Posted by Otero on 3/26/11 8:48am
Msg #377563

New Notary Signing Agent

I am just getting started as a signing agent and I have received several notary applications and agreements from various companies so they can keep my info in their records. I am not sure what the standard fees are for the different documents, i.e., purchase closings, non-purchase closings, simultaneous 1st & 2nd closing, trip fee/cancellation fee, etc. Would someone be so kind as to inform me of such and any other details that I should keep in mind. Thank you.
Also, I received a call from a company in Florida whom I had never spoken with and asked me if I could do a job for them on very short notice. What advice can someone give me on handling this sort of request. Thanks.

Reply by aanotary on 3/26/11 10:46am
Msg #377567

Everyone here is going to tell you to decide on your own fees. As far as the Fla. Company. Look them up here on signing central & if they have a positive rating , you should most definitely take the order. You need experience & you need to be flexible if you want to make it in this business.

Reply by Otero on 3/26/11 12:30pm
Msg #377576

Thanks everyone for the advice.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/26/11 11:14am
Msg #377571

Try not to go under $100 or you will be labeled a "low-baller". There are exceptions, but not many. JMHO

Reply by Matham on 3/26/11 11:43am
Msg #377573

I was just going to ask this question. I am applying for a company that wants to know what my purchase closing, non-purchase closing and simultaneous 1st and 2nd closing fees are, but I don't understand the terms, so a little clarity on what these terms mean would go a long way.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/26/11 4:15pm
Msg #377588

Purchase closing: someone is buying a property. You may have to be there for both buyer and seller or just the borrower or just the seller, or any combo. I could be a full fleged closing with a ton of paperwork ($150-200) or just a simple cash deal ($100-125) They all have different price points as they are all different from each other.

1st & 2nd together: The are getting 2 loans signed today (whenever), a first and a second. AKA piggyback, which is a bit different, but maybe not so much. If you are doing one for X amount of money, they (hiring party) usually wants you to do the 2nd for as low as possible. You have 2 print fees (IMO) and a full signing fee and a half fee. So, for example, 1st is $150, 2nd is $100 (remember, 1/2 + print) Some will try to get you for a lot less, you are going to be there anyway, but it depends on the size of the package. The 2nd may be just as large.

The final analysis: can you make MONEY? If you can do it for less and make money, ie, profit, then it may fit with your goal. I am using figures strictly for illustration. If you are in TX, you may charge more for use of attorney's office.....I cannot cover all situations on this forum; it is next to impossible.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/26/11 4:18pm
Msg #377589

Oh, forgot: non purchase closing is refi, reverse mortgage, heloc, etc. They are doing something with something they already own. $100-175

On none of my musings did I account for mileage. Gas is a huge expense, as are consumables such as paper and toner. Only you know what you are paying and how far what you are paying takes you. See all these varibles? Don't forget taxes, phone bills, etc, etc., etc.

Reply by desktopfull on 3/28/11 7:38am
Msg #377657

If you didn't know the basic terms for this line of work, why are you even in this business? I feel sorry for any borrower's that you close loans for. I see JBA gave you the definitions you requested but those are things you should have known before ever applying with a company to represent them as a closing agent. I suggest that you find out more about the mortgage loan business before misrepresenting yourself anymore as a NSA.

Reply by Darlene Fontenot on 3/26/11 11:45am
Msg #377574

Thank goodness FlaNotary2 wasn't around didn't leave any encouraging words at all this is what she said to me "You are entering into a business that is completely oversaturated. There simply is not enough work to go around. Especially in a state like Texas which has so many notaries.

Even signing agents who have been in the business many years are leaving this business because there isn't any work.

