Posted by Kenneth A Edelstein on 7/5/06 9:32pm
Msg #131005

FIGHTING BLACKLISTING - HOW TO PIN THE TAIL ON THE DONKEY

I personally have been threatened with "blacklisting" as have others - BUT - there is hope for the future. A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT is the answer. In speaking with my attorney it became very obvious that a single notary would not easily sue the blacklister. BUT, a BUNCH of notaries can and DO so with ease; and most importantly, RESULTS. Attorneys are FAR more willing to accept CLASS ACTION lawsuits where they represent (dozens to hundreds) of paintiffs. The legal fees (from the settlement) become very attractive, and we get REAL action!! When a blacklist is distributed that leaves the sender VERY liable. WE talk to dozens of schedulers (the ones who would be receiving any blacklists) - with our frequently close personal relationships, surely some of us can prevail on schedulers to send any such list (if it really exists?) to one of us. They probably would have fax headers, letterheads, or email "headers" - something useful in court to "pin the tail on the donkey". If the list was totally anonymous, would anybody take it seriously? A few such lists, appropriately documented, could be used to as primary evidence against the issuier. It gets even more interesting when the "list" crosses state lines !!

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 7/5/06 9:58pm
Msg #131010

In my 4 + years of experience, I have never seen this elusive blacklist. I honestly dont think one exists. I know I have my own personal blacklisted notaries (that I dont and wont publicly display). However, I have been known to forwarn colleagues of issues that I have had with certain notaries so they dont have the same experience. I have also been known to promote business for the notaries that deserve the referrals.

In all honesty, if I were to receive a copy of a so-called blacklist, I wouldnt hold much validity to it anyway.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 7/5/06 10:02pm
Msg #131012

sorry forgot something...

Besides...whats one mans blacklist may not be anothers..just like these no-lists that you guys have on here...Although most SS's that are on the list probably deserve to be there but I am certain that there are a handful that may or may not be deserving of the no-no

Reply by MichiganAl on 7/5/06 10:01pm
Msg #131011

Blacklists and the Loch Ness Monster. Any proof of either?

Hey, I'm on your side. That e-mail was wrong, wrong, wrong. But do we have any proof that a blacklist really exists? Has anyone actually seen one of these? Until I see it for myself, I really don't believe it exists.

Gotta go, I'm meeting Elvis at the Dairy Queen.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/5/06 10:07pm
Msg #131013

Re: Blacklists and the Loch Ness Monster. MichiganAL

You have a good website.

Reply by MichiganAl on 7/5/06 10:34pm
Msg #131016

Thanks.

I'd better have a good website. I used to design them in a previous life (you knew that, didn't you?). But it needs to be updated, especially some dead links. It's on my to do list. Find Loch Ness Monster, meet Elvis, update website...

Reply by Becca_FL on 7/6/06 7:03am
Msg #131043

Re: Blacklists and the Loch Ness Monster. Any proof of eith

I agree with you, Al. CSS called me to do a signing just last week. Can you believe that? Proof to me that the so called blacklist does not exist and I was correct when I said that the staff at CSS clearly has communication issues.

Reply by Clay/TX on 7/5/06 10:38pm
Msg #131018

What did you do to be threatened with being "blacklisted"? I don't see this a being any worse than the "NO NO List" posted on here regularly. JMO.

Reply by Kenneth A Edelstein on 7/5/06 10:48pm
Msg #131020

Read # 130853 n/m

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 7/6/06 6:44am
Msg #131039

Blacklisting vs no-no list...what IS the difference???

I would have to agree with Clay on this...although I do not agree with a notary blacklist, what on earth is the difference between that and the no-no list that is posted on here? I really dont think there is one. The mysterious blacklist is supposedly distributed to all SS's (although I have yet to see it) while the no-no list is continuously posted on here. Some people may end up on the blacklist without cause as some SS's may end up on the no-no list without just cause....

Again, I dont agree with either because we should all be able to decide for ourselves what companies we want to work with and what notaries we want to contract with BUT this is really something to think about..I dont see a whole lot of difference between the 2 lists.

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/6/06 7:37am
Msg #131048

Re: Blacklisting vs no-no list...what IS the difference???

Sherry and Clay, A loaded question, my friends!

Personally, I like what I know of both of you. The difference in the No No List and the black list is *perspective * of readership and *venue* of bringing forth this question. You are asking for a blasting IMO. There's little objectivity where bank accounts are concerned.

You'd be better served by utilizing http://www.tavma.com/index.cfm to ask this question. That is, if you want sympathy or empathy or true understanding by people who are not sucking up to you and who are in your same boat.

Others who are going to answer you are from the perspective of a working notary professional who has made $150 from a TC client repeatedly only to have a signing service snatch that client at EOM and offer $75 to do the same job plus fax back the whole package. Bad place to pick a battle.

You are asking the readership of the "Premier Web Site for Professional Notaries," a question that is divisive for the SS and the SA. A big ol' can of worms IMHO.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 7/6/06 8:52am
Msg #131063

Re: Blacklisting vs no-no list...what IS the difference???

You are probably right on the money on the opening the can of worms Brenda. But have I ever been one to back down from the controversy?? LOL. I think it FINDS me on this board if I dont open the can myself...

