Posted by CaliNotary on 4/1/06 4:00pm
Msg #110287

For those who say this board is meaner than the others

I rarely read the GMN board, but was just looking at it and found this posting:

This board needs to be renamed.......................

.........."SLICE & DICE, MEALS IN 5 SECONDS OR LESS"

'cause everyone seems to get-off on cutting people down and bashing, name calling...no one really tries to help another, just brag on how much better they have or are doing it; are you all so insecure that you are afraid to really help someone or mentor a 'newbie'?

*****************************

I guess it's not just a notaryrotary thing after all.

Reply by patricia on 4/1/06 4:04pm
Msg #110288

The new people have the same sense of entitlement over there as they do here. Boy do they get nasty when they dont get what they want!

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/1/06 4:13pm
Msg #110289

It's too funny

It's been ages since I've looked at that board, but I'm going through the messages and it is EXACTLY like it is on this board. Where do these people get off saying that we're so evil over here compared to the others?

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 4/1/06 4:49pm
Msg #110294

Re: It's too funny

What do people expect? This is a place for professional people. Obviously if someone comes on the forum with bogus information and exhibits only an eighth grade education, of course they will be the center of criticism.

This behavior is common place in ANY professional atmosphere. No one is perfect, and at times everyone will be “bashed”. The only thing I can suggest to people is that if they can’t take it, then they shouldn’t be posting publicly.

A little effort goes a long way, and it’s time some people learn that.

Reply by Drakester_IA on 4/1/06 5:32pm
Msg #110302

Re: "It's too funny" or "Not too funny"

You guys are both, right and wrong.
when you are new to an industry then you come across as having an eighth grade education. Especially in this type of business where there is no formal education for it. You read so many book and take so many test yet some of the information you are getting is wrong to begin with, yet for that particular test your wrong answer was right. HMMM go figure.
Then you come on here feeling like you are on top of the world and know it all cause you aced your wrong test and lo and behold you have an eighth grade education. This does happen cause there are serveral of these sample questions in the NNA cert book.
So after you feel like you are on top of the world you come to these sight and get slammed for being a dumb a$$. I can appreciate you Notaries that have been here since the beginning of the industry and hear the same comments and questions over and over and over ETC....... but how do we newbees learn. There are some who take great offence to getting slammed and some that just take it in strides. But at some point we all tend to want to get defensive.

Calinotary I hope you read this cause I don't want you to feel I am talking negative about you...
Calinotary you reminde me of the show House. Smart as hell when it comes to the industry but have no patience or tolerance for the slightest error. No you are not mean this SITE is not mean but some people have no tolerance for verbal abuse as you have no tolerance for error.

it is all a vicious circle

Reply by John_NorCal on 4/1/06 5:57pm
Msg #110307

Re: "It's too funny" or "Not too funny"

I wouldn't say that people on this board have no tolerance for error. After all, everyone makes a mistake now and then. Calinotary will even admit to one or two! People have no tolerance for the ones who ask the most basic of questions, answers that one should know in order to get their commission. Then there are others who seem to want everything handed to them without any effort on their part. If they would only make the effort by reading messages past and present they will learn so much. Then there are others, new and otherwise, who venture opinions and bad advice and stick to it even after being corrected by notaries in their own home state. Notaries who know the laws and regulations far better than the original poster.
So, as far as this board being cruel and unforgiving, I don't think so. Intolerant of lazy, full of themselves horses patooies? You got that right!

Reply by Drakester_IA on 4/1/06 6:02pm
Msg #110309

Re: "It's too funny" or "Not too funny"

exactly what I said, and I will reiterate myself by saying with no formal education for this industries posting and asking IS the only way to learn, as for the know-it-alls that don't know anything, I stand by you and every other horses patooy in this form

Reply by Drakester_IA on 4/1/06 6:11pm
Msg #110313

Re: above statement re-written

Exactly what I said, and I will reiterate myself by saying without formal education and testing (in most states) for this industry, posting and asking questions is the only way to learn. As for the know-it-alls that don't know Jack S@#* I stand by you and every other horses patooy in this forum

