Posted by Vince/KS on 4/6/10 7:37pm
Msg #330550

NKA story (long - part 1)

So, a call comes through from blasto (not really the name) at 7:45 AM. Can you make a 10:00 AM closing in Topeka. I ask if the documents are ready and the particulars (BOA FHA refi with faxbacks) and agree on a price, knowing that it takes over one hour to get there. The order comes through with one contact number. The order arrives at 8:20 and is for “Jim A. Jonesberg and Mary A Smithson, joint tenants.” [The names are changed throughout to reflect the work and respect the couple’s privacy.] I call to confirm, but get her voice mail. The recorder says I’ve reached Mary A Jonesberg. I tell the recorder what I’ll be needing and will call back before leaving for Topeka so they will have a better idea of when to expect me. I didn’t have documents yet so called to verify marital and name status due to the different name on the recorder versus the work order. Talk to lead person who assures me that documents will arrive soon and they are aware of the marital status change and it will be clear within the documents and she will call BOA to make certain.

Documents arrive at 8:47AM. Notary instructions says the following persons will be executing documents: Jim A. Joneserg and Mary A Smithson NKA Mary A Joneserg. Well, other than the missing b’s, this is starting to look easier and the cover note clarifies it by saying: “Here is everything that you will need for the closing,.Mrs must sign as " Mary A Smithson N/K/A Mary A Jonesberg" on the mtg and any riders and the Signature name affidavit, Everything else she can sign as Mary A Jonesberg. They are you have a check made payable to blasto. Please collect.”(all except name changes is direct quote). I print and do not have time to review the less than expected 138 page order, call and get moving at 9:15AM. Receive a confirming call while enroute from blasto again confirming that Mrs is to sign using the “Mary A Smithson NKA Mary A Joneserg” on Mortgage, riders and name affidavit.

Borrowers welcome me at 10:20 and she mentions she and her baby have a bad cold, like the local notary that canceled had before hearing from me. She works in the mortgage department of a bank so this now looks easier. Logged them in, (their very recently issued licenses read Jim A Jonesberg and Mary A Jonesberg) signed the paper work as directed and returned to the office. Scaned all documents, rather than faxing because it takes less time, and e-mailed them. Cover to blasto says I need to hear from them by mid-afternoon if they have any comments, questions or concerns.

Just before leaving I receive a call asking if I’ve shipped yet. “No, is there a problem?” “Everything is great, except, would you please pull out the mortgage and revise the notary block?” So, I pull the page and it looks fine to me. I asked what they wanted and pointed out the borrower had signed as requested. She said I need to revise the block regarding who presented themselves to me to say: “Jim A. Jonesberg and Mary A Smithson NKA Mary A Jonesberg.” We talked about that they signed as requested, but that my notary block should have identical language or BOA would reject the documents because they would not record in her opinion. I said I felt the notary block simply stating the printed borrowers names “Jim A Jonesberg and Mary A Jonesberg was correct. She insisted I change it. I said before I could comply with the request, I needed to check with SOS as it did not seem appropriate based upon prior conversations with them and my commission was important to me. But, if SOS agreed with the position, I would be very pleased to change it.

NKA story Part 2 covers call to SOS and current status.

Reply by Vince/KS on 4/6/10 7:38pm
Msg #330551

NKA story (long - part 2)

A quick call to the notary contact in the Kansas SOS confirms that the notary block should only have the names of the persons signing the documents. She adds, “similar to a POA, in the notary block you only write the name of the person that is signing the documents, not who is being represented she adds. If you have properly identified the person signing the documents, that is your job, any more information regarding the person would be inappropriate. You are doing exactly the right thing in my opinion and to do otherwise would not be correct.

So I called back blasto and explained what I was advised, providing the name and phone number at SOS in case they had problems with BOA over it. They said they may be asked to have another notary simply re-sign both the mortgage and the signature name affidavit as they noticed I had been consistant.

So, now I’m sure interested in comments concerning if the signature data needs to be exactly replicated in the notary block in other states or not and any experience with this issue. While I’ve had many of these NKA, POA and others before, this is the first time I’ve ever been asked to add information in the notary block regarding the status of the signer.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/6/10 7:43pm
Msg #330552

Re: NKA story (long - part 2)

*So, now I’m sure interested in comments concerning if the signature data needs to be exactly replicated in the notary block in other states or not and any experience with this issue. *

In Texas, I believe the answer is yes, for the most part, it does. If I'm reading this right, you are interested in seeing the following.

