Join  |  Login          

Posted by rouj on 9/5/04 10:35pm
Msg #7447

My Signings Are Taking 2- 3 Hours - Is This Normal?

Since I joined Notary Rotary and a couple of singing companies (thanks to all for the advice!), my signings have increased substantially. Since I am trying to do this full time, I try to do 3 signings a day. The problem is that each signing takes from 2 to 3 hours. Is this normal? By the time I print 2 copies of each package (the packages are normally 100-120 pages, plus a copy for the buyer), travel to the signings, conduct the signings and fed ex/UPS the docs from the night before, I'm putting in over 12 hours. During the signing, I explain my role and go over each page or section of pages (ie, the deed) with the borrower and secure their signature or intitials. If it's a husband and wife signing the docs, it seems to take even longer because this may be the first time they are seeing the hud 1 and the final numbers. I had a signing with a husband and wife that started at 8 pm and ended at 11:30 pm! They had a discussion with each other about each and every page. I mentioned at the beginning of the signing and at least 2 times during that they have a 3 day window to resend the loan. This didn't stop them from discussing each and every page of the 120 page document. I love the fact that my business has picked up, but at this pace I'm going to burn out. I would appreciate any pointers on how I can shorten my singings.

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/5/04 11:57pm
Msg #7453

My signings take 45 minutes to an hour. I am not an employee of the title company or lender, it's not my job to explain the loan to the clients. If they ask questions I definitely try to answer them, assuming they're not questions specific to their loan or any dollar amounts. But if they don't ask, I don't offer, I simply hand them a few pages at a time and tell them where to sign or initial.

What I also do is give the borrowers their copy as soon as I get there, then I let them browse it while I'm putting their info in my journal and flipping through my set of docs filling in the applicable notary sections. I'll keep an eye on them while I'm doing this and as soon as they set them aside I'll get started with the signing. If I reach the end of my set of docs while they're still browsing I simply say "let's get started" and that works.

Don't let the borrowers manipulate your time like this. If they are discussing each and every page of the documents YOU need to let them know that your job is simply to get the docs signed and that you don't have the time to sit there while they do this. Of course you want to say this professionally and not like I just worded it Tell them that you have another appointment after theirs and need to be gone in an hour, and if they really really need to read every doc before signing they're going to have to arrange that with the lender and the appointment will have to be rescheduled because you cannot take that amount of time to do so.

By doing things this way, I'd say at least 90% of my signings are completed in an hour or less, sometimes significantly less. Yeah, you're gonna get the occasional pain in the butt and you just have to deal with those on a case by case basis.

Ultimately, you just need to keep your mouth shut as much as possible. If all of your signings are taking that long it's you that's the main problem, not the borrowers, and I'm guessing that you're explaining the documents in way too much detail. You can explain the Deed of Trust like this: "the DOT is the title to the house". You can explain the note: "the note shows the terms of the loan - amount, interest rate, payments, term length". That's really as specific as you should be getting. The less you talk and explain, the faster things will go.

Reply by Roger/OH on 9/6/04 12:02am
Msg #7456

You need to take control of the signing, and advise them upfront of your role as a notary signing agent. You're there to confirm ID and witness signatures as an impartial third party on behalf of your state, and serve as a courier for the return of the docs. You do NOT represent the lender and it's NOT part of your role to give anything other than a brief overview of any given document. You cannot get into the details or answer questions about their rate, terms or any other aspect of their loan. You can usually point out WHAT a number is, but not WHY it's there or HOW it was arrived at. That's between them and their loan officer. I suggest to them that they sit down with a cup of coffee, go through their copy of the docs at their leisure and jot down any questions for their LO. Getting too involved in the docs as an NSA can possibly get into a dangerous area where you may unintentionally say something that could be the unlicensed practice of law, since you were not party to the conversations the borrowers had with their LO. If you tell them something wrong, and the loan has a problem because of what you told them, you have exposure to legal action from the borrowers. Tell that you will leave them a copy of everything they're signing, then begin by doing the RTC and assuring them they have 3 days to review the docs and call their LO with any questions - if they're not happy, they can cancel. Show them the note and especially the payoffs and bottom line of the settlement statement; if these are correct, than most of the other docs should be OK as well. Even with 100 pages, a signing shouldn't take more than about 30 minutes, 45 at the outside. Most smaller packages can be done in about 20 minutes. If a borrower plods along, politely advise them you have other appointments to keep and they may need to reschedule the signing if they insist on reading everything at the table instead of during the 3-day period, AND if the docs are date sensitive, note that rescheduling will result in the docs having to be redrawn to the new date, with possible impacts to their rates/terms. When they realize I'm not from their lender and can't answer their specific questions, things usually move right along. If docs come to you, look at the HUD and if there are funds due, call the borrowers and confirm that they know, so they are not surprised at the table (and also give them time to get a cashier's check if necessary). If there's an issue with the HUD amount, they can clear it up with the LO before you arrive or cancel before you make a trip.

