Posted by SueW/Tn on 6/3/06 1:46pm
Msg #123890

What is a good poster vs. an excellent poster?

Rather than clean today (ugh) I took a walk through memory lane and read the posts going back one year. An interesting pattern came to light, I found that I could predict what a particular poster was going to say! ROFLMAO! Then I wondered why particular posters are always negative, or foul, or threatened while a select few are always warm, welcoming and helpful. I actually could vision teachers that my son had when he was very young, I remembered the ones that shouted at him how ungodly stupid or lazy he was. How could I remember them? Well that's quite simple, they were the ones that left the undeniable sour taste in his mouth when it came to returning to their classroom. He would hate the entire school year because he couldn't please them and they weren't about to recognize him for being an individual. Then I recalled those that he loved, the patient ones that found value in the little things that he did. The ones that encouraged him, that taught him, that educated him in firm but fair ways. The ones that gave value to him as a person were the ones that helped to structure his personality. We never know who we are touching and some of us don't care to think about how. To those posters that are fair, patient, understanding, knowledgeable, sharing....you are highly respected and it's obvious to me that you're well grounded and totally aware of who you are and what you can accomplish. To those posters that prefer to stir the pot and are surrounded with negativity, you appear to be frightened of your future and not at all in touch with who you really are. You're a poor example of a professional and I have to wonder if you only post because you must be professional when on a signing so why not throw caution to the wind and come in here and take out all your hostility on the first unsuspecting poster you can find. Frankly your attacking others is very sad, the pattern is there for all to see. It truly must be a sad life to constantly toot your own horn. I say that because I never see posts about how truly helpful you are or how well respected you are in this community...you are actually quite invisible and fly under the radar only to surface, attack and then retreat. Accusations and name calling...that's for junior high cheer leaders that are afraid their place on the squad will be taken by someone a tad less attractive.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 6/3/06 1:53pm
Msg #123892

Re:One never forgets how someone made them feel! n/m

Reply by Keisha_NC on 6/3/06 2:04pm
Msg #123893

Re: Very well stated, I agree totally, but for those who are

being verbally assaulted remember, and I quote it vaguely.........

"No one has the permission to make you feel inferior. You have to give it to them."
Eleanor Roosevelt

I often tell my children that if you do not have anything nice to say, keep your mouth closed. So one day they asked me "Mom what happens when people say ugly things to us."

I said, "Don't get mad at them, ignore them. They do not know any better...and you cannot get mad with a person who does not know any better."

It takes two people to argue...if you turn and walk away they are simply talking to themselves about themselves.

Reply by Ruby on 6/3/06 2:09pm
Msg #123894

You are so right. Some people are takers and some are givers.
Refreshing to meet the ones that are givers, and go out of the way to help
each other. We just have to overlook the takers and realize that they are out there.
Maybe they need a course in postive thinking.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 6/3/06 2:16pm
Msg #123895

Re: Ruby is that you in Running Springs? n/m

Reply by Brenda/CA on 6/3/06 2:50pm
Msg #123898

I don't think you can judge a person by the way they repond to a particular post or poster. Each individual has his/her own way of speaking. Some people may phrase things in a sweet and kind (gentle) tone; while others are more direct, blunt, (harsh). When someone asks a question they have to expect these different kinds of responses from people, as each individual is different. I would not discredit something someone said because they say it in a harsh manner; some very good advice has come from some of the people here that have a "tell it like it is" attitude. I think that a lot of the frustration is the repitition of questions, day after day (maybe the orange "search button" needs to be twice the size it currently is, flashing, and labeled "Warning! click here first". It is noble to want everything to be done nicely, and sweetly, and in a school, with children it should be. However, this is the grown-up world, and a person that is considering self-employment should at the very least research before posting. This site is easy to navigate, newcomers seem to find the "Notary Talk" button, but they miss the others such as "Signing Central", "Notary Supplies", etc. Then they find "Post New Message" button, but, miss the "Search" button. If a person wants help, then they have to help themselves first. If you have searched with no results, then ask the question.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 6/3/06 3:05pm
Msg #123900

Re:Well said Brenda CA

It is indeed difficult to tell much about a person from posting.....it can be very misleading at times and other times very telling.....at least within our own minds....

Reply by janCA on 6/3/06 3:53pm
Msg #123907

I respectfully disagree

I think someone becomes extremely transparent from their posts even though they are hiding behind the guise of the computer. Would that same negative poster, if he/she were sitting right next to you, spew some of the ugly personal attacks as we've seen on this forum? If you have a problem or are frustrated from what someone has posted, I understand attacking the question, but not the person.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/3/06 4:08pm
Msg #123910

hmmmmmm...

