Posted by HrdwrkrVA on 6/21/11 6:16pm
Msg #387171

Alot of these lowballer SSs still get their big fat fees. I

did a seller pkg for $$ - the notary fee on the HUD was listed as $200!! I've had an SS ask me to lower my fee by $25 & I politely said no way! I'm glad I stuck to my guns b/c I saw an invoice for a recent closing & it was $175 - same as last year - same as the year before & the year beafore... Thay want US to take less money so THEY can maintain THEIR standard of living: same pay, nice job w/ bennies, etc. Sure let the us SAs work harder, trying to make $1.00 out of $.15!

Reply by NJDiva on 6/21/11 6:58pm
Msg #387180

You only get...

$$? Or did you mean $$$?

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/21/11 7:10pm
Msg #387181

Seller packages are probably ten small docs and

a max of 40 pages.

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 6/21/11 7:26pm
Msg #387186

Uh, I did one for 80 pgs the other day. I've seen plenty

of 50+ pgs - oh & even when it's not noted in the confirm, some TCs just CASUALLY send docs w/ instrux to fax back pkg. Which of course, for most of us requires an EXTRA TRIP ...and toner...and time...oh yeah - and the hassle of trying to wrangle a fax fee out of SS (esp fir an 80 pg pkg) sometimes. But, 10 pgs....50 pgs...80 pgs...,SS STILL gets the SAME as if it were a 100+ pg refi pkg!!!! Hello! And we SAs get refis that are 70 pgs..90pgs...120pgs...140pgs... Don't u ALWAYS get the same $$$???? So what is your point about the size of the seller pkg? I DO give them a break vs a refi pkg, even as they collect the SAME FEE! So, what's your point??

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 6/21/11 7:13pm
Msg #387182

$$$ - the point being THEY are NOT getting LESS $!

To reiterate my point, they are trying to maintain their lifestyle (w/ COLAs, I'm sure) at OUR expense! That's the point I'm making - MY fee hasn't changed, even as my COLA (and doing business) HAS! That's why we're on this tip about lowballers (SSs AND SAs)!

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/21/11 7:14pm
Msg #387183

That's been my exact point over and over.

Without a notary to broker, they've got nothing. So, rather than face the facts that this business will support notaries of a certain caliber and talents for awhile, it won't support a middleman.

Otherwise, they would get real and see the train coming...just my observation folks.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/22/11 1:12pm
Msg #387249

Re: That's been my exact point over and over/Brenda

Brenda:
Disagree…. I believe there is a need for the good Signing Service. Where it is easier, and less costly, (and arms length) to contract out to a SS to do all the grunt work in arranging for, and follow up on an out of office closing. And if Title puts the SS’s fee on the HUD (as they should) the service is free to them. The current problems stem from stupid cheap notaries, the NNA, and some seeing a mobile closing as a way to make a bit more profit (a HUD violation at least in spirit) If done properly and legally the whole process would be seamless, and all would benefit…including the borrower that pays for the convenience. Its simple greed, unworthiness, and dishonesty that has caused a good thing for all involved to become a disaster.
Agreed…… “The train (wreck) is coming”
JMO

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/22/11 2:01pm
Msg #387263

Love ya lots, Les, but we're completely on two different

sides of the fence.

There is a new SS comin' round the mountain every day and THEY bid the good ones down...kinda reminds me of the "stupid cheap notaries"...it is not just notaries putting the biz in the toilet.

Another problem that I have with the SS concept is that they are not reviewed by any agency....no oversight...they can flop out an aka or a dba (or not) and become a broker of notary service and see incredibly important sensitive information (both the notary and the borrower). Yet every other transaction participant has oversight. Some even have regulations.

