Posted by Robert/FL on 4/19/10 7:14pm
Msg #332395

Self-study re: Florida notaries printing name under sig

I know a lot of you are tired of hearing about this, but I thought you might be interested in this:

I did a study of notarized documents to get some figures regarding compliance with F.S. 117.05(4)(h), requiring that the notary's name be printed, typed or stamped underneath their signature in addition to affixing the official seal.

The date and type of document recorded were selected at random. For this study, probate documents recorded with the Hillsborough County Clerk of Circuit Court beginning July 7, 2009 through July 17, 2009. The category “probate documents” consists of wills, codicils, and trusts made by private citizens, as well as certain orders entered by the Hillsborough probate courts. Only documents which were notarized by Florida notaries were included in this study. In order to ensure that this study reflects the habits of current and recently-commissioned notaries, documents notarized before January 1, 2000 are not included.

By coincidence, all but one of the documents reviewed were Last Wills and Testaments. One document was a codicil. No trusts were recorded in Hillsborough County between July 7, 2009 and July 17, 2009. A total of 41 documents were reviewed. Each notary reviewed was only included once; therefore, if multiple documents notarized by the same notary were reviewed, only one was included.

Of the 41 notaries reviewed, sixteen of those notaries (approx. 39%) complied with F.S. 117.05(4)(h), by printing, typing or stamping (using a stamp other than the notary’s official stamp) the notary’s commissioned name immediately underneath the signature. Twenty-two notaries (approx. 54%) affixed their official seal underneath their signature in an attempt to comply with F.S. 117.05(4)(h). Three notaries (approximately 7%) made no attempt to comply with F.S. 117.05(4)(h).

Thus, the final results were:

54% affixed their official seal under the signature in an "attempt" to comply with F.S. 117.05(4)(h)
39% printed, typed or stamped their commissioned name under the signature as required
7% made no attempt to comply with F.S. 117.05(4)(h)

Reply by MW/VA on 4/19/10 9:47pm
Msg #332432

I'm curious about something, Robert. I see so much from you about study & research in the notary profession. Are you by any chance getting grant money? BTW, I'm not expecting you to necessarily answer that in public. It has just peaked my curiousity. I can envision you as an attorney in the future. It appears you have a real passion for the law.

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/19/10 9:51pm
Msg #332435

No grant money, it's just something I am very interested in

and like you said, very passionate about. I don't plan to be an attorney but as a paralegal I do a lot of research, and I have done a lot of my own research on notary law, just because it's my own subject of interest.

Of course, the two fields I am most interested in - notary law and genealogy - are some of the least lucrative professions!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/19/10 10:12pm
Msg #332439

Re: No grant money, it's just something I am very interested in

Are you a registered paralegal?????

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/19/10 10:35pm
Msg #332441

No, and registration is not required in order to

be a paralegal. I became a paralegal through experience. The Florida Registered Paralegal program is voluntary, and I plan to register next year when I have enough years experience to meet the requirements.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 4/19/10 10:42pm
Msg #332442

Re: No, and registration is not required in order to

oh, I know it is not required to be registered. I have a couple of friends who are registered parlegals, and wondered if you were registered too. I understand it is fairly expensive and you need a degree first - Bachelors, Associate, or JD. thought as you have posted before that you are at university(?) you may have got a degree already.

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/19/10 10:46pm
Msg #332443

Re: No, and registration is not required in order to

I'll be getting my assocate's degree next month. In May 2011 I will have an associate's degree plus 4 years paralegal experience which is sufficient to become an FRP. But yes, registration is expensive - $150 plus yearly renewals, and you have to get CLE credits.

Reply by rengel/CA on 4/20/10 11:23am
Msg #332502

**Thread HiJack***

WOW! In CA you have to either have a Paralegal Certificate or be grandfathered in by experience - but the grandfather clause ended in 2003. But, we don't have to register or pay any fees. (yet)

We do have to do the MCLE and work under the supervision of an attorney - freelance doesn't work.

I just earned my Paralegal certificate last year.

Reply by Paul2_FL on 4/19/10 10:50pm
Msg #332444

Just a minor correction to what you stated. I.e.; "54% affixed their official seal under the signature in an "attempt" to comply with F.S. 117.05(4)(h)"

F.S.117.05 (h) has to do with "printing" their name under their signature only. F.S. 117.05 (i) states: "The notary's official seal affixed below or to either side of the notary's signature".

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/19/10 11:03pm
Msg #332446

Yes, but many notaries believe that affixing the seal

under the signature satisfies the both requirements (h) *and* (i).

Subsection (h) states that the name may be printed, typed, or *stamped*.

Reply by Lee/AR on 4/20/10 12:25am
Msg #332452

Re: Yes, but many notaries believe that affixing the seal

Arkansas has the same regs. However, even tho' I do comply with them, I still think it's idiotically redundant to print or stamp your name under your signature and then use a notary stamp that says the same thing.

Reply by MonicaFL on 4/20/10 6:52am
Msg #332465

Re: Yes, but many notaries believe that affixing the seal

When this requirement first came about I called the SOS and asked why this should be done/ Their answer - well, seals sometimes get smudged and we cannot read the name, and that is why it is now a requirement. Just thought I would throw this into the conversation.

Reply by PAW on 4/20/10 7:00am
Msg #332467

Re: Yes, but many notaries believe that affixing the seal

I think it's more of a historical reason (or hysterical). The embossed seal used to be the authorized seal for a notary public. Since the embossed seal is sometimes difficult to read, the notary was required to print, type or stamp their name beneath their signature. This has carried through to today and is reinforced by other non-notary statutes concerning signatures. For example, witness signatures on deeds of conveyance must also have the witness' name clearly printed, typed or stamped beneath their names. Wills (both final and living) required the testator to print, type or stamp their names beneath their signatures too.

Reply by Robert/FL on 4/20/10 7:19am
Msg #332468

The "self-proving affidavit" on FL wills does not need

the testator's name printed/typed/stamped below the signature. [F.S. 732.503]

Drafting wills is a big chunk of my job. The self-proving affidavit has the testator's and witnesses' signatures, and their names are not typed under the signature. There is no need for it, because each person's statement already says, "I, __(testator's name)___, hereby declare....". Their signature lines look like this:


__________________________
Testator

__________________________
Witness

__________________________
Witness

__________________________
JOHN Q. PUBLIC

If you could see one all drafted, you would see how ridiculous it looks that the testator and witnesses do not have their names typed below their signature, but the notary's name has to be. It would look so much better like this:


__________________________
Testator

__________________________
Witness

__________________________
Witness

__________________________
Attesting Officer


I have been tempted SO many times to just ignore the requirement and affix my seal below my signature. It annoys me that so many notaries (over 50% according to my above study) do not print/type/stamp the name and they get away with it and don't think a thing about it - and yet, I absolutely hate this requirement and I always have to do it. Unfortunately, there is just nothing that can be done. I have tried to get my local rep to sponsor a bill changing this requirement but apparently sponsoring a notary bill doesn't get representatives enough brownie points.

Reply by MW/VA on 4/20/10 10:37am
Msg #332491

Re: The "self-proving affidavit" on FL wills does not need

I would add a word of caution here, Robert. These issues may be "pet peeves" for you, and should be qualified by "IMHO". IMO, being a paralegal doesn't grant you more powers as a notary.
Interpretation or enforcement of Notary law would be UPL. The law is there for us to follow & comply with. I would also caution you about the use of info that you are privilege to. Again, IMHO you get close to crossing some lines w/regards to law. Have you read the GLBA?