I have to admit that sometimes when I see a question posted I sit and think "ut oh...it's going to be hammer time for this person" and I'm usually correct. Bottom line is I could easily reply in the same way BUT I just move on. Pretty amazing how some folks feel this is their own private club and they've gotta make a snide remark to every post when all they have to do is "move on" to the next post. I visualize a hooded and armed invader standing behind them with a huge gun saying "reply OR ELSE". I get soooo tired of the one that goes "if you want to be self employed yadadada"...who cares? I certainly don't, I waded in and when things got rough for me I drained the swamp. This job isn't the be all end all...it's a job, more to the point it's a service. To hear some of us it's brain surgery only to be done by someone who has proven themselves with an ample supply of silver bullets. The SA that knows their state laws (thank you Brenda for pointing that out), has some common sense, an ability to use the phone and is good with people is going to be able to do this job. Those things got me through my first 50 signings, reading this forum has helped me beyond belief and I'm thankful that it's here BUT I have to admit when I read some of the posts I have to wonder if the poster EVER did anything that they weren't just perfect at. I just have on a pair of those rose colored glasses as I live in a small town, everyone is friendly, no one is out to undermine my fabulous business and frankly my neighbor could care less about what I do, it's who I am they care about. Thank you all for replying and everyone have a glorious weekend.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 6/3/06 4:12pm
Msg #123911

Re: hmmmmmm...yes HUMMMMMMMMM this has brought many

interesting responses....love it

Reply by MichiganAl on 6/3/06 5:46pm
Msg #123918

I agree with a few of your points, BUT...

some of the best lessons I've learned in life, the lessons that have stuck with me, weren't always the warm, cuddly, gentle encouragements. Sometimes I needed someone to smack me upside the head and tell me to get me *$*%&* together. At the time, I may have thought it was harsh or uncalled for. I may have thought I didn't deserve it. But looking back I realized it was exactly what I needed. The teachers that gave me the most flack are the ones that I look back at now with the most respect and gratitude (of course, I'm not talking about those that were verbally abusive). They were the ones who really cared about my future, and not what I thought about them at the time. You can't always take a stern answer and decide that person is just being a jerk. Sometimes it's what is necessary to ultimately teach someone how to fend for themselves. This industry isn't the cake walk that so many people seem to expect it to be, and being self-employed with tons of competition means you better be tough.

A good parent isn't one who always gives their kids everything they want or always coddles them. Sometimes it requires a firm hand, an unpopular decision, and strong words. If your kid is lazy, unmotivated, undisciplined, and thinks the world owes him everything wrapped in a pretty bow, then warm and encouraging doesn't cut it. They need a swift kick in the pants, just like some here need it. I'll bet many of us had one parent that was the sweet positive re-enforcer that we loved, and the other was the harder disciplinarian that we sometimes hated. But looking back as an adult we've now realized how they were really preparing us and looking out for our future and we've gained a respect for that person we didn't have at the time. So, I wouldn't discard the posters that are direct or sometimes harsh, or distinguish a good, bad, or excellent poster based on that. We need them all and you may find that the posters you discredited at one time, may be the ones that ultimately served your best interests.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/3/06 6:12pm
Msg #123921

Re: I agree with a few of your points, BUT...

Your point is well taken. I'm just a firm believer that negativity breeds contempt and prefer to take the high road when it comes to offering negative "opinions". That's the beauty of freedom, you and I can come here and freely agree to disagree without worry or fear. I also understand the freedom of others and realize my post will be taken as a bird in a guilded cage, "Dorothy over the rainbow" type acceptance. Unfortunately I too am a realist and know that you can't change popular thoughts although I most respectfully submit that there are just a few that feel it necessary to pick up the riding crop and demolish another. I find no progress in negativity and sometimes the best way to learn to swim is to "try". Name calling and dressing down publicly is a pitfall of the society we live in, make another feel "less" so we can feel "more". However many thousands of men and women have died defending our right to do just that. Seems like a really useless goal, to make another feel stupid.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 6/3/06 8:29pm
Msg #123934

Re: Sue so glad you began this thread, it has offered up

great thoughts from everyone......things to think about....

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/3/06 11:04pm
Msg #123942

Re: I agree with a few of your points, BUT...

