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Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :)
Posted by  Marian_in_CA of CA on 12/4/10 4:21pm Msg #363939
Here's where I get a lot of flack here. Smile But it's just my opinion....


Remember, in California, notaries are NOT responsible for the content of a document. This is clearly noted in our handbooks on page 18:

"...a notary public’s function only relates to the signature and not the contents of the document."

As a notary (and just a notary, not a signing agent) all you care about is if the person's signature matches the one on their ID. If this woman signed her documents as "Alejandra" and that signature matched her ID, then I would have ZERO issue with continuing with the signing. If, however, she signed as "Alex"? Forget it... simply because her signature doesn't match.

You are notarizing the signature of the person, not the content (including preprinted names) on the documents. The only exception to this rule is with acknowledgments, though. Gov't Code 1185 notes that:

"The acknowledgment of an instrument shall not be taken unless the officer taking it has
satisfactory evidence that the person making the acknowledgment is the individual who is
described in and who executed the instrument."

It goes on to say, however:

"For the purposes of this section “satisfactory evidence” means the absence of any
information, evidence, or other circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe
that the person making the acknowledgment is not the individual he or she claims to be..."

In other words, you need to make a reasonable determination. Nowhere does it state that the names MUST match, but that, for the purposes of an acknowledgment, you should be reasonably certain it is the same person. Now, what, exactly, does that mean? You have to follow standard ID rules and your own business practices for that.

The thing is, though... our handbook is fairly contradictory on this. I've talked about this before, and it's frustrating because several of us have different interpretations of it... all of which, IMO, are valid interpretations.

why?

1. The rule about the person making an acknowledgment being described in the document is kind of vague, and it only applies to acknowledgments, not jurats.

2. We're told that we're NOT responsible for contents of documents and that our job (as a notary) only applies to the signature itself.

3. Nowhere in the law or our handbooks are we told that names MUST MATCH exactly. We're told that we should be reasonably certain that the person is who they claim to be, and to match their signature to the ID presented.

4. The idea of "satisfactory evidence" can be interpreted several ways, even though we are given rules about establishing it. What one person thinks is "reasonable" may not be to another. Robert and Bob are probably the same person, right? What about Mary and Maria? They are actually essentially the same name. And what about Richard and Dick? Those two names are nothing alike, and yet one is a common nickname for the other.

Now... all of what I noted above applies solely to our jobs a Notaries. When acting in the role of a Signing Agent, it gets trickier. I, for one, NEVER EVER instruct people to sign exactly as written in the documents. I will note requests from companies to them, but I won't tell them they have to. Why? Because my own legal signature may not match what somebody types on a document. My legal signature is not all spelled out, and I will only sign the way I always sign.... if somebody tells me to sign some other way, it's not my legal signature.

What if there are typos? Why should I be forced to sign something to reinforce somebody else's mistake?

If the name on the documents is wrong, that's not our fault and is something that should be fixed before.

Most of the time, if the borrower signs as their ID notes, and (for acks) I'm reasonably certain the name variation is close enough, then I'm fine with it --- but ONLY if their signature on the docs matches their ID. Otherwise, it's not happening. The way I see it, our job is to match the signatures.... not pre-printed words, which can be wrong.

As for credible witnesses in this case? It's not an option. The person has valid ID.
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Messages in this Thread
 Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) - Camellia Preciado on 12/4/10 1:44am
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) -  Ilene C. Seidel on 12/4/10 5:15am
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) - Virginia/PA on 12/4/10 9:54am
 I agree with you that I don't think CW's can be used here -  Linda_H/FL on 12/4/10 10:18am
 Re: I agree with you that I don't think CW's can be used here -  Ilene C. Seidel on 12/4/10 1:21pm
 Linda -  Ilene C. Seidel on 12/4/10 1:31pm
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) -  James Dawson on 12/4/10 10:41am
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) - Stoli on 12/4/10 10:41am
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) - MrEd_Ca on 12/4/10 12:51pm
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) -  Marian_in_CA on 12/4/10 4:21pm
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) -  JanetK_CA on 12/5/10 3:50am
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) - camellia/ca on 12/4/10 5:50pm
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) -  Marian_in_CA on 12/4/10 7:15pm
 getting in a little late, but it seems to me the easy way - Roadie_MD on 12/4/10 7:45pm
 Re: getting in a little late, but it seems to me the easy way - Lee/AR on 12/5/10 1:29am
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) -  LKT/CA on 12/4/10 11:25pm
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) -  JanetK_CA on 12/5/10 4:24am
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) -  LKT/CA on 12/5/10 12:02pm
 Re: Id and Documents dont match,and I had to leave,,advise pl :) -  Jodith Allen on 12/6/10 12:28pm



 
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