Posted by VA_Notary on 4/30/05 12:49pm
Msg #35070
Monday Signing but the Mortgage Company wants Saturday dated
Hello all
Need some help here. I got a call for an early monday signing. The closing was due today but due to some issues it did not. Now the package has today's date, i.e., April 30/2005 but the the signing is going to be done on Monday and the Mortgage Co wants it dated for April 30th. Should I accept the signing b/c I know its not legal.
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Reply by Anonymous on 4/30/05 12:53pm
Msg #35071
Nope! Remember YOUR ethics.
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Reply by NY_Notary on 4/30/05 12:53pm
Msg #35072
Protect yourself FIRST!
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Reply by ERNA_CA on 4/30/05 12:53pm
Msg #35073
I would never backdate anything I notarize, ever.
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Reply by Roger/OH on 4/30/05 12:54pm
Msg #35074
Absolutely illegal to backdate; DON'T DO IT!! Not worth losing your commission.
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Reply by Anonymous on 4/30/05 12:55pm
Msg #35076
It's unanimous...do you feel better knowing having all this support?
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Reply by Dave_CA on 4/30/05 12:55pm
Msg #35075
b/c I know its not legal. Asked and answered.
You state that you know it is not legal so I believe you have answered your own question.
Why would you even consider jeopardizing your commission?
Please don't do this.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/30/05 1:15pm
Msg #35082
Ok - my 2 cents worth.
I would do the signing, but just make sure the notarizations and anything I dated was for the correct date, the actual date of the signing.
How can they argue with you or refuse to pay you for acting legally
By accepting the signing and doing it legally, you have prevented another notary for acting illgally
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Reply by Hampton/CA on 4/30/05 1:42pm
Msg #35090
It can get a little complicated
I agree with Sylvia, but there are some problem areas.
#1. The borrower can date it whatever date he likes. It is not my concern. I just must date my notarizations with the actual date.
#2. When it comes to the RTC, the date should be the date they receive documents. But I'll bet you a notary commission that the lender will want the RTC backdated. So, as an SA, how do I instruct the borrower to date the RTC, since I'm not going to do it with the wrong date?
#3. I can't notarize a document that I know to be false. If the document is signed and a date entered "effective on ____", I can notarize that. But if the signer signs his name and enters a date which represents the date signed that is different than the actual date, I know this to be incorrect and thus should not notarize.
With all these little troublesome issues associated with dates, I just say no. That way, I have no decisions to make and no stress.
However, I would be very interested on others opinion on this. I learned quite some time ago that I am not an all-knowing expert. Mostly.
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Reply by PAW_Fl on 4/30/05 9:02pm
Msg #35170
Re: It can get a little complicated
>>> #2. When it comes to the RTC, the date should be the date they receive documents. But I'll bet you a notary commission that the lender will want the RTC backdated. So, as an SA, how do I instruct the borrower to date the RTC, since I'm not going to do it with the wrong date? <<<
Technically, the date makes little difference since the premise is that the 3-day clock starts ticking on the latest of the three events listed in the first section of the notice. And one of those events is receiving the disclosures. So, even if the date in item 1 is some date in the past, the date you provide the borrowers with their documents (usually the date they sign them), is when the rescission period begins.
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Reply by sue on 4/30/05 3:34pm
Msg #35123
I disagree. When a borrower tells me at the table to put the wrong date (happens VERY seldom) I tell them to do whatever the LO told them to do. I then put the correct date for my purposes. If I am told up front I decline the order. They are absolutely going to refuse to pay you for acting legally because that wasn't what your instructions were. I also don't hold any water to anyone taking them to court and the judge awarding the notayr their fees (although I think the notary would win). Notaries just don't sue their clients as a general rule as we can see by the people asking continually how to collect. You are not going to stop another notary - they are just going to reprint the package and have someone else go get it signed. This practice will NEVER stop as it is widespread and is very commonplace in this industry, long before signing agents ever come about.
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Reply by Barry on 4/30/05 10:17pm
Msg #35182
All the more reason why it must be done correctly. Just because another notary might backdate it does not mean than anyone else should.
The lending institutions are monitored by the federal government. It takes only one report and the proof of written instructions to the feds to shut them down while they are investigated for violating federal law and conspiring to violate federal law.
NEVER NEVER NEVER violate the law, Do only what is legal, and you will avoid trouble!!!
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Reply by DellaCa on 4/30/05 1:18pm
Msg #35083
I think you answered your own question.