Please take my advice - before you start investing in this career, find a different line of work. I am sorry you got sold by the NNA's "get rich quick" scheme, but with the current state of the real estate market there is very little work for NSAs. " and she isn't even a NSA from the post I've read.
Since becoming a NSA I get atleast 3 to 4 calls aweek if not more. So to you I say good luck to the one's that left encourgaging words on my post thank you and to FlaNotary2 I am here to stay.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 3/26/11 12:45pm
Msg #377577

Darlene

FLNotary2 is Robert - not a "she"

One thing though is that there are signing agents leaving the business after many years because there is a lack of work. But it may not just have been because of a lack of work, but because a lot of new notaries have entered the signing agent business (because in part because of NNA claims) and the fees are nowhere like they used to be. Even some title companies are only paying signing service fees.

And although Robert has always had his nose up in the air when it comes to signing agents according to his website he does loan signings - but won't take e-docs.

I am glad you are "here to stay". NotRot is a very informative community, but you sometimes have to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 3/26/11 12:55pm
Msg #377578

Darlene, *SHE* is a *HE*

and although his pompous shows every now and then, he is a notary, a registered paralegal, a certified signing agent (though he doesn't do signings) a certified notary instructor, and has various other accomplishments to his credit.

And in a way, though he was strong in his words, he was right. Business has slowed considerably, for various reasons. And the saturation of new signing agents is the reason fees are dropping for most of us (this current post is how many new just this past week??)...new agents will work cheaper.

As you said, you're new...all due respect but keep your attitude in check. You'll get far more help here if you don't bite the hands that feed you.

I wish all of you the best of luck...but you all need to develop your own business plans - and you should have thought of that before you jumped in. The questions I see asked here are questions that should have been addressed either personally in your own minds or in your "classes" and if they weren't then you were seriously shortchanged. I do firmly believe that when asked, instructors aren't telling people how to get off the ground and set themselves up in this business - they're simply saying "go to Notary Rotary - they'll tell you"...

First off, make sure you know your notary laws cold - those govern your notary activities first above all else. Someone said they took a class to be a loan officer to learn the business and the docs - I think that's an excellent idea - because absent previous experience with loan docs, you end up going in blind - companies can be very unforgiving when you're handling someone's most important financial transaction of their lives and you've no idea what you're doing.

Read...Msg #33325...and forward...read read read....market market market...read here daily....make SC your bible as to who to work for - you can get 12 calls a week and do all 12 assignments flawlessly - and YAY you're doing GREAT!! Til you find out you worked for a company or two who's notorious for not paying notaries, you've done 8 closings for them, they owe you hundreds and you're not being paid...you just worked for free - guess you're not doing so well any more, huh? And hear me when I say trust what you read in SC - a lot of time has gone into rating companies and discussing issues with them - believe those who have gone before you and don't even think it won't happen to you and they'll treat you different because they were so nice - they won't.

Good Luck.

Reply by James Dawson on 3/26/11 1:25pm
Msg #377580

Re: Darlene, *SHE* is a *HE*

The only thinking that I can add which I've noticed is seldom mentioned, learn to move around each site you chose to enter. That will save to a lot of time and effort. Read the rules and guidelines, manipulate the various taps, buttons here and you will learn a lot.

Reply by NJDiva on 3/26/11 1:53pm
Msg #377582

How in the world did you get so well established so quickly? 3-4 calls a week? In this volatile industry?

Not that I don't believe you, and I certainly do not want to sound demeaning, it just astounds me that someone just starting out would already have that kind of following or be so visible. Where are you advertising? Where are they saying they got your info from? I want whatchu got, girl! lol

It took me a while to get established. Well, with reputable, honest, paying companies that is. I hope you're not allowing them to make an idiot out of you by accepting much below a fair and reasonable fee (at least $100 (if you must-a little lower). Please, please do not go below $75-$80 for OVERNIGHT doc's (this does NOT include a print fee or travel expenses...do you have tolls?)

Honestly, I don't think FlaNotary2 was saying anything to hurt, discourage or offend you. They were merely warning by the sounds. FlaNotary2 has nothing to gain or lose if you invest, start, fail, or succeed. If it was a TX notary giving you the feedback, I would say consider the source. But if someone that has no interest nor is affected by your presence is sharing with you, then chances are there was no ill will or discouragement intended. And it very well may be a grave warning.