Reply by lulu on 4/1/06 6:16pm
Msg #110315

Re: "It's too funny" or "Not too funny"

I will agree that one needs to be resourceful and will become a very good signing agent if they search for the information by reading different sites and postings but I hate the thought that we cannot politely answer basic questions and/or direct them to where they may find their answers. I am a very independent person who doesn't like to ask for a lot of help. I go and find my answers by reading. If I get stumped and can't find my answer then I may find someone to ask.
However, I live by the 'no question is a dumb question' and will NEVER be other than nice and helpful to anyone who asks for help. I will, however, lead them in the manner of 'If you give a man a fish you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish you feed him for life'.

Reply by Pamela on 4/1/06 7:40pm
Msg #110323

Lulu: You are 100% Correct! n/m

Reply by Pamela on 4/1/06 8:08pm
Msg #110330

Korey Humphreys

"REAL" PROFESSIONAL PEOPLE DO NOT BERATE OR BELITTLE THEIR PEERS!

Pam

Reply by Charm_AL on 4/1/06 8:29pm
Msg #110333

Re: Korey Humphreys

If may interject here...We all strive to be professionals when we are on a signing, dealing with a SS or a TC. We try to be professional when we must collect, or listen to a company yell about a situation, not necessarily our fault.
We try to maintain professionalism when we must sit in a home that should be condemned or at the very least closed by the Health Dept.
We maintain professionalism by knowing and practicing our state laws and practicing proper industry law in the client's home.
We strive to be professional while a borrower is being difficult, or we can't find someone with an answer at 9pm...an hour or so from where we live.

We try to maintain professionalism here at out 'water cooler' on the internet highway where we meet many types of personalities. Just like at an office you will have dislikes, disagreements, catty discussion and gossip.
If you were the office manager and told the hiree that there was a manual for anything they wanted to know, by simply pressing the orange button....have you seen the Staples 'easy button'? Same concept, and if it wasn't in there after due diligence, then ask it.

If your office turnover was everyday x 10 and the new people just barged into your office asking you a very basic and need to know for this industry, you'd go postal. Some notaries with years of experience are being flooded out with all the troops of newbies churned out daily, putting 1,000 notaries within 20 miles of you - the ones who say "train me, give me, answer me"...
Yes, there are the blunt, rude, mean, less than charming that offend....but just because this is a notary forum in Outer Space does not mean it's going to be some fantasy sugar and spice place where everyone can pretend professional is God like.

And another thing, YES there are some out here that we would wager, do not have enough education to read, comprehend, fend, or study and research. Yes, there are a lot of lazy and ungrateful notaries that expect the experience to be read to them like a bed time story.

ok, I'm done

Reply by Pamela on 4/2/06 4:25am
Msg #110371

Charm AL

Charm,

Well, we "newbies" WERE promised the "fantasy sugar"! Yep! Fantasy Sugar by the tons!

Well, we certainly have had enough of the spice. . . ! ("smile"

But Yes, I understand. The realities of the notary world needs to be told in these signing agent classes, so that "newbies" could be better informed. Unfortunately, it's not!

By the way, I used to think that notaries were mild-mannered, bookkeeping types, but that was BEFORE reading the boards! ("smile".

Blessings!

Pam

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/2/06 12:40pm
Msg #110396

Putting Honeycombs in their Ears Perhaps? Pamela... long

**Well, we "newbies" WERE promised the "fantasy sugar"! Yep! Fantasy Sugar by the tons!**

This info about the promises makes me stop and think...and this is not directed at you, but just out here because it crossed my mind. I wonder how much of the truth is actually being given in those classes but the notary is not willing to hear some of the less compelling details. Personally I think they are using honeycombs to plug their ears and keep it like "sugar." No negative or serious details can get through the honeycomb. Just more honey.

I have not given this much thought before but I have a lady I mentored through her new signing business at the end of last year. She's turned out to be a wonderful friend who has paid me back 25 times by helping me find some work to bid on to fill in the gaps left by the interest rate rise. (Cyber-assistant, more inspection companies, and transcription type work.)

