Posted by MikeC/NY on 3/2/08 2:44pm
Msg #237827

Ineresting article in today's NYT on Reverse Mortgages

http://tinyurl.com/32n3nh

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/2/08 2:44pm
Msg #237828

Make that "Interesting"... n/m

Reply by C. Wayne Moore on 3/2/08 3:33pm
Msg #237830

Re: Make that "Interesting"...

Read it in the Orlando Sentinel. Not good. Program is supposed to help not hurt. I think it helps in most cases. There will always be someone around that will try to take advantage of people.

CW

Reply by Elaine Sedlock on 3/2/08 4:41pm
Msg #237833

Re: Make that "Interesting"...

It's been my experience that programs initially designed to "help not hurt," too often only help for a season. Soon the sharks in the water looking for easy prey come along. A window of opportunity presents and . . . chomp, chomp, GULP!! I'm sure many elderly home owners benefit; but the whole thing scares me. If my parents ever even mention such a prospect I will definitely caution them and probably try to disuade them. JMO.

Reply by Laura Vestanen on 3/2/08 5:30pm
Msg #237834

Yet another reason to ONLY work with honest LOs who are knowledgeable and have the clients' best interests at heart.

LauraV

Reply by Becca_FL on 3/2/08 7:54pm
Msg #237836

Shall we revisit the thread starting w/ Msg #237157 from...

last Monday?

The RM is an excellent option for many and probably would have been a great help to the woman in the article, if not for a greedy LO only looking to line her own pockets.

I'd like to know, what San Diego notary helped perpetrate this fraud?

Reply by MichiganAl on 3/2/08 9:27pm
Msg #237839

Re: Shall we revisit the thread starting w/ Msg #237157 from...

You're right Becca. The R.M. itself is a fantastic product for a lot of people. Even with the situation described in the article, it wasn't the R.M. product itself that was the issue. It was the scumbag who talked her into investing her money elsewhere. I would recommend an R.M. to my parents in a heartbeat, and I'd certainly consider it for myself when that day comes.

Reply by Linda Juenger on 3/2/08 9:54pm
Msg #237841

Re: Shall we revisit the thread starting w/ Msg #237157 from...

I agree Al. I am slowly convincing my mother to do a RM. She is starting to give it a lot of thought and reading a lot of information that I have given her. She is 74 and still working 2 little part time jobs to make ends meet. Social Security is just not enough. Part of this is she doesn't like to stay home and likes to keep busy, but also needs the money. When she is no longer able to work these little jobs is when she will really be hurting financally.

Reply by Elaine Sedlock on 3/2/08 10:44pm
Msg #237842

Re: Shall we revisit the thread starting w/ Msg #237157 from...

Don't get me wrong, I agree RMs can be the perfect solution for many people. Like Al said, it's the scumbags who are to blame for the problems related to this type of loan. But, as w/any loan, it is always wise to comprehend what you're getting into before obligating yourself. Trying to live w/in your means is, IMO, a better option than incurring unnecessary debts. (I unfortunately learned this the hard way, in spite of having the best of intentions). My biggest concern w/RMs is the fact that the elderly can often be more easily mislead due to their vulnerability. Linda, your mother is lucky to have a daughter equipped to help her make an informed decision. I hope she gets the best deal out there and can live her final years happily w/out the financial worries so many face. It's a beautiful thing when adult children give back to their parents the love, concern, and sacrifices they deserve. Same w/you Al! I still have a lot to learn before I can offer my parents advice concerning this, which is why I replied as I did. Maybe when/if the time comes I'll feel more comfortable supporting them in such a decision. For now I just soak up as much info as possible and, believe me, there seems to be an infinite supply out there!

Reply by nsa/fl on 3/2/08 11:48pm
Msg #237847

Re: Shall we revisit the thread starting w/ Msg #237157 from...

"...I'd like to know, what San Diego notary helped perpetrate this fraud?"

Just curious, why are you blaming the notary for what the loan company offering the RM and then followed up with annuities? Are you implying that the notary should have advised this woman that she was being given a lousy deal and that she shouldn't sign the documents for the RM? If so, wouldn't that be considered UPL?

Every RM I've signed prohibits the borrower from using the funds for annuities. I agree that there are unscrupulous LO and mortgage companies out there and they need to be closed down. But, unless the notary received a kickback from this company in the story I don't see where the notary did anything wrong. I certainly don't see how the notary perpetrated a fraud by notarizing this woman's signature. I'm sorry that people are getting ripped off, but as a notary we can't give financial advice, or even mention that they are getting a lousy deal without risking charges that could land us with hefty fines, in jail, or both.

Unfortunately, we aren't in a position to stop people from hurting themselves, the most that I can do is recommend that they run the documents by their attorney if they want to sign them. I've had borrower's that sit on the phone for 45 minutes with the LO screaming at them over the terms and fees in the loan that were misrepresented to them, only to have the borrower's sign the docs anyway. I'm not comfortable with situations like that, but I can't tell the borrower's to go mortgage shopping either.

Reply by ZeeCA on 3/3/08 1:01am
Msg #237850

I was wondering the same thing... esp if the 'creative' stuf

was after the fact....

Reply by Becca_FL on 3/3/08 8:06am
Msg #237859

Re: Shall we revisit the thread starting w/ Msg #237157 from

Not blaming the notary here, just wondering if the notary could have done more.

The article said the borrower and the LO signed at the kitchen table, indicating to me that a notary was involved. Remember, we wear two hats, signing agent and notary. As a signing agent, I need to know how to show where monies are being disbursed on a HUD. The borrower questioned $100k. I want to know how or where that $100k was listed on the HUD and what answer the LO gave re: the $100k at the table. If the $100k was shown as cash back or a line of credit and nothing was brought up at closing, then there is nothing an NSA could have done.

We've all worked with scumbag LOs, but I think we all need to be very alert when closing RMs for new clients to help protect the aging population and our own best interests. More stories like this could lead to bad news for contract closers everywhere.