*I also understand the freedom of others and realize my post will be taken as a bird in a guilded cage, "Dorothy over the rainbow" type acceptance. Unfortunately I too am a realist and know that you can't change popular thoughts although I most respectfully submit that there are just a few that feel it necessary to pick up the riding crop and demolish another.*

No, Sue, you are absolutely correct in your assessment. Being objective in statements here where others are concerned is correct. However, even being objective yields name calling to helpful people.

A helpful statement like, "You really need to get clear on what you can do as a CA notary." is often taken as mean when it is meant to be the best advice available for that person. Names are called back at the helper. Others sweep in to protect the weeping "wounded."

I remember once long ago that Sylvia told a woman to get a laser printer in order to appear more professional and ready to work and the woman blasted her. It was excellent advice.

A forum is not exactly like real life. I cannot imagine that happening in a class room taught by Sylvia.

The "reality" I see here is that the more sensitive of us put way too much weight on the "feelings" of the posters. Unless posters already have a problem with their egos which is really serious, they shut off their browsers and go do "real life" and give it little thought. If they have true ego problems perhaps getting off the forums where life is unkind is the best plan for them - and believe me, this is a really NICE community compared to more brutal places like Amazon's forum, or unmoderated Geek forums.

Now, please don't go crazy everyone and say I am being mean....I am just thinking out loud here and considering how much importance is placed on the other end. We sit here and hash it out daily on who hurt whose feelings while *the Who* who got hurt is ten miles down the road talking smack to someone else.

The first time I queried a geek forum about a virus problem I was told if I not such a dumbshi__ who downloaded porn all day then I would not have a porn dialer on my computer.

Now...did I go nutty? No! Of course not. I had already read through the forum and found out that a person who could hold their own might find some respect in the forum...so I posted back that my new friend could be right but I had no yen for porn being a grandmother and all. Perhaps he was not quite the guru he apparently hoped to seem...did anyone know that for sure? Could someone else help? Then, we got down work. It was a good experience.

He became quite an interesting correspondent.

If you want help you have to be brave enough to take it. If not, you really cannot seek help and remain in tact emotionally with a very anonymous group which is unmoderated.

This is a new frontier. It is not group therapy. However, for those who are needing tlc, the SigningRegistry.com is the place to be. I have asked Harry if I can mention the SR and he says I can. So...any new person who needs help, the signingregistry.com will give you ALL the help YOU COULD EVER NEED! It's private and people cannot read anything you post without being a member there.

What is said in the SR stays in the SR.

Reply by John_NorCal on 6/3/06 11:37pm
Msg #123944

Re: I agree with a few of your points, BUT...

Very good comments from Al and Brenda or should I say Miz Stone? Don't like to use old cliches, but if it's too hot in the kitchen, stay in the living room., (don't know who said that, maybe I did) Like so many others I get tired of the gimme type of posts. I usually read them, shake my head and move on to the next post. I totally understand the frustrations of some of the responders who seem to have a " in your face" response. And I agree with Al in that sometimes a person needs a tap upside their head to clear some sand out so that some thinking can take place. Now with that being said, I firmly believe that some posters need to develope thicker skin, while others need to tame things down a bit.

Reply by whitesatin on 6/3/06 10:09pm
Msg #123938

Excellent post Sue. I stand behind your thoughts 100%. From your lips to God's ears.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 6/4/06 6:54am
Msg #123953

Excellent discussion, Sue and everyone =)

We’re SO interesting, I am just so fascinated by us, by the things we do and the reasons we have. I love people, I love BEING a person (and hope to be one a long, long time.) That is probably my own largest draw to this particular little ‘place’ – it provides me with a larger group of people to interact with, a greater human connection than I would otherwise encounter on a daily basis, and with a built-in commonality. I often wonder if it is so with most other people – if being in this profession leaves an unmet need in our human condition for connection.

I like to learn, and there’s much to learn here. I also like to be helpful when I can, because I believe in balance, and there’s a satisfaction to the need for affirmation – an undeniable aspect of being human. The connection being limited to the written word places a long grocery list of specific conditions that I try to be mindful of. The proverbial pen is pretty mighty, from both sides. The sense of ‘anonymity’ some might design for themselves creates a fear-based existence, and these people tend to experience the very things that they’re most fearful of. Escaping the reality of connection, they experience the uncloaked wrath of others far more often and more readily, from what I have observed.