Some are run by really good people that have to take a lot of crap because of the dregs that share their profession.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/22/11 10:02pm
Msg #387357

Re: Brenda

I wish I could disagree with you Brenda. But I can’t!
You are correct that it is not just the unknowing notaries out there than have hurt this business. But also the deadbeat SS and Title Companies that knowingly cheat notaries, and the NSA’s that have no clue, and no money trying ‘farm-outs, ‘or the undercapitalized foolish that may start with good intentions, but soon find working on other-peoples-money just doesn’t work (Except maybe for Bernie Madoff) And those that are simply crooks that have no intention of paying anyone, and the unscrupulous SS that don’t care who they hire, or how they do the job, just get the cheapest bodies available.
I personally don’t much like regulations, and think they do little good (especially when not enforced)
I think our problem (two sides of the fence) is mostly with semantics…
I think the words reputable, honest and careful should preface the words Lender, Title Company, and Notary Public. It’s like a daisy chain. The reputable lender cares about his customer, and intends honest dealings; the honest title company cares about their customer (the lender) and so uses care, has knowledge of, and supervises the signing service that they hire to represent them. The Good signing service, knows their notaries, and selects them for their ability to do the job correctly, knowing that EVERYTHING depends on the Notary’s performance. A bad notary can blow a title company’s lucrative 50 order a month lender right out the door. A couple of failed deals and the lenders go to a different title company. Let’s face it, all title insurance is pretty much the same, and costs about the same. The difference between Title Companies is the SERVICE they offer, meaning taking care of the lenders needs. If the borrowers don’t close everyone loses. If this happens, Title goes to a different SS, and the SS never hires that notary again. This is just good business. Remember I’m speaking of reputable people from lender to notary.
Is it honest for the (no so honest) Title Company to put a $300 ‘notary fee’ on the HUD and then pay the notary $75, keeping the remainder of what they charged the borrower for themselves as a ‘hidden profit’? Is it Legal? Are Title companies regulated? Is it honest for a Title Company (like say Genuine Title) to charge the borrower ‘notary fees’ and then give the signing to their de facto SS (Safir Signing Agents) that knowingly cheats notaries, and certainly do not refund any fees not paid, or over paid back to the borrowers?
If you want oversight, (remember most times the SS does not ‘handle’ the documents; they go from Title to the Notary) have all States make it mandatory that an attorney must be present at the closing. Personally I’ve met many more trustworthy Notaries than I have attorneys.
Unfortunately there are crooks, or at least less than honest people in this business from top to bottom.
All this is just my opinion.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/22/11 4:15am
Msg #387213

Just for clarification, are you sure the notary fee on the HUD didn't include the buyer's package, too? (Or did they have a separate HUD for each?)

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 6/22/11 11:06am
Msg #387225

Yup - separate fees! n/m

Reply by sonya on 6/22/11 11:40am
Msg #387231

You have NO idea what goes into running a SS! You think you have expenses? Are you considering, rent for office space, employee payroll, employee medical insurance, phones, computers, office supplies, alarm system and monitoring, technical support to mainting all equipment and the list goes on! Get real and quit complaining..nobody said you have to accept the closings...that just leaves more for the notaries that can be flexible on fees giving them more volume.

Reply by NJDiva on 6/22/11 12:10pm
Msg #387238

LMAO!!!

And more (double) the overhead of paper, toner, gas!! B.S., B.S., B.S.!!!!

CHARGE THE TITLE COMPANIES, NOT US!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We'd like to support ourselves, not JUST YOU!!!!!! HELLLLLLOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

In fact, better yet, go out of business and allow us to work directly with the title companies!!! We don't necessarily NEED your taking a cut of our pay!!!!!

DUUUUUUH????

Reply by Les_CO on 6/22/11 12:38pm
Msg #387242

NJDiva

I agree….with the caveat that I believe there is a need for the good SS. And that they actually help us in our business.
The small Title Companies that do some, but not a large volume of interstate business where they have no offices need Mobile Notaries, or Attorneys to close their business. The smaller title company many times find it easier to simply “contract out” their out of office closings to a signing service rather than go to the expense of maintaining another (1-2) employee(s). It’s a business decision. Like do you hire your own maintenance, or janitorial people, or do you contract it out? If you are a large company maybe you hire your own, if smaller perhaps contract out. At any rate these SS's that Title does decide to contract out to, do provide us with jobs, and should provide some backup. Also as you said they should look to those that pay them for their fees, NOT to those they hire! JMO

Reply by NJDiva on 6/22/11 1:08pm
Msg #387246

Okay, Okay...