Reply by HisHughness on 9/6/04 12:21am
Msg #7458

Based on the loan packages that I've seen come to Austin from other states, I gather that they don't have to go through the song and dance we do here in Texas to close a loan. I'm am always startled when I hear someone say that a loan closing should take about 30 minutes, 45 max. My typical closing will run right at an hour, and sometimes an hour and a half. I offer the borrowers three options: Sail on through the signing, an explanation for the critical documents, or a brief explanation of all the documents. Almost always, they will choose the first or second option.

I get around the excessively meticulous borrower by telling them, in my confirmation phone call, that the closing should take an hour to an hour and a half. I reinforce that upon my arrival by working into the initial conversation the fact that I have another appointment right after their signing. So far, it has worked quite well.

Reply by Roger/OH on 9/6/04 1:01am
Msg #7459

Just to clarify...

My reference to 30 minutes or so are for the lenders such as DiTech, ABN-Amro, Chase, etc that are Refis. These packages are very standard and almost always contain the same forms. Borrowers already know what to expect from their LO conversations, and all that remains is to sign off on what has already been discussed and agreed upon. Most of the time they just want to sign and go. HELOCS are smaller packages and take about 15 minutes

Reply by BrendaTX on 9/6/04 1:07pm
Msg #7474

Hugh,
I like what you and Julie MI both have to say.

I like yours because I learned about your 3-prong approach (Sailing, Explain Critical Docs, Brief Explanation of All), and I like Julie's because she sounds like me posting under another name , in this situation. (:>)

To Rouj, I'd say - hang in there! It will get better and you will learn techniques that will work for you. (Also, like others have mentioned, in spite of the heat, I dress for my signings in linen suits and always wear a jacket and dress shoes. I stopped wearing dress sandals because I realized that the best way to control the situation was to take full control from every angle and to be strictly business. I try to dress as if I am going to be in a title company doing the signings. I also do not take anything to drink to disccourage them from drinking and being comfy with the situation.)

In spite of my very best efforts, however, I have had a few funky signings lately myself.

(a) A couple who signed very slowly because the wife was a retired elem. school teacher and she literally put a folded piece of paper underneath every space for him to sign, before allowing him to sign even though he was plenty capable. (VERY patient man so I chilled out and was patient as well pretending it was normal so he would not be embarrassed.) 1.5 Hours

(b) A couple with a 14 yr old son who was obviously mentally challenged to a degree. He kept saying to me that he'd like to put a snake in the bed with me while I was asleep. Naturally he was in serious need of attention and had to be acknowledged frequently or it just got crazier. 1 .5 Hours

(c) A couple with a husband who was a valiant and brave man recovering from a stroke and just learning to write his name again. His signature took more than 1 minute for each. That in and of itself was 45 extra minutes, minimum. 1.25 hour because of few questions. I was greatful for the one that the husband asked me right at the beginning because his gaze was unfocused and at first I thought he was highly medicated. His question cleared all that up for me.

(d) An evangelical minister who took me completely through the desert with the Hebrews in between signatures--he knew his stuff, so I actually learned a couple of things, but I did not get to bed until way too late that night. (3 hours)


(I think it's gotta be the moon.)

Comment: I'd say 50% of the refi's I have are those employed in academia. Those were painful for me at first because a true academic will not ask questions and appear not to know ALL there is to know about ALL there is.

I would begin to explain, and they would shush me, but then stall to read what they had before them rather than ask a quick question.

I solved that by acknowledging their education (and infinitely higher intellectual status) in comparison to mine up front, along with the RTC so that they had been acknowledged to be superior to me. It worked like a charm. They immediately smile and say they "doubt that" (that they are more equipped than I am to read the docs and interpret the information for themselves) and they indicate whether I should provide an explanation, if they just want to sign the papers, and they will then ask a couple of quick questions.

Another thing that I have done in two situations, which is not a problem thus far, is to drop off the copy of the docs if it is convenient the day before (if I have them, of course). I have only done this if I detected that there is worry on the part of the Borrower because of perceived poor customer service by the lender--In these cases, the borrower was nearly paranoid about the situation. My effort was appreciated by all concerned.