I just thought that Clay made a valid point. I admit that this may be the wrong forum to bring this topic up but IMHO, (although I do not necessarly agree with the blacklist or no-no list), I think it is a valid arguement. It is sort of like the pot calling the kettle black in a sense.

Reply by NCLisa on 7/6/06 9:01am
Msg #131066

There is a difference in why they are blacklisted

The NO-NO list that is a notary tool that tells us about companies that do not pay. We do our part, but do not get the promised compensation. So we actually have something to complain about.

Blacklisting of notaries is something entirely different, especially when it involves things like they won't sign your vendor agreement, or they refused to fax back the entire loan package, or they wanted further compensation to go back to have a borrower sign docs that the SS forgot to include the first time.

There is a huge difference in how that works, and if nepotism ever gets involved, it could get even uglier. I can't say that I have heard of a notary blacklist before, but I really don't work for that many SS's.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 7/6/06 9:18am
Msg #131069

Re: There is a difference in why they are blacklisted

Lisa....in all reality, there really isnt a whole lot of difference in the two. As brenda pointed out, this may be the wrong forum to discuss my views buuuuuut...what the heck. I am sure that some SS's get put on the no-no list for invalid reasons as well..(i.e. sure they may not have paid a notary but said notary may "forget" to tell you important details as to why they didnt get paid - like they neglected to notarize the ENTIRE package in addition to sending it back tot he wrong place (this is just an example of something that happened to me recently). Now I am sure that many of the SS's on the no-no list deserve to be there but just like there are many bad SS's out there, there are just as many bad notaries that should not be out there corrupting this industry the way that they are.

Although I DO NOT AGREE with a blacklist, I find it no different than a no-no list - just peoples personal experiences...take them all with a grain of salt!

Reply by BrendaTx on 7/6/06 10:21am
Msg #131089

Re: There is a difference in why they are blacklisted

There is a vast difference and the argument is divisive.

That is was brought up over this particular situation is a comedy in itself.

Reply by CaliNotary on 7/6/06 12:08am
Msg #131024

What is with all the overreacting on this board lately?

Kenneth, I was with you up to a point, but come on, a class action lawsuit? Aside from the fact that this situation would very likely not even qualify for a class action suit, the only people who make any money from class action suits are the lawyers. Why on earth would you invest that much time and effort into something that's really just revenge?

You know and I know that the whole "the do not call list will go out to 500 companies" is just a bunch of huffing and puffing and posturing by an arrogant b*tch. So take it for what it's worth.

You got it off your chest, you opened a lot of our eyes, leave it at that. Or if you really need to feel like you've done something go to thepayback.com and get some ideas there.

Reply by MichiganAl on 7/6/06 1:01am
Msg #131030

Re: What is with all the overreacting on this board lately?

What overreation? Are you talking to me? You're talking to me, aren't you?! I'm sick of you bullying me and attacking me! Stop hounding me! I'll sue you, I mean it!

Reply by Jenny_CA on 7/6/06 3:38am
Msg #131035

Calinotary,

After 4 yrs. as a notary public I was finally asked to notarize a Medical Power of Attorney and I was going to do research on how to go about it. Well, I decided to visit that site you mentioned and my goodness......it is so funny!!! now I am too tired to search, hopefully I'll get a chance to do it tomorrow.

Reply by HisHughness on 7/6/06 2:04am
Msg #131032

For many years I was involved, first as a volunteer then as a professional, in non-profit organizations that pursued a cause that just does not resonate with the public; it was something like trying to persuade The Great Unwashed to contribute to Christmas stockings for child molesters. I was always interested to note the reactions of newcomers to the issue. Invariably, the first thing they wanted to do was mount a citywide protest; the second was to file a lawsuit. For reasons I won't go into, neither of those was ever a viable option.

I see the same mindset at work here.

The last thing most people should do is file a lawsuit. When you do so, you turn over the disposition of your problem to third parties -- the opposing lawyer, the judge, a jury if one is empaneled -- who either have no real interest in your problem, or, if they are interested, are interested in garroting you, and over whom you have no control. What you most likely will find is that the "justice" you sought in a courtroom is a far different animal than what you perceived it to be.

I'm not going to elaborate on the many reasons you are extraordinarily naive in suggesting a class action lawsuit, save two. 1) class action lawsuits are mounted by lawyers when they can make money off of them, and this is far from such a case; and 2) just how many plaintiffs do you think you would sign up when they realize they may wind up paying the attorney fees for the other side?

Reply by cyndi_ca on 7/6/06 8:05am
Msg #131053

Not to mention

The fall-out of such a lawsuit. I'd say you are better off "letting it go" and move on to other things. Being blacklisted from this co. seems like a good idea for you. Move on and market to bigger fish.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 7/6/06 8:57am
Msg #131065

make lemonade out of the lemons

Stop wasting time chasing after the SS and go directely to the Title Companies. Remember the best revenge is being successfull! Use this opportunity to see the light.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 7/6/06 6:44pm
Msg #131299

Excellent advice, Dorothy! I like your attitude! n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 7/6/06 9:41am
Msg #131074

Thanks, Hugh... and Amen! n/m