Posted by Marian_in_CA on 9/7/10 4:29pm
Msg #351782

Even the clerk is doing it...

*sigh*

From the LA County Clerk's office...

http://www.lavote.net/Clerk/Notary_Public.cfm

"To become a California notary Public, you will need to contact the National Notary Association at (800) US NOTARY or the Secretary of State Notary Public Division at (916) 263-3520 for information and applications."

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 9/7/10 4:31pm
Msg #351785

OMG. So sad.

You ought to call them and ask how much they're getting paid to advertise for the NNA.

Reply by Yoli/CA on 9/7/10 4:34pm
Msg #351788

Re: OMG. So sad.

just not right!!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/7/10 5:06pm
Msg #351795

No! ALL Los Angeles county NPs should contact them!!!

I think that's outrageous. The Registrar Recorder's office is a public agency and it's inexcusable that they are promoting a private business. I think they should be bombarded by letters - or phone calls - from notaries letting them know what we think about that and setting them straight.

Not only are there many other (possibly better) choices for people who want to become a notary, but it perpetuates the myth that XYZ is an officially endorsed entity of government, or a true non-profit) with the right answers. Most of us know that neither of those are true. Then even more new notaries get sucked into their propaganda, further perpetuating their attempt to create a monopoly. Can you imagine this happening in other industries?

This isn't a very good example (because it's a statewide issue), but what if the county said that if your car didn't pass a smog test that you need to contact a particular dealership to get it worked on? It would be all over the news!

I get that they are probably trying to avoid people calling them and that this is an attempt to be helpful, but it is inappropriate and could be handled in another way. How about if they added the link to the SOS notary website? That site has a list of all the approved notary trainers in the state, by county.

This is the phone number for the LA County Clerk's office: 562-462-2177. It would be interesting to see if we can get them to change their site.

Thanks for posting about this, Marian!

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/7/10 6:13pm
Msg #351813

I've placed a call...

The lady I need to talk with was away from her desk. They said I should be called back within the half hour. When I get the information, I'll pass it on.

The NNA claims to be non-profit.... but only the "National Notary Foundation" is non-profit. The "National Notary Association" is not... or so I can find.

"The National Notary Foundation is a nonprofit corporation established exclusively for charitable and educational purposes under Internal Revenue Service Code 501(c)(3). The Foundation supports scholarship, education, research, personal achievement, and humanitarian and philanthropic projects."

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/7/10 6:18pm
Msg #351814

on phone w/ her now... she's "talking to her supervisor" n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/7/10 6:44pm
Msg #351816

UPDATE.... Oh, boy....

I spoke with Patty (562-462-2828 is the number she called me from).

She said her supervisor said it's only for "information purposes" and they couldn't be paid by the NNA because that would be considered "solicitation". She actually got pretty upset that I suggested the NNA paid the county to promote them. She transferred me to her supervisor, Norita Wheat. She told me the same thing, and essentially said that it's only there to help people learn how to become a notary, not that they're promoting their services.

She, too, got a bit offended at the idea that they may have been paid to do that, mentioning things about false accusations against the county. I do think that those individuals have no ill intent.... it's just somebody who doesn't understand put it up there "to be helpful" or something.

I explained to her that they may not have intended to do anything wrong, but that it *appears* that way by not only singling out a private vendor, but listing them BEFORE the state authority. I told her that the NNA is a for-profit vendor like all of the others in the state, and it appears to be favoritism. It may or may not be that... but appearances are what usually matter, and by simply listing them, it *is* advertising for them.

I also told her that there's no reason to even mention the NNA when the CA SOS's website has every bit of information needed for one to become a notary, including the handbook and handy little checklists. It also has a list of all of the approved education vendors.

I told her that they should either list ALL of the vendors or none and simply link them to the SOS's website.

She said that if I had a complaint, I needed to send an email to:

[e-mail address]

And that goes to an upper level manager who may have more control. So she said.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/7/10 7:26pm
Msg #351822

Re: UPDATE.... Oh, boy.... Thanks, Marian!!

I plan to send an email complaint. I agree that they probably did only have the intention of being helpful, possibly by some well placed information by someone from the NNA. Lots of people still have en erroneous impression about them. But from Marian's experience, it seems like it's not going to help get any traction by talking about the appearance of them being paid. But the appearance of favoritism I think is very apt.

If that email box gets filled over the next several days or weeks with many respectful expressions of our displeasure to learn of this, I'll bet we see it change!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/7/10 8:14pm
Msg #351824

I've sent my email complaint

"The NNA claims to be non-profit.... but only the "National Notary Foundation" is non-profit. The "National Notary Association" is not... or so I can find."

