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Citibank Streamline Loans
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Posted by Vint Linda on 1/6/12 9:31am
Msg #408346

Citibank Streamline Loans

Went to a signing and DOT was dated for January 29, 2012.
Signing date January 4, 2012.
Called into title and Citibank. Closed for the evening.
Did not sign the loan and left messages to get documents corrected.

Now, title is telling me that Citibank is dating all of the streamline refinances
and RTC after the appointment date to give the borrower a lot of extra time to
cancel.
Title also stated that they are not asking the notary to date the acknowledgment or
jurats for any other date than the day we are in front of the borrower.
Title is also sending the documents directly to the borrower so you have no idea of
the date on the DOT until you get to the appointment.
Your thoughts on this as I also know a friend that just left a Wells Fargo signing because
of the same reason.
Thanks

Reply by ME/NJ on 1/6/12 9:39am
Msg #408347

Let me see if I have this right, anything you sign will be the date you witnessed the borrower sign? If yes then what is the issue? the dates on paper work that you do not need to sign does not matter to us.

I had a few Wells Fargo loans like that, no issue in my book.

Reply by Vint Linda on 1/6/12 9:49am
Msg #408349

Deed of Trust was dated for Jan. 29, 2012.
Signing appointment was for Jan. 4, 2012.

Deed of Trust needs to be notarized on Jan. 4, 2012. Appointment day.

My understanding you are not allowed to notarize any document that is dated
for any day later than day the deed of trust was dated.

Hope this makes sense.



Reply by ME/NJ on 1/6/12 9:56am
Msg #408350

So if they signed on 1/4/2012 and you date 1/2/2012 what is the problem. you did your job right. It's up to legal and UW if this is valid. Not our place. This year I have seen some crazy things and always called to make sure so UW's will do just about anything to get the loan through.

Reply by ME/NJ on 1/6/12 9:57am
Msg #408351

Sorry meant 1/4 and sign 1/4 not 1/2 n/m

Reply by MikeC/TX on 1/7/12 2:59pm
Msg #408442

"My understanding you are not allowed to notarize any document that is dated
for any day later than day the deed of trust was dated."

Unless there's something specific in your state law regarding this, or it's a requirement of the lender, the date on the document doesn't make a difference - that date is the date on which the document becomes effective. which doesn't have necessarily have to be the same as the date it was signed. What matters is that your notarization is dated correctly. I don't usually concern myself over document dates; as long as I'm not being asked to fudge the date on the notarization, the doc itself can be dated for the next century for all I care...



Reply by Mark/SanJose on 1/6/12 9:59am
Msg #408352

Had the same issue and concern. I know it is a common "no-no" at least in California to notarize future dated docs. (and of course never improperly date an ACK or JUR). So I read the handbook cover to cover (including the codes) and there was no mention of the document date (even as a journal entry). I called the NNA Hotline. Their advice was to NOT notarize docs dated in the future. I asked them to refer me to the law that their statement was based upon. They replied that "there is not actually such a law, it is just an NNA "Best Practice"". Meaning that it is not improper to notarize documents that are themselves dated in the future as long as you date the ACK or JUR on the actual date of signing. This also means that the NNA has decided to begin making their own laws and that if you ever call the NNA Hotline you will have to ask if their advice is based on NNA Law or Actual Law.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/6/12 10:14am
Msg #408354

Tha was a very accurate assessment Mark. lol n/m

Reply by BobbiCT on 1/6/12 10:16am
Msg #408355

Printed document date different than notarization date...

If this were a legal problem every time, just send all the lawyers to jail. LOL

Daily I deal with "as of" dated documents; i.e., the date one or more individuals acknowledge having signed a document [notarization block date] differs from the printed date on the document.

90% of the time the document is effective at a future date certain. Red Flag if a mortgage deed, lien, or deed of trust is RECORDED before its effective date.

10% of the time the document is effective in the past. For example, the lease became effective and tenants moved in before they came to the office to sign the lear.

Reply by MW/VA on 1/6/12 2:58pm
Msg #408395

"This also means that the NNA has decided to begin making

their own laws and that if you ever call the NNA Hotline you will have to ask if their advice is based on NNA Law or Actual Law". Thanks for sharing that opinion. Many of us have experienced the same kind of thing with them. Much of their info is inaccurate, at best. :-(

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/6/12 11:59pm
Msg #408425

Exactly! Except for one thing...

"I know it is a common "no-no" at least in California to notarize future dated docs."

I would tweak that just a tad: "I know it is a commonLY ASSUMED "no-no" at least in California to notarize future dated docs." Wink

There are all kinds of assumptions out there (some possibly even being taught in notary classes) for which no one I'm aware of has ever been able to provide legal documentation. (And then it's assumed that it's a California thing.) This issue about not being able to date a document with a future date is, I believe, one of them. It seems to me that this should be completely up to the lender - and this thread is just one more example of a lender choosing to do just that. Wells Fargo has been doing that for years.


Reply by Bob_Chicago on 1/6/12 10:00am
Msg #408353

So long as your notarizations are dated on and as of the date you are with the signer, you are in compliance
With law and practice.
It is a good idea to try to contact someone in this type of situation, but if you are unable to reach anyone,
Then I would proceed with the signing. The worst that can happen would be the loan not funding. If the dox
Are not signed, then it is a sure thing that it will not fund.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/6/12 10:16am
Msg #408356

Sign those docs. You are paid to notarize, not think it through. If it is wrong, they will ask you to go back and pay another fee for that.

**I am not being harsh, just realistic. Do not shoot the messenger.


Reply by Yoli/CA on 1/6/12 2:11pm
Msg #408383

Exactly, jba/fl.