I call to get permission by the folks that hire me before I offer to do it, then call and ask the Borrower if they want me to do that. With that effort put forth, it was so appreciated by the Borrowers to see what the big mystery of the documents were that it made everything run extremely smooth - in and out in 20 min.

It all depends on your location and schedule, of course--and what the "boss" up the chain says.

Reply by p mcdonald/ ca on 9/6/04 1:16am
Msg #7460

I am fairly new at loan signings...3 months. My first loan signing took about 2 hours. One of the good things about it being my first was that it turned out to be a friend I had not seen for a bit. My second one was 1 1/2 hrs. After that most of my signings never go over the hour. if they do it is never over 1 1/2 hours. I explain to them what I need to explain. I had a couple once that said they wanted to get it done fast as they were in a hurry. I took out the note explained it to them and they were happy with that and started signing away. I was done in 25 mins. it was a re-fi. As the husband said we can sign all this real quick and get you out of here faster or we can go page through page and we can be here for over an hour. He knew about the RTC so it made him comfortable to do it fast. As he put it "I have 3 days to decide whether I will keep these loan or cancel. Why waste my time and your time when I have 3 days to look it all over." Don't we wish they were all like this. He made my day. Theye were my last signing for the evening and I made it to my kids hockey game.

Reply by DOT on 9/8/04 12:46pm
Msg #7549

YOU SHOULD BE GLAD THAT YOU HAVE SOMETHING DOCS TO DO. YOU WILL GET BETTER AS TIME GOES BY. NO ONE CAN HELP YOU DO THIS YOU WILL START GETTING BETTER AFTER YOU GET YOUR OWN TECG DOWN.

Reply by Julie-MI on 9/6/04 8:07am
Msg #7462

If your loan packages are averaging 120 pages, it would appear the majority of your closings are not borrowers with 749 + fico scores. The subprime packages have many more docs than a refi from great credit scores and those internal with the same lender.

I try to make the best use of my time while printing edocs. I don't babysit the printer, I click print and do something productive, or check out the message boards.

Keep THE BORROWERS COPIES IN YOUR BRIEFCASE UNTIL YOU ARE DONE!!!!!! By giving them their copies prior to the closing, you are potentially going to cost yourself a lot of your time. I usually keep their copies UNDER the originals. This way the stack is ENORMOUS and they tend to go a bit quicker. You should see the suprise on their faces, when I announce half way through the stack that they are done!

You must start with the settlement statement and the note. I always tell the borrowers if these two documents are in order, the rest are basically fillers and will become very repetitive.

I tell the borrowers the costs are itemized on page two of the hud and look at the hazard ins. area and property tax area to see if there is an escrow. I show them the bottom line of page two is carried over to page 1. I show them the payoff on the current mortgage and the cash back to them after the recission period.

Then the almighty note. I tell them this is the MOST IMPORTANT document in the entire package. I point out the loan amount, interest rate, (most of mine are adjustable, so I show them on page 2 how long the rate is fixed for and how much it can change on the first change date). Then I show them the area regarding the prepayment penalty--you know the little stipulation the loan officer often neglects to tell them. I believe it is imperitive the borrower know this little tidbit.

After they are done initialing and signing the note, I tell them the rest are standard mortgage docs. For example, we start on the affidavit role, while passing the survey doc, I will say this is to make sure, to the best of you knowledge, that your neighbors pool or fence is not encroaching on your property lines, boom they sign.

I have also dropped the business casual look and have gone back to my conservative banker look which is a collection of conservative navy suits. I sit up straight and keep everything business like. When I went to business casual, the borrowers were more casual and slow. I refuse all offers of drinks or food.

If you are straight with them on the settlement statement and note, they become more comfortable with the rest of the docs.

The post closing part can take time, but I want all of my notary deductions to count and I say I do flawless work so I do make sure the i's are dotted and the t's are crossed. The more you do, the better your technique will get. I promise!

Reply by Loretta Reed on 9/6/04 10:44am
Msg #7467

Hey Rouj,
Sounds like to me you got all of the information you need to make these closings alot faster.
To sum it up;
They should last no longer than 1 to 1/2 hours. A credit line (ditech or chase) should last about 30 minutes.
Go over their HUD (if applicable) and let them know who they are paying off, if anything and what, if anything, they will be getting back.
Go over the NOTE (interest rate, if it is adjustable, and when their first payment is due); what it will be and if they have an escrow for their taxes/insurance.
I always start out with a "hello, my name is __________, how are you doing?" and then follow with a "I've only got ____more closings to go before I get to go home."
They seem to speed it up after that.
It is good to have small talk but I have noticed that talking too much will have you there for 2 or 3 hours. Remember the word KISS, Keep It Simply Stupid, because that is how you will feel if you will let them tell you their life story and ask alot of personal questions.
I always get repeat business because I am to the point and friendly.
After 100 signings, I would eliminate the $50 closings, if I were you.