The Texas statutory wording for AIF/POA:

State of Texas
County of _______________

This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by (name of attorney-in-fact) as attorney-in-fact on behalf of (name of principal).


______________________
Notary Public's Signature

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 4/6/10 7:52pm
Msg #330556

Re: NKA story (long - part 2)

Brenda your referring to a poa not nka they are different. Maryland has a special acknowledgement for POA for an aka or nka the normal acknowledgement is used.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/6/10 8:07pm
Msg #330560

Ilene, of course they are different, but...Vince said

*While I’ve had many of these NKA, POA and others before, this is the first time I’ve ever been asked to add information in the notary block regarding the status of the signer.*

I used a statutory certificate because it was handy and Vince mentioned POA signings and the same problem of identifying the signer based on the block.

NKA is commonly done as:

"This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by Brenda Oldname, now known as Brenda Newname."

Lawyers (who also greatly influence OUR Texas SoS) draft certificates to be rather specific in matters of this nature.

Here are two more examples.

State of Texas
County of _______________

This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by (name of officer), (title of officer) of (name of corporation acknowledging), a (state of incorporation) corporation, on behalf of said corporation.

______________________
Notary Public's Signature

[In our state, corporate signatures match the notary block. We are not like California (or apparently, Kansas) which does not provide for such things.]


E. For a public officer, trustee, executor, administrator, guardian, or other representative:

[As you can see, the same goes for this type of certificate. NKA, FKA, AKA are used at will by drafters of the documents in the notary certificates. As a Texas notary, I would match the cert to the block in order to avoid rejection at the clerk's office. It's the way I was taught by the lawyers I learned from and it is not in opposition to our secretary of state's advisories for notaries.]

State of Texas
County of _______________

This instrument was acknowledged before me on (date) by (name of representative) as (title of representative) of (name of entity or person represented)

_____________________
Notary Public's Signature

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/6/10 8:12pm
Msg #330564

I also draw my info from an extensive paper by a Texas

lawyer who teaches how to draft documents and to execute them to properly convey property. Page 17.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/6/10 7:57pm
Msg #330558

Re: NKA story (long - part 2)

Seems to be the same here as in TX. Here in VA the signer would typically sign:

"John Doe by Jane Doe, Attorney in Fact"

Whereas the notary certificate would read:

"Acknowledged before me this 6th day of April, 2010, by Jane Doe as Attorney-in-Fact on behalf of John Doe."

I usually have to cross out what is pre-printed in the notarial certificate and write it correctly, as it usually just lists the non-present person or it's listed exactly the same as is printed on the signature line (John Doe by Jane Doe Attorney -in-Fact).

My VA Notary Handbook instructs us to use the certificate I quoted above.

Reply by CopperheadVA on 4/6/10 8:00pm
Msg #330559

Re: NKA story (long - part 2)

Oh gosh, I was writing my response as Ilene was posting hers. She's right, my response is for POA not for NKA. Please disregard my previous response!

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/6/10 8:08pm
Msg #330562

Copper, Vince did reference the POA. n/m

Reply by Vince/KS on 4/6/10 9:48pm
Msg #330570

Re: Copper, Vince did reference the POA.

Yes, she (notary contact at SOS) did compare the AKA to the POA saying only that the name of the signer was to be included. However, here is what it says in the notary handbook regarding representatives and POA's - think I'll go with the book on POA's:

Signing in Representative Capacity: If the person signs in a
representative capacity (i.e., John Smith, as President of ABC
Corporation), the notary public is not required to check the
person’s authority, meaning the notary does not check to see if
John Smith is in fact president of ABC Corporation. Notaries
only must verify the person’s legal name as it is the only fixed
means of identifying the person; titles come and go. The notary
should ensure that the notarial block indicates that the person
is signing in a representative capacity for the principal (K.S.A.
53-509(b), page 39).