I concede to that ideology Les and appreciate that perspective. I didn't really consider that side of it.

However, your key words were "there is a need for the good SS."

I stand corrected to those reputable, honest, decent companies out there that DO, in fact, resemble your description. And I work for a number of them that are IN that category.

I should have made the disclaimer that those that ARE reputable, fair companies are absolutely excluded.

I was pretty much responding to that particular person (company, whatever!!) Really didn't appreciate that "tone"...lmao!!!

Thanks for reminding me of that very important perspective.

Cheryl

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/22/11 2:12pm
Msg #387265

Re: NJDiva

* Like do you hire your own maintenance, or janitorial people, or do you contract it out? If you are a large company maybe you hire your own, if smaller perhaps contract out. At any rate these SS's that Title does decide to contract out to, do provide us with jobs, and should provide some backup.*

But, it is not just the title company's (for instance) maintenance involved.
-the quality of the notary's performance is left to chance based on how "low will you go"
-the lender is depending on the notary
-the borrower is depending on the notary
-the SS just depends on taking a healthy cut and bargaining down

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/22/11 5:42pm
Msg #387318

Re: NJDiva

Excellent points, Brenda. And this illustrates a very different business model than what I'd bet most signing service owners had in mind years ago when the first signing services came onto the scene. When the focus changes from providing a service that fills an existing need to trying to figure out a way to to justify your existence and squeeze some of the revenue out of the process, the impact is far-reaching!

Obviously, we still have companies at both ends of that spectrum. But as market conditions change, many will find it easier to move their focus and compete on price, vs. finding new ways to serve their clients and add value. As we know only too well, it creates new challenges for everyone involved.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/22/11 12:12pm
Msg #387239

Sonya you forgot the largest item(s) on the list. That is having the reserve capital to pay your notaries when scheduled (or as soon after as possible depending on your accounting/invoicing/time available to cut and post checks) regardless of if or when you get paid from Title. This amount will vary from $25000 to $50,000 and up depending on volume. If you borrow that money and include the interest on it you will find yet another expense to add on to your overhead. Unless you are a semi-deadbeat that doesn’t pay the notary if the deal cancels or does not fund, or if you wait until you get paid before you pay your contracted notaries making them wait (thereby financing you) 45 to 90 days for payment? Oh and don’t forget taxes. Sounds to me like you need a class like SS 101? JMO.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/11 1:02pm
Msg #387245

Sonya, I honestly don't give a flip about an SS's overhead

Let's keep in mind that a portion of the fee you collect per closing from title includes our fee - and that money should be passed on to US before you worry about paying overhead. Some companies use OUR money for their own purposes and that's just wrong - ever hear of misappropriation of funds?

And what company are you from?

Reply by GOLDGIRL/CA on 6/22/11 1:08pm
Msg #387247

Sonya, darling, wake up!

Sonya - I don't know whether to laugh or cry re your post enlightening us ignorant notaries about how costly it is to run a SS. In fact, your post is so incredibly insulting that I think you're really a troll. Nonetheless, if you are for real (gawd forbid!) the bottom line is that if you can't pay all those expenses AND the whiny notaries you are cursed having to deal with you should leave and go find another whipping boy. To expect notaries to take it in the shorts while you clearly are in over your brainless head shows several things, among them: You didn't know anything about running a SS when you entered this field. To quote the veteran Susan Fisher: the SBA has lots of "How to Run a Business 101" classes you shoulda looked into before you became affiliated with an enterprise you can't pay for and are now taking it out on the notary. It also shows you have bad negotiating skills with the lenders/TCs who entrust you to get the loans signed.

Oh, and you pay "employee medical insurance?" How sweeet of you. Keep in mind notaries have to buy their own medical insurance. Also like you, we buy office supplies. The good fairy does not tuck printers, toner, letter/legal paper and binder clips under our pillows every night. Also cars cost money as well as gas... but you clearly don't know anything about that.
Your ignorance is stunning. As far as telling us to "get real and quit complaining," you should follow your own advice.