We all have a Story, everyone has a story. In always trying to keep that in the front of my mind – and in taking the perspective that *this* is all REAL (you are real, what you say is real, the anger or the kindness is real, the human connection is REAL), I find it a lot easier to feel more compassion and less self-righteousness. And some days, that can become quite a test for me here – it’s not that I don’t ever FEEL self-righteous, or frustrated, or disgusted or angry. Feelings can’t be judged right or wrong – only how you act on them. What you say, what you do.

We humans like to relate things – it’s just part of the O.S. My son, as a young child, had ‘special needs’ as they say. Brilliant, and way on the outside left margin of eccentric, and EXTREMELY difficult. Perhaps one of the greatest of the bazillion lessons I’ve learned relative to him is this – It’s HARD, BEING HIM. When I come across a person who presents themselves harshly, with anger, bitterness, meanness – I think “It must be hard, to be them.” I wonder what their Story is. I see them as Real.

Relating it this way, I am able to NOT engage my own negative emotions, but instead I can feel some empathy, I can feel compassion, I can easily ‘let it go’. I’m quite smarmy, yes I know – but knowing how humans work, there will be those who will take me differently, if they relate to the ‘special needs’ child thing, and they will be more apt to believe the smarminess is genuine, and not be quite so turned off. My point is this – EVERYONE has a Story. Just ASSUME they do, and see them as Real, and try not to experience them so negatively, because it’s your experience too – why make it negative?

Reply by whitesatin on 6/4/06 2:22pm
Msg #123986

Re: Excellent discussion, Sue and everyone =)

Beautiful thoughts Renee. Beautiful post. Do you write professionally? If not, maybe you should consider that option. Have a wonderful day!

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/4/06 3:35pm
Msg #123995

Re: Excellent discussion - Renee is an excellent writer and

if she's not doing something with it, she ought to be!

Reply by Anonymous on 6/4/06 3:28pm
Msg #123994

You are also correct Renee' - getting windy & OT aren't we?

And windy and OT is okay here, but for those who want to know OT from topic - I made that distinction. I am posting this anonymously because of the personal subject matter "just in case." In other words, it will not show up for the entire world to see if a search is done on my posts by curious family members, et al. You know who this is...

I understand and feel compassion for the the other person quite well. But, having been drained of emotional resources on occasion by dispensing too much compassion to users (and to the detriment of myself) in my "real" life, I have a totally different lens to peer through than others. I am circumspect in dispensing compassion as I am very concerned that I reserve plenty of it for my children, most family members and for my friends and myself.

My past has taught me that I have limited resources to care too deeply for the anonymous person who fits some of the criteria mentioned here.

I do not call names and my goal is to be factual and objective when addressing someone directly. There are many personality disordered users here who have senses of extreme self-entitlement.

My extensive experience with these types in everyday life has hopefully taught me something.

I hope that I see the difference between the person who needs help helping themselves, and the person who feels entitled to help--the person who will waste your time being lazy, or in chit chat, or in asking a million questions with no real intent to do anything with the knowledge you share, and then gets angry when you, or hurt, when you try to set your boundaries.

I hope experience has finally taught me to recognize the person who sincerely cares and who wants to be helpful, and the person who wants to be backhanded and subtle in offering too much help so they might gain some sort of foothold in another's life.

Unfortunately, I have come to see the world in those who do, and those who want you to do for them, and those who just want attention.

Do I ever need help? You betcha. I am careful, however, to build relationships with people who offer something to the relationship. as well as give me the opportunity to offer something as well.

I am not a fixer, or a fixer-upper. I accept my friends and those in my close circle at face value and expect them to do the same with me. If I need fixing, I will fix me. If they need fixing, they'll fix themselves. We can share our difficulties and affirm one another but we do not need to rescue one another. Live and let live, so to speak. Offer encouragement and advice, but do not demand it be taken. Sometimes just shut your mouth and listen.

Talking it out can show me answers, but I do not expect others to make my decisions or tell me what to do.

I have a sense of control over my life because I do not expect help from anyone, but hope for it from those close to me.

I have no one to blame my failures on except myself. It's not because so-and-so xxxx'ed me, it's because I let them xxxx me. We have to take responsibility for our own destiny.

I recognize that there are a world of people justified to be unlike me, justified to whine, to exist as they do and that they are as important as I in the big scheme of all things; but I reserve the right to avoid them.

And, now, here is the intersection of where people like me either remain aware of themselves, or tip over into being controlling of the other by urging them into taking charge of their lives. Here is the intersection where the people like me drop the ball and get frustrated with the others who want to whine and pout.