Anyway...This is how our story started. Janie found out about the SA business and called me. In our first conversation, I told her that it was going to slow down so much by January that she'd want to not put out much money on this gig or she might feel as if it was an expensive boondoggle for a few months when the books and briefcase sat silent in the corner.

I explained how one should go to the courthouse and look up the filings and the number of them. This was to say that the market info she needed was in black and white...go see what's available in the way of loans. Then, see what the saturation was in her area by checking the NR type boards.

It seemed like she did not take into account my explanation about higher interest rates - less loans - less notary work. I told her that it would take her 18 months to build a business - probably 24 months. She told me to pause the speech a minute while she broke off another piece of honeycomb and stuck it in her ears. And all she told me when we talked was "teach me."

Well, I liked her...I knew she was learning her notary rules so I thought it over and I told her that I'd be her tutor and I wanted her to send every question that went across her brain. I did tell her: I will probably use this exchange to give me topics for writing articles in my newletter, or to publish in an eBook. I saw that the slower days were coming for Texas for awhile before they picked back up after the reverse mortgage bill passed so I might just use her questions as an outline for a FAQs book for beginners...or to do some one on one tutoring for a fee to supplement my income. She still did not hear me.


Though I warned her against spending a good deal of money up front, she took the Certified NSA course and test. She invested in equipment... started the process of signing up with SSs. She researched each one carefully on BBB and the forums. It was pretty exhausting to her she said. I think at the end of a week she had registered with only six signing companies. She was still a trooper and hung in there doing her copious research on each company. I told her to use the NR list (she is a premium member) but I don't think she ever "heard" me. One thing I like about this gal is that she is independent and headstrong like me. "I'll do it my way!" is definitely my friend Janie.

In the a month of intensive email and phone discussion she and I emailed back and forth over 100 times. In addition, I used a set of sample docs I located online to go over with her how I present the docs.

I was pretty sure her tolerance of frustration might be a little low for this kind of work because I felt she would like more control over certain things...I tried to tell her about the hours, the hurry up, the rushing, the mean people, the faxing back, splitting packages, etc.

Once I accepted that would not "hear" the negative, I put my heart into it and acted as if it would be nothing but a positive experience for her.

Sure enough, her low frustration tolerance was not very yielding. She said she was not going to continue to sign up with SSs because she did not "trust" them to pay her and she did not want to have to collect.

She had ads here and the other places but she did not have any interest in working for SSs no matter how much I explained you HAVE to start there in today's market vs. # of notaries. But why? You do the exact same thing for lenders and title companies - why work for people who take a cut? (Good question, and as I started to answer I saw her do it again. She put more sticky honeycomb in her ears because she did not want the answer I was giving her, I guess.)

Her first signing came five months after she and I began emailing back and forth. As luck would have it, it was a Lousianna eDoc / she was *offered* a $225.00 fee. She called me ahead of the signing and I went over the documents with her page by page. She did it, returned it the same day, and got paid within a week. Now...even with that sweet bit of beginner's luck, Janie told me "Girl you have GOT to be kidding me that anybody would do that much work for any less that $150? Tell me this is NOT what some people accept $50 for!" ($50 x 2 in this case) Now, get this...Janie went back to this title company and told them that she realized there was a piggy back so that would have to be another $50. She got $275 for a first and second and it was local. That is a fairly good fee for a first time out deal.

No matter what I had told her about the tedious work involved to set yourself up, plus the marketing you have to do, she patiently took it in, but I feel sure she had plugged her ears 90% of the time. Understandably she apparently believed more in what she saw on the NNA website and the potential in others states...she could not believe me that this was not more lucrative than it is. She *wanted* to see all the positives and none of the negatives.

For instance, the "marketing" thing did not appeal to her at all. So, she did not market and she did not get any assignments for five months. She has not had a second assignment because she does not care to do all this work we do for so little! She realizes her first job was pretty lucrative for a new newbie.

With that in mind, she thinks the NSA gig is too much for too little and she is not really interested in the work and marketing curve. She definitely has regrets about it. However, no way I will say "Janie, don't you remember me telling you how dry it was going to be for awhile?" I like our friendship too much. She did not WANT to hear me so she did not.