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Reply by Jon on 4/30/05 2:31pm
Msg #35115
Re: Monday Signing but the Mortgage Company wants Saturday d
Why do you even ask?!?!?!?
Do the signing and use the date they want you to. If the fact that it is illegal is not enough to answer your question, then I say go for it. You obviously need or want the money and are looking for someone to back you up. GO FOR IT!!! Just remember that it is your comission on the line, not mine.
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Reply by Barry on 4/30/05 10:19pm
Msg #35183
Re: Monday Signing but the Mortgage Company wants Saturday d
Why be sarcastic and critical to give advice? If you don't like the question and have not a pleasant tone to answer, then maybe you should not.
Give constructive advice if any at all, and be polite. It goes a long way, and it will come back to you tenfold.
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Reply by Jon on 5/1/05 1:00am
Msg #35204
Re: Monday Signing but the Mortgage Company wants Saturday d
This is a question that should NEVER have to be asked. I know it's illegal, should I do it? I'm sorry if you don't like my response, but as a notary I find the question to be totally inappropriate. Why would anyone ask if it is ok to do something illegal?
Think about it for a minute, I have the opportunity to steal $20,000 from my employer and most likely I won't get caught, should I do it? I mean come on!! As notaries we are to have "honesty, credibility, truthfulness, and INTEGRITY"(at least in Ca, it is spelled out in our statutes). When questions like this come up, people need to take a good look at why they are asking the question. The poster didn't need advice, they already knew the answer. I was greatly offended that a fellow notary would have such a hard time determining if it is ok to BREAK the law.
Perhaps if you don't like the "tone" of my answer, you should not respond to it, take your own advice.
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Reply by Paul/MD on 4/30/05 4:12pm
Msg #35131
Something Very Similar
I went to a closing that the Title Company said was very "Time Sensitive" and they needed it signed by the end of he day. OK, no problems... I get to the home, the borrower sees the figures on the HUD and says "No way".... the deal is cancelled. I call the Title Company and speak with the Loan Officer - had the borrower do the same.
The next day I receive a conference call from the Borrower, Title Company, Loan Officer and I. The Loan Officer starts out by asking me if I wouldgo back to the Borrower for the signing. I said "no problems". Then the LO says can I "pretend" that "today is yesterday when signing". I knew exactly that he wanted me to backdate. I told all of them that I have conference call capability and that I wanted to call the Maryland Secretary of State while they were online and for them all to give there names and who they represent etc... and see if they will allow "BACKDATING". Let me tell you....... that call end so darn quickly!!!
The Title Company called back a few mins later and said they would prepare new docs for me to go out as if it were a new signing. I politely agreed.
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Reply by Hank on 4/30/05 4:23pm
Msg #35132
I received that same call today for a signing Monday. The guy told me he already had the documents and they were dated for today. I told him that I could not use today's date and he me if I was sure. He finally stated that he would get new documents and call me back. I guess he is still shopping around.
Hank-VA
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Reply by VA_Notary on 4/30/05 7:18pm
Msg #35155
OK Ok Ok... I did not decieve my community. He called back and said that the Lender is preparing new docs and the signing will be done accordingly.
And Jon please keep in mind this signing was not paying me even my 1 month's salary... why would I gamble my comission for it????
But thanks everybody. I really appreciate the feed back...
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Reply by Jon on 5/1/05 1:05am
Msg #35205
Re: Monday Signing but the Mortgage Company wants Saturday d
VA said
"And Jon please keep in mind this signing was not paying me even my 1 month's salary... why would I gamble my comission for it????"
I agree, I just have a hard time understanding why the question needs to be asked in the first place. You obviously know it's wrong, so why the need to ask??? My "sarcastic" answer was to make you think about what you were asking.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 5/1/05 9:37pm
Msg #35218
Re: Monday Signing but the Mortgage Company wants Saturday d
Jon, this reminds me of a story I once heard.
Harry Truman used to walk into the White House dining room and say to Bess before an important state dinner "Is my shirt dirty?" Mrs Truman would say "Harry, if you have to ask, it probably is"
If you have to ask if something is illegal, it probably is.
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Reply by Barry on 4/30/05 10:10pm
Msg #35179
NEVER NEVER NEVER violate the notary law. The either accept Monday as the signing date, print new documents, or get someone else! Is it worth losing the notary commission, reputation, lawsuit?
NEVER NEVER NEVER
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