So, have I dropped the ball on the forum? Yep. I drop it more than I should and urge people to do more for themselves because I "know" that's what is healthy and the road to achieving one's goals--if they have them. But, like LkA has so wisely said, this is a message that will never be heard. There is a great deal of wisdom in her philosophy on that.

I am the daughter of a very narcissistic father and step-mother who are both whiners, miserable and textbook hypochondriacs. They live to create dramas around themselves, to draw attention to themselves in whatever method they can--be it in "saving the day" or by "grave illnesses" they mysteriously develop.

They only feel alive if there is an audience seeing their savior behavior, or observing their misery and the way so many people are "mean to us...after all we have done."

It's all in their own little pathetic fantasy. They have manipulated people so long that they are very good at it. If a person falls into their trap they will quickly find themselves drained of time, energy and joy.

Unfortunately, the language these sadly miserable people use is the same language I see here in the anonymous whining so it naturally pushes my buttons. I muse that others who "seem" to lack compassion for the whining have been long-term victims of other overbearing complainers and emotional vampires. We "escaped" and we see these people victimizing themselves and others with these same traits.

We get frustrated and we react. Self-awareness can curb those responses. It's good practice here to learn covering those personal buttons up.

A caustic co-worker is harsh, at times, however, the covert bully is the one who is to be feared.

In the workplace there are bullies who are sneaky and covert in their bully behavior. They only feel good about things when they are able to tear someone else down. They spout how to fix others so they can feel all fixed-up themselves.

They make one subtle attack after another, then when caught they become helpless and oh so pathetic. Many times they victimize good people because they are masters at creating dramas where they are the martyr or they are the rescuer.

I see a lot of this on the forum.

This forum is a wonderful study in human behavior. Understand, that I know right from wrong. The ability to always convey in life that is my goal. I am still a work in progress--however, I am NOT a work stagnated and left in it's pathetic deteriorating condition.

Very good thread. Many good things to ponder.

===============
A very good book on the subjects I touched on here is Nasty People. Excellent reading for people who feel off-balance at times because of "nice" people everyone else seems to love.

Reply by MichiganAl on 6/4/06 6:52pm
Msg #124016

I wish I knew who you were, because this post is brilliant. n/m

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 6/4/06 8:13pm
Msg #124023

Re: I wish I knew who you were, because this post is brilliant.

Well click on my link, I'll tell you who it is.....you are kidding you don't recognize the writing?

Reply by MichiganAl on 6/4/06 10:01pm
Msg #124034

I wasn't really trying to figure it out...

I did recognize the writing but didn't see the trademark humor I'm used to seeing so I wasn't sure. I am now.

Reply by ReneeK_MI on 6/5/06 4:34am
Msg #124057

ah, but compassion does not a patsy make ...

Absolutely, the planet is full of users, manipulators, toxic personalities, damaged egos and confused Inner Children. Being compassionate doesn't mean having to be anyone's patsy. I, myself, could probably be accused of being niave at times about another's motives - but I'm not wearing rose-colored glasses. I'm talking about going one level past how a person presents themselves, and assuming that whatever their Story is, it has left an impact on them. It changes the perspective with which I experience them, and how I then react, or refrain from reacting.

Just as most of us do when we land at a borrower's kitchen table and they shovel all their anger towards their loan experience at US. We know it's misplaced anger and frustration with a system they feel is so out of their control. We see it often enough to understand how/why it happens, and we're not so easily 'bullied' by it - and most of us find it easy to diffuse. We privately think "ah, there's a story in here!" We're not as likely to jump up immed. from the table and write the person off as a jerk, or mean, or whatever - we have a deeper perspective on it, because we've experience this enough times to understand it. Now, sometimes they just ARE jerks or mean people (although I find that's really pretty rare) and we don't have a hard time figuring those folks out, either - we shrug 'em off, and don't allow them to have a go at us, and we don't take it all deep and personal.

That's what I mean - like that, only spread wide and far. Life is hard, full of rocks and blood and sweat and hurtful things, and we're all affected differently. Some people do ok doing the 'best they can do', some people don't manage very well at all, some don't even try. It must be hard, being a person who doesn't even try or who can't manage very well. I don't think people choose to be toxic. If I can be forgiven this analogy - I love animals, and when I encounter a dog that acts like it wants to actively participate in my removal from this world - my immediate thoughts are "damn, I wonder what YOUR puppyhood was like to turn you into this!" I don't even feel like I dislike the dog, I might wish for a half of a wayward bisquit to be hiding in the lint of my pocket, but I'm not about to offer a leg to chew on.