Reply by sue on 9/6/04 11:33am
Msg #7472

I'm curious about your wardrobe decision. I've actually, perhaps due to summer months, gone more casual. I almost always wear a sleevless shift or a skirt and sweater and on occasion I now wear capris (I don't think I've ever worn them and not received compliments from the women, some even go so far as to touch the hem with the flowered embroidered border). So, were you running into problems or just switched one day and it seemed to work better? Just curious as the fall catalogs are now out and I've got several orders ready to go.

Reply by rouj on 9/6/04 3:14pm
Msg #7478

Thank you, thank you all for your advice! I indeed was doing most things wrong. I was handing them the pages one at a time and waiting for them to sign before handing them the next page!!! My dress code is always business dress - usually my lucky black or blue slacks and a jacket. However, I was making too many friends along the way and chit chatting a lot to relax the buyer (and myself). A couple of the buyers have even said they will stay in touch. But, if I'm to survive and not burn out in this business, I guess I need to cut back on the friendliness. Someone mentioned that the lenders with docs containing 120 pages probably are for buyers/refi's with low credit scores. This helps to explain things. The buyers are usually surprised by all of the fees (expecially brokerage fees) and the number of pages they must sign. Again thank you one and all for the advice. Now I know what to do.

Reply by OTice on 9/14/04 1:06pm
Msg #7916

Hi Rouj, Here is the senerio that I use. "Good day, Mr & Mrs Borrower. Let me first explain what I am. I am a notary signing agent. I am here to witness your signature and confirm that you are who you say you are. I will be showing you where to sign or initial and this process takes about 40 mins. As a notary, I am not allowed to tell you how, when, or why. I can usually show you where but it your Loan Officer who must answer any question in the next three working days. During this time if there is anything you can not come to agreement on with your Loan Office you may sign the "Three Day Right to Cancel" and mail it in and that will stop this transaction. When we get to the Hud settlement and the Note you will be able to check out those numbers and write down any question you want to ask your loan officer. You are receiving an exact duplicate of everything you are signing that you may go over in detail after I leave."

Never let the borrower control the signing. When I greet them at the door, I immediately ask where the kitchen or dining room table is. Some will try to sit you down in the living room at the coffee table. Let this be if nothing else is available, it is very hard on everyones back.

Also before going to the signing I find the Hud settlement and Note, I place a post it sticking out so I can let them see those two documents first. If they refuse to sign, this is where they are going to do it. Don't waste you time on a package that is not acceptable in the first place.

Happy Signing!!! Orvil

Reply by Elizabeth_CA on 9/14/04 1:13pm
Msg #7918

After I review the package, I call the borrowers again and let them know the amount due to them (or from them) on the HUD-1. If they do not agree, I have them call the LO. No reason for me to meet with them if they are not going to sign. And to further be proactive - I confirm the title and sometimes the spelling of their names.

Reply by Julie-MI on 9/6/04 7:32pm
Msg #7484

I'll tell you why I switched. On a warm day this past April, I had on a sleevless top with black slacks. We sat at the table, and I looked to my right, there was a big mirror and I was horrified at my posture!!!!!!!!!

I had a flashback to my title company days and knew I would never wear this attire to the office. Really no rhyme or reason, but I FEEL more professional and I think the borrowers take me more seriously and are not as casual with the transaction or the distractions, such as answering the telephone, digging out snacks for the kids--even the children get a que not to fool around as much (unless I'm delusional). I don't want the borrowers to be comfortable, I want their undivided attention, so I can move on to the next appointment or get home to my family.

Reply by Ali-IL on 9/6/04 7:43pm
Msg #7485

I hand out one doc at a time for signature. so, if you hand out a couple at a time for signing, do you point at where they should sign? Or, do you have signing area initialed with maybe a sticky arrow?

Reply by CaliNotary on 9/6/04 9:13pm
Msg #7487

Most of the documents are clearly marked where they should be signed. When I give several docs to a borrower at once I just say something like "sign each one at the bottom", "initial the first and third page, sign the fourth", "sign the first and last page only" etc. I would never waste my time going through the docs puting flags where they need to sign, most people have no problem figuring out where to sign. And if they miss anything I always catch it when I'm double checking at the end, so it's not a huge deal if they're not terribly accurate.

Reply by Pattijay on 9/9/04 12:47am
Msg #7571

Gosh, be professional, explain the "right to cancel" and move it along. Don't rush but explain you have more appts.