Signing as Attorney-in-Fact, i.e., Power of Attorney (POA): An
agent authorized by power of attorney to sign for a principal is
not required to show the POA at the time of notarization. The
notary does not check the person’s authority to sign, but
merely checks the identity of the agent signing. The document
should be signed with the principal’s name and the agent’s
name, with disclosure of the relationship (“by POA” or “as
Attorney-in-Fact”). The notary should ensure that the notarial
block indicates that the person is signing in a representative
capacity for the principal (K.S.A. 53-509 (b), page 39).

Further, here are sample notary blocks for Kansas:
53-509. Short forms. The following short form certificates of notarial acts
are sufficient for the purposes indicated, if completed with the information
required by subsection (a) of K.S.A. 53-508:

(a) For an acknowledgment in an individual capacity:
State of ___________________________)
(County) of ________________________)
This instrument was acknowledged before me on ___(date)__ by __
___ [name(s) of person(s)]____.
_________________________________
(Signature of notarial officer)
(Seal, if any)
_________________________________
Title (and Rank)
[My appointment expires: _______]

(b) For an acknowledgment in a representative capacity:
State of ___________________________
(County) of ________________________
This instrument was acknowledged before me on ___(date)__ by
_______[name(s) of person(s)]_____ as (type of authority, e.g., officer,
trustee, etc.) of (name of party on behalf of whom instrument was executed.)
_________________________________
(Signature of notarial officer)
(Seal, if any)
_________________________________
Title (and Rank)
[My appointment expires: _______]

(c) For a verification upon oath or affirmation:
State of ___________________________
(County) of ________________________
Signed and sworn to (or affirmed) before me on ___(date)__ by
___[name(s) of person(s)____ making statement].
_________________________________
(Signature of notarial officer)
(Seal, if any)
_________________________________
Title (and Rank)
[My appointment expires: ________]

(d) For witnessing or attesting a signature:
State of ___________________________
(County) of ________________________
Signed or attested before me on ___(date)___ by ____[name(s) of person(s)].
_________________________________
(Signature of notarial officer)
(Seal, if any)
_________________________________
Title (and Rank)
[My appointment expires: _______]

(e) For attestation of a copy of a document:
State of ___________________________
(County) of ________________________
I certify that this is a true and correct copy of a document in the possession
of _______________________________.
Dated: ___________________
_________________________________
(Signature of notarial officer)
(Seal, if any)
_________________________________
Title (and Rank)
[My appointment expires: ________]

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 4/6/10 7:50pm
Msg #330555

Re: NKA story (long - part 2)

I would have written what was asked by BOA. Even if they did not ask me to acknowledge bo in as nka I would have completed ack. as bo signed docs. You were just identifying the bo as one of the same.

Reply by LKT/CA on 4/6/10 7:54pm
Msg #330557

Re: NKA story (long - part 2)

As per California notary block requirements, blasto is out of luck on their request. If wife is now Mary A Joneserg, that's the name that goes in the notary block and nothing else.

Reply by MW/VA on 4/6/10 8:08pm
Msg #330561

FWIW, I have never included the NKA verbage in my notarial

certificate. I would only use the name she is currently known as.

Reply by Vince/KS on 4/6/10 8:57pm
Msg #330566

Thanks all. States do really differ. n/m

Reply by Julie/MI on 4/6/10 9:03pm
Msg #330567

What is your state's recording requirements?

In my state, the mortgagor's names on the first page, signature line and notary acknowledgement must match or the document will not record. We HAVE to put the aka, fka, nka in our blocks.

I'm not about to google your state's recording requirements, but this is just another quirk about legislatures not actually walking the walk and making notary laws and recording laws and not understanding how the process works.

Reply by BrendaTx on 4/7/10 5:25pm
Msg #330695

Re: What is your state's recording requirements? Julie

It always makes me feel better when you post...you seem to see a lot of things like I do. Michigan and Texas must not be that far apart on notary rules...and let's see...we've got in common...ummmm...Dow Chemical? That's about it.

Reply by MW/VA on 4/7/10 9:23am
Msg #330604

IMO the simplest way to handle this would have been to do a QCD, correcting her name, and then using only the new name on all the docs. I've seen this done many times.

Reply by Vince/KS on 4/7/10 10:42am
Msg #330635

Agree. However when discussing with blasto, they said they had not charged to do so and BOA wanted it as prescribed to save $.