And if you think we're buying your "volume" theory, that only further proves your contempt for notaries. Reminds me of a SS I used to work for - not bad pay, but not good - but I kept verrrry close to home. Then they wanted to use me all over the place, but refused to pay more $$. They tried to reel me in, saying, "you're our best notary, so we want to give you first chance on all our signings. Think volume." No thanks. It doesn't add up. Actually, it does. More money for the SS and less for the notary!

Reply by Les_CO on 6/22/11 1:32pm
Msg #387259

Re: Sonya, darling, wake up!

I couldn’t have said it better !

There is NO “economy of scale” in the service business! Driving ten hours to a signing costs 10 times more in time and expense than driving one hour. Printing out ten loan packages cost ten times more (it time and expense) than printing one. We are not making beer cans here. Volume just means more time and expense to us. Methinks Sonya’s a twit. JMO

Reply by LauriecPA on 6/22/11 2:05pm
Msg #387264

The SS that called me last week

and wanted me to go out on Sunday at 3pm (Father's Day) for a Bo's/buyers pkg w/ email docs, said they couldn't afford to pay me $125 b/c they only got $120.

They don't sound like they'll be around very long!

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 3:21pm
Msg #387287

Re: Sonya, darling, wake up!

How come if you defend a SS on this site you are automatically stripped of your authenticity as a notary and considered a troll?

Believe it or not, there are SS out there that make some notaries a very nice living, and are great to work with.

My guess is if you have not found one of those companies then you are either in a crappy area, or you are a crappy notary?

What is the spread you expect to make on a signing? If you are clearing over 70%, which if you have your business set up right is easy to do, even with gas and other increasing prices, then you should be happy.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/11 3:39pm
Msg #387294

"If you are clearing over 70%...."

Is that after federal and any applicable state taxes?

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 3:49pm
Msg #387296

Re: "If you are clearing over 70%...."

Good accounting is key.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/11 3:57pm
Msg #387298

No..good math is key..

Explain to me how one can clear 70% of their fee when the first 25-30% is taxes, and that's before any expenses are deducted - we're not talking SE tax here...we're talking INCOME tax - and all income is taxable on a federal level.

Oohh...of course, that is IF one claims all their income on their tax return.

Haven't gotten to expenses yet and we're down to 70-75% already.

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 4:08pm
Msg #387301

Re: No..good math is key..

I wont argue my ability to file taxes against yours.

And you are deflecting the point of my reply. This thread is completely biased by notaries who have not been able to market themselves effectively to the SS in addtion to managing their own business.

And those of us that have...we are obviously trolls or have some SS driven agenda.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/11 4:16pm
Msg #387302

My response to you is not about filing taxes

My response to you is about your statementabout "clearing 70%" - you said that...I asked how - and honestly? It's impossible.

And IMO the SS's ability to pay their overhead bills is not my problem - that's their problem, and if they're undercharging and dipping into MY pocket to make up their shortfall, then that's unacceptable. A company collects, let's say $150/signing, contracts a notary for $125 - please explain why that company can't forward the notary's $125 to them?? According to Sonya, it's because of the overhead expenses - so SS's are using the notary's money to pay their overhead? And the notary that completed the job that EARNED them the $150 goes unpaid?? You don't see anything wrong with that?? I sure do..

JMO

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 4:25pm
Msg #387304

Re: My response to you is not about filing taxes

But without the SS would you have even known about that closing? Or had the opportunity to make $125? NO...

I guess that is what seperates us. I value my relationship with the SS's that use me, without them I am left on my own to solicit directly to the Title Companies or rely on being found on websites.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/11 6:03pm
Msg #387324

Re: No..good math is key..

"This thread is completely biased by notaries who have not been able to market themselves effectively to the SS in addtion to managing their own business."

You mean marketing themselves by accepting low ball fees?? Looking at the notaries who have replied in this thread they are all experienced notaries who can command the high fees and know what it costs in terms of their time, equipment etc.
Too many notaries willing to accept lowball fees not doing the math and realize they are practically working for free.
Only monkeys work for peanuts.