A while back, I had a purchase package which "had to be signed that day." Conducted the signing. Got it delivered next day. Then, I get a call from SS. Guess what, has to be re-signed as everything was dated for delivery date. I had noticed that at time of signing. But, TC were the ones who put rush on it.

They paid another fee.

Reply by MW/VA on 1/6/12 2:55pm
Msg #408394

I agree with Julie. No reason not to sign those docs. n/m

Reply by PegiT_MN on 1/6/12 12:19pm
Msg #408369

I just completed my 15th Citibank Streamline closing this morning. This is a great program for homeowners, and a lot of business for us notaries.

HUD was dated January 27, 2012, Disbursement Date was February 1, 2012. Borrower makes their January payment as usual. New loan rate is effective February 1, 2012 (that payment is skipped). New loan payment is effective for March 1, 2012 payment.

Borrower signed a HUD (no date); TIL (today's date); Borrower's authorization (no date); Acknowledgment of Consent & Intention To Proceed (today's date); Title Affidavit (today's date~I notarized that with today's date); Borrower's Agreements, Acknowledgements and Certifications (no date); 4506-T (today's date); Acknowledgement of Receipt of Two Copies of Notice of Right To Cancel (no date); Borrower Questionnaire (today's date); Two copies of the mortgage (no date-I notarized); and the note (no date).

The package was then sent via UPS straight back to Citibank for the February1st disbursement.



Reply by PegiT_MN on 1/6/12 12:26pm
Msg #408371

I forgot to mention that the package is small, was sent straight to the borrower's home, and there is a UPS envelope all ready to go for us to send it back to Citibank. It doesn't get any easier than that. They even send a black pen for the borrowers to use. You just need to collect driver's license. There is never any money due because closing costs were paid and the payoff and the new loan amount is the same. Love it!!!

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/6/12 12:48pm
Msg #408373

Re: Citibank Streamline Loans...interesting

"Acknowledgement of Receipt of Two Copies of Notice of Right To Cancel (no date)"

no date???

Reply by PegiT_MN on 1/6/12 12:53pm
Msg #408374

Re: Citibank Streamline Loans...interesting

They sign an Acknowledgement of the Right To Cancel". The actual Right To Cancel doesn't have the acknowledgement part on the bottom of it, only the part if they would actually wish to cancel.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 1/6/12 12:55pm
Msg #408375

That's what I find interesting...they're acknowledging

in writing, that they received two copies of the Right to Cancel - and this acknowledgement is undated?

Reply by ikando on 1/6/12 3:33pm
Msg #408396

I'm just wondering what kind of fee you can get. Since you're not printing anything, and basically just notarizing and dropping, are you charging for travel primarily?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 1/6/12 5:04pm
Msg #408403

You are still completing a signing, just one that's a bit fewer pages. The notarizing is worth something, getting the rest of whatever docs are there is worth something, and so is all the usual administrative time that's involved with any assignment. And there are also the usual less obvious costs that should be priced into every assignment. Your post concerns me a little bit because it seems to imply something of a devaluing of what we do - and some our clients are doing a good enough job of that on their own! Wink I'm hoping that's not what you meant.

Reply by CommLoanPA on 1/6/12 7:52pm
Msg #408406

I may have overlooked this info in the previous replies, but I'll ask anyway. Who is contacting the notary? If it's the borrower who is requesting the notary to acknowledge the mortgage and any other acknowledgments/affidavits, the dates of the other docs don't matter. If a title company/signing agency is contacting the notary, then the notary is wearing 2 hats; one as a public official commissioned in a jurisdiction and one hat with several different pointed ends (visualize an elf with one of those silly hats) with a hat section labeled courier, one section labeled loan closer, one section labeled liason between lender, title company, borrower, etc. We, as Notary Signing Agents, usually wear both hats on the same head at the same time, which accounts for our collective migraines, ulcers, high blood pressure, and various and sundry personality disorders.

Reply by jba/fl on 1/6/12 10:01pm
Msg #408417

Sweet..... n/m

Reply by jnew on 1/6/12 9:04pm
Msg #408412

@PegiT MN: The part of your answer that stood out was the undated mortgage. Was there a line on the mortgage which was blank or was there no date printed? Are they adding a date to mortgage after it is executed by the borrowers? I guess the Register of Deeds might have a problem with an undated mortgage presented for recording if it were in my county. Wisconsin treats blank lines on notarized documents in our manual as "not advisable", whatever the hell that means. Not written in law, but problematic? I guess it is more important on a mortgage, especially with all the litigation involved trying to overturn foreclosures.

Reply by PegiT_MN on 1/6/12 9:17pm
Msg #408415

@jnew of WI: I guess I forgot to mention. It is a standard Minnesota Fannie/Freddie mortgage that Citibank is using and it has me fill in the blanks On this day of , before me appeared to me personally known to be the.........

I just fill in the date that I did the signing, just like I would on all my other signings.

Reply by Lavergne Manuel on 1/6/12 11:34pm
Msg #408423

I did one Tuesday which was January 3rd. Everything was dated for the 27th of January except the RTC which was dated Jan.27 to Feb. 1. We dated everything and I notarized what needed to be notarized for Jan. 3. The borrowers were aware of the dates and they were good with that. The RTC only had a place to sign if they were to cancel. On a seperate page they acknowledged receiving 2 copies of the RTC.

You can Notarize with the dates ahead of the date of notarization as long as you put the right date of notarization and the right date the docs were signed. Since the borrowers were aware of the dates, it went as smooth as could be.

It was Servicelink who contacted me.


 
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