Fortunately for me, she also was happy to get into the info I shared with her on inspections and she has gotten herself a nice little start of an inspection business going. In return, she sends me every lead that she runs into. It's awesome having this friendly help. I am trying to encourage her to write up how she has such good luck finding and getting some pretty good WAH opportunities. Janie says, "Oh, but I do not like to write!"

I whispered my reply to her...Fine Janie, I will write it myself using all of your leads. I will profit from it, is that okay with you?? No problem? Good...I did not hear a response so I will bet you mean I should do what ever I have a whim to do with your research. Thank you!

Reply by Pamela on 4/2/06 2:05pm
Msg #110402

Brenda Tx! Good Afternoon!

Brenda, Good Afternoon!


I had not heard of the title "signing agent" until I went to the one day class to be a Notary.
It was here that I was first introduced to the term "loan signing agent". At the beginning, she asked who all wanted to be a signing agent. Out of approximately 100 students, I was the only one who did not raise my hand. When she quoted $125, $250 etc. . . per hour or assignment, I quickly took an interest and promptly raised my hand!

It was this same instructor who taught the signing class. We learned the pros of the industry, but honestly, we were never told that the market was flooded with notaries etc. . . Of course we were informed, that hard work and long hours were the key to success, as with any business. But that opportunity to make great money was there!

She even gave an example of a man she personally knew who was making $30,000 per month working seven days a week, 24/7! Although, these very long hours, and seven-days-a- week work schedule, was not for me, I thought that I could still make a decent living with approximately $10,000 or so per month (Since that time, I have met a few notaries who stated that, at one time, they were making this amount or more each month!).

I took this class in 2004. Perhaps things were different then. Unfortunately I was not able to enter the loan signing business until now! Yet, this same teacher still teaches signing classes twice weekly ($99.00 plus material fees), to about 100 students (per class), as well as the notary course (now, she IS making money)!

Now regarding "newbies".

You are a GREAT example of a mentor. You had the foresight to help a "newbie" who in turn, helped you! I would love to have someone helping me, the way you helped your new friend!

It seems that some of the experience notaries are threatened by the "newbies", but change (good or bad) is a part of life!

By the way, I want to Thank You for your responses! I have never requested that any reply be "sugar coated' (as some notaries think), just courteous and professional!

Yes, I have advertised, signed-up with many signing companies (about 150 so far and many more to go) and have listed my profile in many directories!

Again, I think that You are a Very Caring person to have taken someone under your wings like that!

And, keep me updated on your newsletters and e-book! Sounds interesting!

Have a Blessed Day!

Pam

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/2/06 2:39pm
Msg #110408

Re: Brenda Tx! Good Afternoon!

"It seems that some of the experience notaries are threatened by the "newbies", but change (good or bad) is a part of life! "

My god Pam, are you going to whine about this in every single message you post on here? Your smug little attitude has already ensured that I'll never give you any help on this board and I'm sure that there are others that feel the same way.

Reply by Pamela on 4/2/06 2:59pm
Msg #110414

CaliNotary! Are You Going to Contine to Stalk My Posts? n/m

Reply by Sign/SealCO on 4/2/06 10:21pm
Msg #110476

Re: Pam, the NNA lied to you the same as they did

countless hundreds before you. So what?

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 4/1/06 8:47pm
Msg #110334

Re: Korey Humphreys

No but we always set them straight no matter how harsh the reality is.

Reply by Pamela on 4/1/06 8:01pm
Msg #110329

Patricia

Patricia,

I am a (somewhat) "newbie" and have never felt the "sense of entitlement".
In the business world, I have trained others and have always responded with words of encouragement, no matter how often the same question or questions were asked.

Because loan signing is new to me (as well as many others), it was the thought that we, the "newbies" would be warmly welcomed with open arms, by the experience notaries! Unfortunately, this isn't true!

A "newbie" can ask a question and receive several different responses. Somtimes the responses will be friendly and informative, at other times they will be hostile and rude! And yet again, the replies may not even be related to the original question!