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 6/22/11 3:40pm
Msg #387295

Dear Sonya: suuuure, I'll just do more volume! I'll do ten

times more signings just for the honor of going from underpaid to grossly underpaid! Then I'll go out & shake some magic notary tree and wait for toner, paper, health insurance and all the other expenses you mentioned to come raining down! Wait a minute: we have the same expenses??? Oops, I forgot to mention gas, car insurance, auto repairs & time! Maybe I'll just fly above the traffic (to save time & avoid speeding tickets) & pimp-slap the BOs if they dare try to read or ask questions - afterall, I DO have my voulme to achieve! Silly me! <:-0

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/22/11 3:58pm
Msg #387299

You can't be serious

"that just leaves more for the notaries that can be flexible on fees giving them more volume."

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard this argument, I would be retired now...

You CANNOT make money on volume when almost all of your costs are fixed, as they are for the typical SA. Probably the only variable cost is travel, and that's out of the SAs hand for most part - and not even accounted for when an SS offers an assignment.

Taking more work at a loss when your per-job costs are fixed means you will just lose more money faster - that's Finance 101. Anyone who thinks they'll make more money by taking a lot of jobs at a fee that won't make them a profit is, at best, mathematically challenged. And anyone who suggests it's possible is being disingenuous.

Obviously, you either own or work for an SS, and feel the need to justify the money you make off the backs of other people. Here's a news flash for you - we really don't care what your expenses are. That's YOUR problem, and you need to either figure out a way to deal with it or get out of the business. Don't expect hard-working professionals to lose money just so you can make a profit.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/11 4:01pm
Msg #387300

Touche Mike!! n/m

Reply by HrdwrkrVA on 6/22/11 5:20pm
Msg #387312

Agreed Mike! I can't tell you how many times an SS has said

"We're only getting $90 or $100 for this closing" Whaaaat? They've got to be joking (or lying)!I get more than that myself when I deal directly w/ a TC! Poor marketing is their problem - not mine - get out of the business, & don't call me - or work at a loss like you expect us to !! SMH!

Reply by jba/fl on 6/22/11 5:23pm
Msg #387313

SMH??? n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/11 5:27pm
Msg #387315

Re: SMH???

Shaking My Head????

Reply by jba/fl on 6/22/11 8:09pm
Msg #387349

why do people think they have to text here? n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/11 8:35pm
Msg #387353

Re: why do people think they have to text here?

No idea
I had to google it to find out what it could be.

Of course, I guess putting SMH at the end of the post is not much different than when someone puts IMHO or other acronyms - although I think everyone knows what IMHO is.

Have to admit I know nothing about texting abbreviation - never used texting.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/11 5:26pm
Msg #387314

Will somebody please pass me a violin!!!!

Sonya, honey, if you are a SS then you should take into consideration all those expenses when quoting your services fee to title companies plus what you should be paying the notary, which should not be less than $125!!!!

And please don't tell me that I have NO idea what goes into running a SS! I do!!!

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 5:38pm
Msg #387317

I hate to just constantly disagree with the majority on this thread. But Sylvia, if you think raising your fee to the Title Company in this market is an option, then you dont know what it takes to run a SS.

Goes the same for us. If a Title Company or SS has a closing in your area, and they know they can get you for $125 or Joe Notary for $100...who do you think they are going to call?

When the market is down, raising fees is the last thing you can do...Business 101

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/11 5:58pm
Msg #387323

KSMONotary - thank you for making my day

I really got a laugh out of your post.

I am sure someone will enlighten you as to what is amusing about it LOL

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 6:04pm
Msg #387325

Re: KSMONotary - thank you for making my day

Sounds like a concession to me...so in turn, thank you for making my day.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/11 6:10pm
Msg #387326

Re: KSMONotary - thank you for making my day

No - no concession at all. Sorry not making your day here. But you sure made mine LOL

Signing Services have to take into consideration the notary fee (which should not be less than $125 with edocs, $100 overnight) along with their other expenses when quoting a fee to the title company.

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 6:13pm
Msg #387327

Re: KSMONotary - thank you for making my day

Can you break out that $125 for me from an expense standpoint. Maybe I can help you here, cause if you need $125 a file to be sucessful in this industry then you are doing something wrong, or not doing enough things right.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/11 6:16pm
Msg #387329

Re: KSMONotary - thank you for making my day

I don't need your help thank you KSMO.