In fact, if anything, you may want to take it into serious consideration. There are companies out there that prey on new NSA's. As was mentioned, they lowball, deceive, and take advantage (they can easily lead someone not experienced into performing illegal, fraudulent and even criminal acts-keep in mind that you could be held monetarily responsible if there are discrepancies & you get named in a lawsuit-whether you did things perfectly or not. We are the scapegoats. It's happening more and more these days-us getting taken to court and being held responsible.)

This is a HUGE responsibility and not to be taken lightly. After all, we are responsible for a person's whole life and identity if you think about it. The sensitive information that is entrusted to us is something that we are privileged to be held accountable for.

Of course I'm not inferring that you WOULDN'T take it seriously, I'm just saying that it's a point that needs to be adhered to.

I'm not defending FlaNotary2, I don't even know who it is, but that person was only telling you the truth. However, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Even though you might think he/she was really jerky (damned to hell?), I see only good intentions. You weren't lied to or misled with anything that was said. Maybe it could have been articulated in a bit of a less harsh way (not sure if there was anything that could have been said much differently.)

I don't have anything to gain, either, if you start the business. I don't want to say I could care less because I wish you success, but really in the scheme of things, just know that you aren't proving anything to FlaNotary2 by being here to stay. You are the one that could ultimately be at a loss. But since you know that then More Power to Ya. As long as you're not cutting other people's throats to get there (degrading our industry by accepting lowball fees thereby discrediting all of us), then kick***!

Again, if you're only doing this for extra cash and will take what you can get, please reconsider investing your money, time and resources for the sake of those of us that need this business for our lively hoods. It really comes down to a matter of integrity.

This isn't meant to be discouraging, just a little more enlightening. Please do not be offended.

Wishing you abundance, success, wealth and prosperity.

Warmly,
Cheryl

Reply by jba/fl on 3/26/11 4:02pm
Msg #377587

"Since becoming a NSA I get atleast 3 to 4 calls aweek if not more. "

That is wonderful, but I wonder if they are the higher paying companies we all seek or if you are getting the companies that prey upon the new notaries. There are companies that watch the new notaries come into the business and actively seek them and them alone. As others have said, it won't matter how much work you get if if is from those companies as they are taking your time through hand-holding you through each step, giving you multiple orders and then not paying in a timely fashion, if at all. I hope you are checking these companies out on SC and through search button to read recent comments about them. If the comments are 2-3 years old, - well, a lot has happened in the past couple of years.

I know that Sid extended an invitation to you when you first showed on the scene - if you are being helped a bit from his efforts then you have a rare situation there and you should be grateful beyond belief. Many - most - of us have struggled on our own to get where we are today and although some of us have mentored others in the past, we play it a little closer to the chest these days. Understandingly so too.

Darlene - I also wish you no ill will in any manner. FLNotary2 is abrupt, but means well, truly. He is young but accomplished beyond many of his age. Saying that, and thankfully he is in Mexico right now, he still struggles with that youthful zeal of having knowledge surpassing his maturity. Don't be so quick to knock him - he feels defensive about many of us in this business that he sees in a kindly light. He's our little yapping Chihuahua....(you can see, I like FL Notary2)

Reply by JanetK_CA on 3/27/11 12:34am
Msg #377605

I pretty much agree with all the above posts in response to yours, as well. What gets missed here all too often - and is a HUGE factor in how difficult it can be to get good, quality business - is where you live. There are a great many variables. For example, Texas is a very big state, with population spread out all over the place, although I'm no expert on your area by a long shot. Also, it may be possible that some certain organization that I won't name hasn't inundated your area with NSAs as much as they have in other areas. Maybe you're just a great marketer. I have no idea.

