Posted by bagger on 3/25/11 8:39am
Msg #377466

Getting paid

This is a new one on me, has anybody else run into it.
Did a signing last night, and this verbiage was in one of the documents requiring borrowers signature.;

NOTARY SIGNING FEE
The undersigned parties do hereby state that they fully acknowledge and understand that if a notary service has been used, and the loan cancels, that they will be fully responsible for paying this fee to xxxxxxxxx Title Agency, Inc.

I'm not an attorney, but....Doesn't this sort of conflict with the recission agreement?
It sort of says that if the borrowers cancel, they are responsible for certain fees.

Reply by DudleyDawson on 3/25/11 8:56am
Msg #377469

Ummmm & why do you have a problem with this? Its is certainly to your benefit... if said title company is trying to collect fees even if the loan is canceled why would you have a problem with this.... Unless they were collecting the fees and telling notaries that they don't pay when a loan cancels then you could have a problem.

Reply by bagger on 3/25/11 9:06am
Msg #377471

The problem I have with it is from the borrower's standpoint.
If the borrower is on the fence about cancelling, and this unknown charge is hanging over their heads, it may influence their decision.
And, nowhere does it say I get paid, it says the borrower owes the title company the fees, not the notary.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/25/11 9:04am
Msg #377470

Re: Getting paid....RTC specifically states

"If you cancel the transaction, the mortgage is also canceled. Within 20 calendar days after we receive your notice, we must take the steps necessary to reflect the fact that the mortgage on your home has been canceled, and we must return to you any money or property you have given to us or to anyone else in connection with this transaction."

Note end of statement - "we must return to you any money or property you have given to us OR ANYONE ELSE"...

I agree with Richard - this document could be a problem. And I HAVE seen one in a RM signing I did a couple three years ago - the lady signed it....I was not comfortable with it.

I'm still naive enough to believe title/lender knows what they're doing when they draft these docs and they must know it's acceptable and not a violation...probably not true, I know.

Reply by Lee/AR on 3/25/11 9:12am
Msg #377473

Re: Getting paid....RTC specifically states

Several years ago, a similar doc (only it said 'pay the Notary') was in an RM package. The Bs signed it and later cancelled the transaction. I wasn't comfortable (or knowledgeable) with it at the signing, so asked my attorney about the feasibility of getting paid by the Bs for this.

He said I could try--maybe they'll pay it, but they don't have to as they have NO CONTRACT WITH YOU (or, in this case, the TC) and if I took it to court, I'd lose. I e-mailed the TC what my attorney had said---and, voila, TC paid me.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/25/11 11:48am
Msg #377485

Re: Getting paid....RTC specifically states

One company - think it was Notary Direct used to put a similar form in their packages, don't know if they still do (I am going back about 8 years).
Some borrowers signed it, some refused. Up to the borrower whether they sign it or not.

We can't advise the borrowers whether to sign it or not (obviously), but I made sure the borrowers read that doc thoroughly before signing (or not signing) it.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/25/11 12:13pm
Msg #377488

I refuse to discuss my fee with the borrowers

The one time I was faced with this situation, the lady looked me dead in the eye and asked "so what is your fee that I'm promising to pay" - I felt obligated to tell her....I know I wouldn't want to sign something agreeing to pay something without an idea of what and how much that "something" was....

As I said - I was very uncomfortable about it.

Reply by James Dawson on 3/25/11 1:18pm
Msg #377491

Re: I refuse to discuss my fee with the borrowers

So what do you do Linda if your fee and name was on the HUD1 like most of mine are? Just curious?

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/25/11 1:28pm
Msg #377492

I'm almost never listed on the HUD...

The few times I have been borrowers have never questioned it.

Reply by Les_CO on 3/25/11 1:40pm
Msg #377495

Re: I refuse to discuss my fee with the borrowers

I used to do 15-20 a week where I was always on the HUD, did it for years for just one Title Company (gone now). Never had the borrower question, except a few times in the winter, in the mountains, where the borrower said that’s all they pay you to come up here at night in a blizzard? I’d say “Yup, and I had to print these two copies, and I have drop off the signed package at the office in the morning.” The way it should be. JMHO

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 3/25/11 3:50pm
Msg #377508

I've seen this also in a refi I closed on a few months back.

The BO's didn't even question it...

But if there's one thing I could change in this industry is how we get paid.

I want to get paid upfront. Just like home inspectors & appraisers get paid upfront by the BO or (sellers), so should we.

My dream is to go to a closing and have the signers give me my money, right then and there.

AND if the loan cancels, either the TC or Lender will reimburse them our services!

But this is ONLY MY DREAM!

Reply by Linda Juenger on 3/25/11 6:33pm
Msg #377532

That is not entirley true Cari. Appraisers are not always

paid on the spot. I have a friend who's son is an appraiser and he too has to wait to be paid. If the borrowers do not go with the loan, he has to fight for his money just like we do. If the lender includes the appraisal in the closing costs, the appraiser get paid if the loan funds.
If the borrower gets an independent appraisal, then yes they get paid upfront.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 3/25/11 7:00pm
Msg #377537

I was referrring to independent appraisers.... n/m

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/25/11 7:21pm
Msg #377538

I thought appraisers were, by definition, independent -

otherwise, why have them?

Not that there aren't "buyers'" appraisers, and "sellers'" appraisers, but in the main, how can an "in-house appraiser" be objective - which, is the point of an appraisal?

Reply by James Dawson on 3/25/11 8:51pm
Msg #377544

Re: I was referrring to independent appraisers....

An appraiser is paid on the spot by the borrower here. Sometimes the lender will credit to cost of the appraisal back to the borrower. Sometimes people have to pay for two or three because the first appraisal didn't come in high enough.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 3/25/11 11:39pm
Msg #377552

Exactly, James. Some of those homes in the bad old days

were "worth" nowhere near the "appraised" values for those high-fee cash-outs, from the zero-foundationed to the seaside sublime.

Reply by SheilaSJCA on 3/29/11 1:31am
Msg #377748

Re: That is not entirley true Cari. Appraisers are not always

No they do not get paid upfront, like in the past, thanks to the powers that be. It is a stupid expensive solution to a non-problem; assuming that ALL appraisers and the banks that hired them are always in cahoots. Since the overhaul to the appraisal process, appraisers now get hired by middlemen, much like we do, (so that there will be no coercion and undue influence), and they now have to hassle over payments like we do. Does it make appraisers more honest? No, as always it's a few bad apples that spoil the whole bunch. The appraisal fee has gone up significantly, and the appraisal management company gets a good chunk.