I find it to be an air-of-arrogance, when some of the experienced notaries take it upon themselves, to look down upon all notaries, as having an "eight grade education"
(although I can assure you, than some eight graders are very well educated).

Just because one is more experienced, does not mean that one is better!

Pam

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 4/1/06 11:41pm
Msg #110353

Air-of-arrogance, sense of entitlement

It is really very difficult to be warmly welcome with open arms to your potential competition when after a many years of hard work you now find the market flooded with new notaries who just KNOW that their going to "make it" if you will only answer all their questions, mentor them, let them go on signings with you to see how its done, want a list of your title companies (because everyone knows they pay better than SS and they need to make money), etc. These are the same ones who come on the board and some of the first words out of their mouth is "our instructor told us to come on this board and ask questions and we could get the answers. Can't tell you how many times some newbie has decided that the way to make it quick in this business is to become certified and will come on the board and post the actual test questions wanting someone to give them the answers. Because of the flood of new people a lot of us have seen our income deminish by 30 - 50% even with our constant marketing efforts. Now, not all of this is because of the flood of new notaries but also because the REFINANCE boom has ended. Now you have more notaries chasing less business. And because we aren't willing to give you the store, we're mean, hateful, forgot what it's like to be new, etc, etc. adnauseum. This is a profession and most of all a BUSINESS. In fact, I find it hard to believe that any other business that you want to go into you'd find as many people willing to help you, their competion, as there is in this one. What you perceive as an air-of-arrogance is probably again weariness of having the same questions asked time and again and you know the person hasn't read a single message on the board before asking and it was asked only two or three threads below their posting. And yes, we've seen a LOT of "sense of entitlement" displayed here. Also some people will sugar coat their response and others use a jack hammer, but one needs to read for the content and not necessarily for the delivery. If you can't develop a thick hide, this definitely is not the business for you. This may sound harsh, but it is reality. (pardon any spelling errors - too late)

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 4/2/06 12:16am
Msg #110356

I agree completely! And another thing...

Has anyone read the entire thread of 33325 lately??? I went back and read it from start to finish the other day and I was taken aback at the amount of priceless information in one little section. I don't know if it is the right answer to give it so freely to everyone who... how did Dorothy say it so perfectly... ***and you know the person hasn't read a single message on the board before asking and it was asked only two or three threads below their posting***

All I know is this... I hope my new competition NEVER sees that thread!!!!!!! And I'm just being honest!

Maybe we give a little too much away for free here... maybe if they have the ability to find the thread (it wouldn't be hard!!) then they deserve to read the thread.

Reply by Pamela on 4/2/06 1:55am
Msg #110365

Dorothy_MI, Re: Air-of-arrogance, sense of entitlement

Dorothy,

I began reading the boards three months ago. When I began to ask questions you were one of the first experienced notaries to come to my assistance. I Appreciate this Very Much! I noticed that whenever someone new comes on, you remain steadfast and will still help them, although the same question may have neen asked a dozen times by different notaries.
And YOU HAVE NEVER BELITTLED ANYONE!

Yes! I learned quickly to research a question BEFORE asking (I've seen other "newbies" bashed by other experienced agents for not doing so).

"Newbies" like anything else, comes in all shapes, sizes and experiences! Some are better prepared than others. Some will become excellent signing agents. Still others, will be asking the same questions a year from now (if their commssion has not been taken away)!

I apologize but I did not know how difficult it is for the experienced notaries with the influx of all the "Newbies".

Here's a little information of my background. I received my notary commission two years ago. However, I rarely notarized anything. I wanted to be a notary because I was also going to be a real estate agent (the real estate exam was successfully passed October, 2004) and thought that it would help me in the profession (for which I am now a licensed real estate agent).

The day I went to the notary class, the instructor asked, "Who also wants to be a loan signing agent?" There must have been about a hundred students! Literally everyone, but me, raised their hands. Then she asked, "Who wants to make $125 to $250 ($300) dollars a hour?" I QUICKLY raised my hand!