But it's a fact that the volume of business for our field overall is way down. Several years back, someone here said that the pie is shrinking and there are more and more people at the table. This is now more true than ever (at least the shrinking pie part; don't know if the rest of it is still true, although it seems to be), but it doesn't mean that everyone's experience is going to be the same. Everyone comes to any business with different experiences and different circumstances. That's why when newbies ask about fees, growth potential, ways of growing their business, etc. so often the answer is that you need to figure it out on your own. Literally and figuratively "your mileage may vary"...

I also hesitantly add that people who have been around the notary business 2-3 years may feel confident enough to give advice, but they still may have limited experience in some ways. A lot has changed in this industry since about 4 years ago or so, but people naturally can only judge things from their own perspective. Unfortunately, that doesn't always give the whole picture. And what one person's experience has been may not have any relevance to what someone else might have to deal with when trying to start their own notary business.

So at risk of sounding like a broken record [which I realize many of you may not even understand anymore... yikes!], be careful who you listen to here!

PS. Darlene, you got some responses from some of the best here, FWIW.

Reply by NJDiva on 3/28/11 12:41pm
Msg #377678

I also hesitantly add that people who have been around the notary business 2-3 years may feel confident enough to give advice, but they still may have limited experience in some ways."

Keep in mind that just because someone's not been a member of this site but only a limited amount of time, does not necessarily mean they only have that amount of time doing NSA/Notary work. But I unequivocally agree that you have to be careful who you take advice from.

What's great though is that this site is full of "longtimers" who have pretty much been handed almost any kind of situation (maybe not exactly the same scenario, but definitely the same just of the matter.) If you hear the same answer numerous times, that would probably be your surest answer.

Reply by desktopfull on 3/28/11 7:30am
Msg #377653

At least, he was being honest with you. Be grateful he gave you a honest answer even though you don't seem to appreciate that fact. He could have given you the same "get rich quick" speal that the NNA does to fill their coffers.

Reply by BrendaTx on 3/28/11 9:09am
Msg #377662

Darlene, about FlaNotary2's posts

He will tell you like he sees it.

You can bet your bottom dollar that there are many regular posters who read your post and agreed wholehearted with Robert, but simply didn't bother to offer you their honest opinion.

Could that be because when honest opinions are offered here and they are not the answer desired new posters take it as a personal dig at them? They think that the posters are being mean? Trying to keep them down? They hold a grudge?

My favorite posters on this board are the ones I don't agree with all the time. Terse discussions happen among long-term friends here.

Get ready to hear a lot stronger than Robert's remarks last week.

Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they don't like you personally.

Reply by C. Rivera Chicago Notary Services on 4/15/11 11:27am
Msg #379902

Darlene, take the posts on this forum with a grain of salt..

and if you get easily offended, then this is NOT the forum for you. BUT you will get many follks HONEST opinions, mostly the regulars.

Then there are some that just want so much attention that its sickening, and you will def know who those posters are! LOL.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/28/11 1:40pm
Msg #377683

And Darlene, I don't care whether or not you stay in this business, or whether you succeed or fail. I was giving you my honest opinion. Sorry that I didn't sugarcoat it for you.

I stand by my statement that this is an oversaturated business. Yes, I am a certified loan signing agent. No, I don't "do" loan signings - I will notarize loan documents, but I do not act in the "signing agent" sense. The few requests that I have received to perform a loan signing I have turned down. My website says I don't accept eDocs because the only way I will notarize loan documents is if the borrowers have them and present them to me for notarization. That's it. Now that we have made this clear, let's move on.

Although I don't do loan signings, I know a great deal about the loan signing profession and the state of the office of Notary Public at large. I don't care who thinks I'm "pompous" - I'm extremely knowledgeable in this area, and my credentials are clearly listed in my profile.