I did this same research a few years back, with the same result. No trace of the NNA itself registered as a non-profit. I think it's extremely disingenuous of them to use the .org from the foundation for all their business activities. (Just my opinion!)

I hope more of you will take a moment to politely let the LA Recorder's office know what you think about them promoting the NNA on their website. I think all new notaries should know that the ultimate source for information in our state about all things "Notary" should be the SOS office - NOT a particular business, even if it is called the "National Notary Association".

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 9/8/10 10:07am
Msg #351866

Realize that it is not the main issue, but I believe NNA is

chartered as a Not For Profit Organization.
There is a difference between " Not for profit" and Charitable.
Charitable entitles that qualify under IRS 501 (c) 3 can accept donations and the
donor may claim the deduction of his tax return.
Not for profits are organization chartered for non business purposes, and not intended to
"make a profit", but to provide services to members or others. Revenues in excess of expenses are used for the purpose intended and not distrubuted to owners or members.
A not for profit org may have a subsidary qulifying charitable organization.which may accept deductable contributions.

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/8/10 10:51am
Msg #351874

THanks for that clarification, Bob....

If they are "not for profit" the money sure is going somewhere because they sure make a LOT of it. Of course, they are pretty huge... I'm going to be down the street from their headquarters on Friday and I'll snag a photo of their building. It's pretty large.

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/7/10 4:44pm
Msg #351790

Since when does a county office ADVERTISE for a private co.? If they are going to do that, then they should also provide info on EVERY bonding co., class, yada, yada, yada...

This is so wrong and either stupid or lazy...or paid!

Reply by Cari on 9/7/10 5:00pm
Msg #351794

Well, first IL, now CA...OMG XYZ is totally taking over!

Bob you were scared of federal regulation, now start getting scared...its sure to be coming soon!

Reply by James Dawson on 9/7/10 5:16pm
Msg #351797

they don't even have a webmaster to contact! There's no

there.......there!

Reply by MW/VA on 9/7/10 5:37pm
Msg #351802

Outrageous. You can be sure that's due the XYZ's marketing ability. As it has been pointed out, why should the County Clerk be advertising or referring to a private, for-profit business. I wonder if they realize that the convenient use of the title "National" is misleading. Maybe we should all get together on a class action suit for being misled by that organization.

Reply by Cari on 9/7/10 6:05pm
Msg #351810

National is NOT as misleading as Federal....

Reply by MikeC/NY on 9/7/10 5:46pm
Msg #351807

I wonder how much they paid to get top billing over the SOS?

This is beyond stupid - all the clerk's office had to say was to contact the State agency, and be done with it. Now a government agency has put itself in the awkward position of promoting a private business over the (FREE) info available from the State.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/7/10 6:12pm
Msg #351812

How about a short, concise letter to the governor/sos requesting a clarification of this? Take a picture of the website, print it out. Copy the county clerk.

If that doesn't help...or maybe instead of the above...send copies to the California bonding agencies and let them take up the cause.

Boo. Boo. Boo.

Reply by Erwin/CA on 9/7/10 6:34pm
Msg #351815

When I ordered the 2010 Notary Handbook from the State of California's SOS's office I received it from the company that is contracted to provide the test for Notary Public, not from the State. Maybe it is a cost saving thing.
Erwin

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/7/10 6:48pm
Msg #351817

No... that's not really the case here. This is a case of some doofus trying to be helpful listed the NNA for "informational" purposes and they *claim* to not be promoting the NNA.

Well... that's not what it looks like.

Edwin, the company you mention has an exclusive contract with the state to handle testing... it's not quite the same thing.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 9/7/10 6:58pm
Msg #351818

I went to check my State SOS

They used to list the NNA in the brochure.
But I found the following Consumer Alert


CONSUMER ALERT:


PLEASE READ BEFORE BUYING A NOTARY BOND


Please be advised that notary bonds may be purchased from any insurance company licensed to sell surety bonds in Wisconsin. PRICES VARY GREATLY - from approximately $25 to more than $100 - for a $500, four-year notary bond. Some insurance companies include other products in their sales packages, such as notary stamps, extra insurance, or magazine subscriptions to their association.

Please be aware that a notary applicant does not need to "join" a notary association in order to become a notary public in Wisconsin. Additionally, a renewing notary does not need to buy a new stamp every four years, unless the current seal or stamp is worn out. If a company offers a notary stamp along with the bond, and the applicant doesn't need a new stamp, the applicant may wish to consider other insurance companies.

You are encouraged to be wary of notary bond mailings or internet sites that offer "one-step" notary commissions. These companies may charge an applicant much more than is necessary to become a notary. Renewing notaries public may receive several mailings offering various package deals. Please read these offers carefully before considering sending any money to them!