When I took the Certified signing agent class, taught by this same instructor, she made it seem so Very, Very easy! She even stated that within a year, we could be making $30,000 a month, if we worked hard enough (That she actually knew a notary who made that much money, each month!)!

I had also begin to research the field, and just about everything I read, stated that this was a very lucrative business to be in. The NNA stated (as it does now), that the entry level is $50,000 to $100,000!

Please don't blame the "newbies" for being misinformed! There are many instructors actively teaching that this is the "dream profession"! And that experienced notaries are just waiting to help us, with open arms, and a smile on their face!

One of the quickest ways to burst a "newbies" bubble, is to have him or her ask a long-time repeated question! POP!

Another surefire way, is to read these boards and discover, how Very difficult the profession can be! POP! POP!

And the quickest way is to be downgraded by your peers ! POP! POP! POP!
However, many of the "hostile" notaries seem to delight in name calling or talking at someone instead of talking to them!

Everyone doesn't have a thick skin! Some "newbies" want (and need) to be nurtured and "mothered" until they get their bearings! Other "newbies' want to strike out and attack!
If "newbies" were not getting emotionally hurt by the replies received, they would not be
posting these topics! Not that "newbies" are asking for a "sugar-coated" response, it's just that they (we) are asking for a "respectful" response!

However, I for one, enjoy a good debate (and can hold my own) but I dislike the name calling and "bashing". I also dislike, when a question is asked, and some of the experienced notaries do not read the entire message, and then reply to something totally different!

Also, each "newbie" is an individual person! Yet, we are all grouped beneath the same "newbie" umbrella!

Again, I THANK YOU, as your replies have always been most professional and courteous!

Pam

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 4/2/06 12:55am
Msg #110360

To Patricia

***Just because one is more experienced, does not mean that one is better!***

And... just because one is experienced doesn't mean that they have to give away the information they learned FROM EXPERIENCE just because you asked.

We are here to help you with a specific problem or question or share info on good and bad companies and share expereinces... NOT... to groom you and teach you everything we know!!!

Reply by Pamela on 4/2/06 3:15am
Msg #110368

Angelina, AZ

Angelina,

I really do not understand your thinking! In my old profession, my manager (upper-level)groomed me and took me under her wings! I learned a great deal from her.

I also trained other new people and it didn't bother me.

The loan signing industry is huge! The population of homeownership is huge (as well as defaults)! There is room for everyone!

When (and if ) a "newbie" reads the entire board (and other boards as well), he or she is learning! Your information on good and bad companies, on shared experiences (etc. . .) are all teaching tools!

In my opinion, these boards are also about networking.

However, from what I have gathered by reading your post (and others), some of the experienced notaries, on this board, feel threatened by all these new notaries. But you shouldn't be. Time will tell! As in any profession, some of the "newbies" will leave the profession, when the going gets rough!

Take Care!

Pam

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 4/2/06 11:27am
Msg #110394

Pamela...

In your "Old profession" were you salaried or hourly? Either way your boss who mentored you had nothing to lose by passing info and experience on. If, however, he were self employed and you were his competition, I assure you, he/she would not give you the keys to the business and let you take income from his/her wallet.

And on the subject of newbies...take a look a couple of posts down and see one who wants to know how much to charge for a 'notarization'....what the 7734 did that person do with the Notary booklet that came with their commission ?? If one does not take the opportunity to self educate when given the material to read, why do they think it is OUR obligation to spoon feed them? Is it any wonder that experienced Notaries lose it with noobies??

Reply by CaliNotary on 4/3/06 12:42am
Msg #110483

Re: Angelina, AZ

"I really do not understand your thinking! In my old profession, my manager (upper-level)groomed me and took me under her wings! I learned a great deal from her."

This pretty much says it all right here.

If Pamela is too dumb to see the clear difference between the manager of a company being paid by the company to train a new employee of the company to do work which will financially benefit the company, and a self employed person training somebody with no financial compensation to do a job that could result in detriment to the business of the self employed person, what's the use in trying to show her the idiocy of her logic?

Take care that you don't strain your neck while you're sticking your head back up your butt Pam, those can really hurt. God Bless!