I have been successful in this industry for over 10 years

(And one has to make a profit, not just cover expenses)

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 6:21pm
Msg #387330

Re: KSMONotary - thank you for making my day

My highschool debate teacher would be gleaming...have a good night

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/11 6:23pm
Msg #387331

Re: KSMONotary - thank you for making my day

I am sure your high school teacher would advise you to research who you are debating with before having a debate (suggest you ask him/her when you show up for class tomorrow)

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 6:25pm
Msg #387334

Re: KSMONotary - thank you for making my day

Let me guess you own or have owned or worked at a SS...small world.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/22/11 7:20pm
Msg #387340

Re: KSMONotary - thank you for making my day

Owned, paying notaries $135 (not the $125 I said should be the lowest) for edocs and $100 for overnight. And the check went out the day after the signing (sometimes the same day) so the notaries didn't have to worry about when their check would arrive.

Only closed down late last year due to health reasons. But the title companies still call me looking for a signing agent, so I find one for them and let them work directly with the notary.

There is no reason a signing service cannot pay $125 for edocs unless they are lowballing the title companies to get the business. And there is no valid reason notaries should have to wait as long as they do for their checks. Poor management on the SS part.

So I do know what I am talking about.

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 6:44pm
Msg #387337

Re: KSMONotary - thank you for making my day

And p.s. it's summer break

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/11 6:24pm
Msg #387333

KMSO..I'd beware of where I tread..

these last few posts by you to Sylvia show you have not done your homework and have no idea who or what you're talking about...I'd let it rest if I were you ..

Just a friendly piece of advice...

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/22/11 6:28pm
Msg #387336

Re: KMSO..I'd beware of where I tread..

Thanks for the advice. I think I am ok.

Its funny how no one answers my questions...just throws their weight around like they are someone.

Reply by docs1954CA on 6/22/11 7:54pm
Msg #387347

KMSO..I'll answer your question;

"Its funny how no one answers my questions...just throws their weight around like they are someone."

Okay, here's the answer----ready??? It's called PROFIT!!! OURS, not theirs. 9 times out of 10 when a SS says " we're only getting $125.00" or whatever number they pull out of their rear end, they are lying.

By the way, as goldgirl said and others have said, I think you're a troll too.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 6/22/11 9:40pm
Msg #387355

Re: KMSO..I'll answer your question;

Apparently (s)he IS making a profit, if you believe it - (s)he said to the rest of us "If you are clearing over 70%, which if you have your business set up right is easy to do, even with gas and other increasing prices, then you should be happy. "

I'd be tickled pink if I profited 70% of my fee!!

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/23/11 11:01am
Msg #387396

Re: KMSO..I'll answer your question;

Actually the question I asked was to have the fee of $125 broke out by expenses. I am just curious what profit margin she expects to operate within in the current atmosphere of this industry. So, again...you dodge the question. I wonder why?

The industry is changing, adapt your business model or become extinct Dinosaurs.

Sincerely,

The Troll (A.K.A. the notary that still defends the SS)

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/23/11 11:58am
Msg #387405

Re: KMSO..I'll answer your question;

"Actually the question I asked was to have the fee of $125 broke out by expenses. I am just curious what profit margin she expects to operate within in the current atmosphere of this industry"

Figure out your own expenses and profit margin - take into consideration the taxes you have to pay on the fee you receive.

I used to be a signing agent myself until opening my own signing service. In my opinion I would have been insulting my notaries by paying them less than what I did.
And the current atmosphere of this industry is not much different than it was late last year.
Title companies are still getting the same fees per signing, so there is no reason for signing services to reduce their fees to the title company and pay their notaries less.

You are doing a disservice to the notaries on this forum by defending low ball signing services.
I am sorry your experience is such that you can only work for those type of companies.
But if you got off your butt and put some effort into marketing and marketed yourself to the title companies and good paying reputable signing services then you would be more successful - instead of relying on SS's to give you work.
(You said in a previous post that without the SS you would be left on your own to solicit directly to title companies or rely on being found on websites)
You will find that the notaries on here who are successful are the ones who took the time and the effort to market themselves to the title companies instead of relying on lowball signing services for work.