Some insurance companies are giving misinformation to notaries public who purchase bonds from them. One particular company, which includes a notary stamp as part of a basic sales package, indicates a "Commission expiration date...." in their printed packing statement that accompanies receipt of the stamp. THIS IS MISINFORMATION AND SHOULD BE DISREGARDED.

Notary public applicants in Wisconsin are required to provide proof to the Secretary of State's Office that they have purchased a bond from an insurance company before being issued a notary commission. THE PURCHASE OF A BOND IS ONLY ONE STEP IN THE PROCESS OF APPLYING TO BECOME A NOTARY. The act of purchasing a bond does not qualify an applicant to be a notary or to perform notarizations. Insurance companies are not authorized to issue notary public commissions and cannot provide commission expiration dates.

In order to become a notary, an applicant is required to send an application form, the application fee, the completed bond form, and oath of office to the Office of the Secretary of State. After processing the application, the Office of the Secretary of State sends each notary applicant a certificate indicating that the applicant has been commissioned as a Wisconsin notary public, along with the expiration date of that commission. At that point, the applicant can begin notarizing. Commissions are granted shortly after all completed materials are received by the Office of the Secretary of State. So if a notary is renewing, the paperwork should be sent in a few weeks prior to the expiration date of the current commission.

The Office of the Secretary of State does not sell bonds, does not endorse any insurance or surety companies, and is not affiliated with any internet company or association that sells notary bonds or supplies.

If you have questions or would like additional information regarding bonding choices, please call the Office of the Secretary of State, Notary Section, at (608) 266-5594.

Thank you.

Reply by Stoli on 9/7/10 8:34pm
Msg #351826

Election year, children; contact your SOS election HQ's

This is an election year; call your Secretary of State's election campaign headquarters. You will never again, until the next election, have a more attentive ear or responsive SOS. This is probably the ONLY opportunity you will have to get your issue right in front of their faces--it now is a campain issue to be addressed. MAKE IT A CAMPAIGN ISSUE! Make your objection to NNA known like never before; I have already done the same- IN PERSON. The NNA issue is already in their face and being researched.

For those of us in the greater Sacramento area contact the following: Darrell Steinberg, State Senate as President pro Tempore (http://dist06.casen.govoffice.com/) Live Town Hall meeting is on his website.

From his website: Sacramento region, including the cities of Sacramento, North Highlands, Citrus Heights and portions of Elk Grove, Rio Linda, Carmichael and Rancho Cordova. Please use this site to gather information about your state government. I hope you share with me your thoughts and ideas by phone or email. I always look forward to hearing from you.


There is no time like the present to make your opinions known about NNA's invasion and intrusion into our profession. They are, quite frankly spoken, financial bullies. No one willingly does business with them, and they are using financial clout to BULLY you into membership. We all know that the newly commissioned notaries don't know the difference, and they are going to take help from where ever it comes from.... then purchase the membership, bond, insurance, Certified Signing Agent course material, test, certification and all of their journals, thumbprint thingy-dingys (I love that term) etc.

The contract services Marion was referencing is listed below:

CPS Human Resource Services
https://cmas.cps.ca.gov/CMAS/login.aspx

Reply by Stoli on 9/7/10 8:38pm
Msg #351828

Marion, LA County? You're commissioned where? n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/7/10 11:06pm
Msg #351840

My oath & bond are in LA County....

my commission is for the whole state. Hee hee.

Reply by Stoli on 9/7/10 8:55pm
Msg #351829

How about every, single, last one of us send an e-mail?

[e-mail address]

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 9/7/10 11:20pm
Msg #351842

I emailed the company I teach for to respond to this issue.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 9/7/10 11:34pm
Msg #351843

Good. Keep us posted on its position(s). n/m

Reply by Marian_in_CA on 9/7/10 11:37pm
Msg #351845

Re: Good. Keep us posted on its position(s).

I can imagine that *ANY* notary education or supply vendor in the state would be royally peeved about this, even NotRot!

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 9/7/10 11:58pm
Msg #351848

Re: Good. Keep us posted on its position(s).

I am teaching tomorrow in Anaheim, and won't have my cell on, but I will post tomorrow night.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 9/8/10 9:31pm
Msg #351934

Re: Good. Keep us posted on its position(s).

I talked to Dan Jones, owner, and he was very upset and immediately called the office and registered his displeasure and emailed them also. He got the same response as everyone (they will get back with him next week.

His opinion is list all the vendors or don't list any!! The Secretary of State lists all the teaching vendors and that is fair.

Reply by Cari on 9/8/10 7:32am
Msg #351855

talk about a county's office being lazy! HOLY COW!

I just re-read what you posted...so in order to become a notary, you have an option to go to NNA OR the CA SOS...how frickin' lazy of that office...

Yeah, if I lived in that county, I would definitely complain!!!!