My belief is: If you are becoming a notary to make money, you are becoming a notary for the wrong reason; and this is what I tell my notary students. If you are truly passionate about being a notary and serving the public, and are able to make money doing it as a signing agent, then more power to you. The best signing agents are the ones who were notaries first and/or know their basic notary laws inside and out. I always recommend that people interested in becoming signing agents spend a few years as "just a notary" and get to know the ins and outs of being a notary. There is nothing that irks me more than people who get their notary commission and think they can start earning $5,000 a month the first month after they get their commission.

Here's how I look at it. Imagine that you owned a successful restaraunt and that you have been in the restaraunt business for many years and are good at what you do. Now someone decides to open up a new restaraunt across the street - except their food sucks, they charge half of what you charge, and they don't have a clue how to run a restaraunt - but they constantly come over to your restaraunt and ask you how to improve their food, how to advertise, and how to get started in the restaraunt business.

Even if your restaraunt was no longer financially successful due to the economy, it still iritates you that you are experienced and knowledgeable in your field and worked really hard to get your restaraunt up and running, while someone else decided that, since they know how to use a microwave, they are capable of running a restaraunt.

For me it is not about financial competition, let's make that clear. It has absolutely NO impact on my finances how many signing agents there are in Texas. I have said it before - I do not teach notary classes for the money. I have received many calls from people who want to become a notary just to perform a wedding, and I always advise them to seek an ordainment through the ULC or some other church, rather than assume the liabilities and responsibility of a notary. I am not in the business of bringing as many people into my class as possible.

What bothers me is that you come here with no experience and expect everyone here - many of whom have been signing agents for many years but can no longer make any money doing it - to help YOU get your business started, while everyone else did their own research and worked their butts off to get their businesses running. And on top of this, you are determined to barge right in to an oversaturated business to take what few jobs are available.

I warned you in advance so you would re-examine your decision before you really started spending money to get things going. Instead, you decide to get right in to the business in some strange attempt to "prove me wrong". In the process, you are further hurting this profession and - if you are getting four calls a week, which I doubt - you are probably accepting the lowball offers that have put experienced signing agents out of business.

Sorry if people don't like it. This is my humble opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Reply by jba/fl on 3/28/11 5:11pm
Msg #377720

And furthermore,

How was your trip Robert? You sound like it did you good.

Reply by FlaNotary2 on 3/28/11 5:14pm
Msg #377721

I really needed a break. Had lots of fun. n/m

Reply by NJDiva on 3/29/11 1:46pm
Msg #377810

Re: I really needed a break. Had lots of fun.

lmao...omg...I just don't know what to say...still laughing...thank G*d he changed the subject, it was starting to get hot in here...lmao

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/26/11 2:40pm
Msg #377584

What part of NY are you in?

Reply by Otero on 3/27/11 9:36am
Msg #377614

Queens, New York.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/27/11 12:58pm
Msg #377623

I'm on Long Island.

You mentioned purchase closings in your original message. Unless you've also been trained as a title closer (a job with a lot more responsibility than a signing agent) or the property is out-of-state, you won't be seeing any purchase closings. The rules (traditions, actually) are different in the metro area compared to the rest of NY. In this neck of the woods, all you'll be getting are refis, home equity loans, CEMAs, and reverse mortgages. The big bucks are in the purchases, so you might want to consider title closing as an option if you're thinking of doing this full time.

Reply by Daniel Romanello on 3/27/11 7:29pm
Msg #377640

Mike I am in Westchester.

Title Closings are not something that 99% of the signing agents on this site should be doing. It is not just putting a notray stamp on a mortgage, there is alot more to do, more responsibilty and liability.

Any title company that has been around is all set with Title closers especially in this up and down market,

I would recommend to the nubie to try something different, let the professionals do the work..

Reply by MikeC/NY on 3/28/11 7:34am
Msg #377654

You're right, which is why I said you need to be trained. There's a tremendous amount of responsibility and liability involved. Even when you get the training, it's difficult to break in because most TCs already have all the closers they need. Difficult, but not impossible. If he wants to do purchase closings, that's the route he'll have to go.

If you go north of the Hudson Valley, different rules apply.