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/23/11 2:49pm
Msg #387420

Re: KMSO..I'll answer your question;

Sylvia, you have deflected once again.

Understand that I know a lot more then you may think about SS's.

I do not agree with Service Link mandating $65 for edoc signings. That fee is ridiculous.

If you revert back to my original post you will see that my initial argument was against the responders calling notaries foolish for accommodating their fees around the SS. If you can’t understand that, then you are simply not as versed in National Signing Services and Notaries as you have apparently convinced everyone on here that you are. Plain and simple.

Do you know what most signing services are? They are branches of the Title companies. They simply developed a company by eliminating a step in the process that their closers use to do, put a bunch of people in the next room to do that step, and called it a company.

Sure there may be a few stand alones out there, they may have even seen success, but the signing services that were here yesterday, and are going to be here tomorrow, are the ones backed by Title. And if you think you can survive by standing your ground and thinking that your profit margin is not going to adjust with the market…well, good luck to you.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/23/11 3:30pm
Msg #387428

Re: KMSO..I'll answer your question;

"If you revert back to my original post you will see that my initial argument was against the responders calling notaries foolish for accommodating their fees around the SS"

Notaries are not foolish for accomodating their fees around the SS! I saw your original post and the ones following it. Those that reduce their fees to accomodate a signing service are doing a great disservice, not only to themselves, but to the signing agent profession.

I disagree that most signing services are branches of title companies. But then I have been in this business over 10 years.

I already told you that I closed my signing service down late last year due to health reasons - but the title companies still call me and I do find them notaries but let them work directly with the notary.

I have never had a need to convince anyone on here about my knowledge (and I certainly have no intention of convincing you). Many of NotRot notaries have done signings for me.

Reply by KSMONotary on 6/23/11 5:00pm
Msg #387439

Re: KMSO..I'll answer your question;

Sylvia, I dont doubt your knowlegde at all. I know a little bit about you too .

But I am sorry I still disagree that a notary that lowers their fee is doing a disservice to themselves? Now are they creating tougher competition in the market for other agents, of course. But as a business owner you will agree that you have to adapt to things like that or be preparred to suffer a loss of revenue.

I welcome intelligent debate as well, I just struggle with the automatic label of a troll if you disagree with the majority here. I have really enjoyed our conversation, and I mean that.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/23/11 5:30pm
Msg #387451

Re: KMSO..I'll answer your question;

For the record I haven't said you (or anyone else) were a troll.

Of course a notary that lowers their fee is doing themselves a disservice, their expenses have gone up with the price of gas etc. Plus once they agree to accept a lower fee the SS will always expect them to accept lower fees.
Title companies haven't lowered their fees to the borrower and reputable signing services are still getting good fees from the title company, why should the notary accept a lower fee (and in a lot of cases wait several months to get paid, if at all) just to support a greedy signing service.
When the signing services only offer lowball fees, then they deserve to get low quality, inexperienced notaries.

When I announced I was closing my signing service I had PM's and e-mails from signing services that post here asking me for my client list. I wouldn't give my client list to anyone. I preferred to let the title companies have access to my notaries direct, that was the only way I could be sure that notaries who worked with me would be sure to get top fees for the signings.

Reply by Les_CO on 6/22/11 10:31pm
Msg #387360

Re: KMSO..I'd beware of where I tread..

All I can say is that I’m not a troll. I happen to believe that a good, honest, knowledgeable Signing Service is a boon to this business, and that they are far from parasites. The low-ballers deadbeats and thieves are another story. However after reading your posts all I can say is when you’ve learned half of what Sylvia’s forgotten about this business feel free to call me for an assignment. My fees are posted as they have been for years.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/22/11 8:14pm
Msg #387351

"When the market is down, raising fees is the last thing you can do"

That is a defeatist attitude. If expenses are up, of course you can raise your fees. Think a little more clearly here.

Reply by Notarysigner on 6/22/11 5:45pm
Msg #387322

and the nerve

As a side note, have you noticed the tone used by the "Sonya's", "Ann's" among others? Like they're doing you a favor. Why would a SS have the attitude of a fortune 500 co.?