Posted by Jon on 2/25/05 12:23pm
Msg #22448

Basic notary questions

My questions for all posters that ask basic notary questions.

If you go to the dentist and he says "Just a minute while I go check an online message board to see which size drill to to use for your root canal", are you still going to be sitting in the chair when he comes back??

If you go to a mechanic and he tells you "I'm going to check with a message board for mechanics to find out how where I put the oil into your car", is he now going to be your "go to" guy for all your car repair needs??

You get on a plane and the pilot makes an announcement "Please be patient, I'm checking online to find out how to start the engines", will you stay on the plane or ask for a different flight(or pilot)???

I you are in an accident and you go to a lawyer and he comments that he will "Check online to see if it is ethical to....." never mind, bad example.

My point is that we expect our Dr., mechanic, cable guy, gardener, police, fire fighters, and even fast food workers(we get mad if our "special" is wrong) to know what they are doing. Why should a notary NOT have to know what they are doing??

You can call me mean, rude, condescending, or #@*!@@#*!* I really don't care, but if you are going to be a notary LEARN your state laws.

Reply by Gaylynn-UT on 2/25/05 12:32pm
Msg #22450

Right on Jon!!

Reply by Ernest_CT on 2/25/05 1:00pm
Msg #22454

Thank you! n/m

Reply by ERNA_CA on 2/25/05 1:04pm
Msg #22455

Re: Thank you! n/m

Can I ask a baisic silly quiestion. What dose n/m stand for?

Reply by Ernest_CT on 2/25/05 1:08pm
Msg #22456

n/m == No Message

It means that the readers don't have to actually open the posting, there's no text in the "Message" area. Just kind of a polite thing to do.

You may notice, however, that when most people respond to a posting that has a "n/m" in its "Subject" field, that they usually don't remove the "n/m", so it looks like "Re: Blah blah n/m".

Reply by ERNA_CA on 2/25/05 1:13pm
Msg #22459

Thank you! n/m

Reply by Kat/CA on 2/25/05 1:09pm
Msg #22457

Re: Thank you! n/m

No Message

Reply by Ernest_CT on 2/25/05 1:15pm
Msg #22460

Re: Thank you!

Har, har, har!

Reply by ERNA_CA on 2/25/05 1:21pm
Msg #22463

Re: Thank you! no message just a smile

Reply by Ernest_CT on 2/25/05 2:02pm
Msg #22467

(blushing) Aw, shucks, M'am. 'Tweren't nothin'. n/m

Reply by PepeGSay-VA on 2/25/05 1:44pm
Msg #22465

In order to know what to call you I would have to see what types of "basic notary questions" you are refering to.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 2/25/05 2:15pm
Msg #22470

The "basic notary questions" such as
What is a jurat? What is an acknowledgment? How do I know what certificate to use?
Do I put my stamp on all the documents? What is the difference between a jurat and an acknowledgment? Can I use credible witnesses? (Yes, this is a basic question, depends on the state's notary laws whether credible witnesses can ever be used for notarizations)

I am sure there are more, but these are just a few I have seen asked.

Reply by Cindi on 2/25/05 2:33pm
Msg #22477

Jon..what EXACTLY is your POINT?? Are you saying that notaries shouldn't ask basic questions on a message board?

Doctors and Dentists all have forums or seminars that they go to (or that's available to them) to exchange information, ask questions or to become more educated about their PROFESSION as a group. Well, yes one would expect a doctor, dentist or mechanic to know the basics of their jobs before performing them. (Heck some of them don't though.) Mainly because their jobs are CRITICAL to peoples health, so that's a BIG difference then being a notary. YES, our jobs are very important however, if we walk out without a signature-typically-no one dies!

These message boards are our PROFESSIONAL forum to ask questions and learn about different situations that arise in the field. So, no hopefully a notary won't take a job and not know the first thing about doing a basic notary svc. Yes most of us are aware of the basic laws of our states-that's not what these message boards are for! These boards are mostly helpful-EXCEPT when an loser like you comes on attempting to enlighten people! Most times questions that you may consider stupid someone else may have wanted to ask. Or topics that are talked about on these boards are experiences that other notaries have had and not gotten a chance to talk about yet. News flash...old notaries have questions or have run into situations that they don't know how to handle and bring to these very boards!

I guarantee you that new people will get on these boards everyday and ask the same ole questions-"How do I get started?", "What type of printer should I get?" "What boards should I register on?" If it's appalling to you to see these basic questions on this board-DON'T READ THEM! It will make everyone day more pleasant. Thanks!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 2/25/05 3:15pm
Msg #22488

"I guarantee you that new people will get on these boards everyday and ask the same ole questions-"How do I get started?", "What type of printer should I get?" "What boards should I register on?"

No - these are not basic notary questions, and I don't think Jon meant that.
I believe he means the basic notary stuff like the difference between an acknowledgment and a jurat etc.

You said "These message boards are our PROFESSIONAL forum to ask questions and learn about different situations that arise in the field"

That is so correct. Yet, you will find the other questions asked which are basic notary questions and it is information they should know from their state notary manuals and state notary laws.

These message boards are to learn about different situations that arise in the field, and sometimes we get a document in a package that we haven't come across before.
The message boards aren't for training a notary how to notarize

Reply by Mysti_FL on 2/25/05 4:39pm
Msg #22507

Sylvia,
I studied and crammed for that exam. I am not a great learner from books and the one course I took, also crammed information. S

So guess what, I received a call and took the job and did a good job on that one. Got a call for a second job, and guess what, did another good job. Am I learning as I go? Yes, even the basics since my memory is not the greatest! But, as someone REALLY great on this board said "the beauty of these boards is that if you don't like the repeat questions, just don't read them". Let us newbies learn from those that are willing to teach, no matter how trivial.

Thanks,
Mysti

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 2/25/05 4:51pm
Msg #22512

Mysti

I am always willing to teach - one of the reasons I became a certified notary instructor to tech those three hour classes required.

You did a couple of signings and you did good! That is great - but did you have to ask on the message board the difference between a jurat and an acknowledgment? Bet you already knew if from the studying you did

No matter how long or how little you have been in this business, you are always learning something new

But on basic notary questions, when you ask them on a message board such as this, you may get a lot of wrong answers, mainly because on here are notaries from all states, and all states notary laws differ. For a Florida notary question, you are best advised to look it up in the governors manual or the statutes and not rely on responses you get on a message board - unless they are from Florida for Florida related notary questions- or wherever the notary is from that is asking the question;)


Click on the link to my profile, and send me an e-maill with your info. I do have a signing service covering Florida only, and I would be willing to add you to my database if I get anything in your area

Reply by Mysti_FL on 2/25/05 5:11pm
Msg #22519

Oops, yes I would love for you to add me to your database!
Bare with me as I blunder over my tongue! LOL
Mysti

Reply by Jon on 2/25/05 4:52pm
Msg #22513

Mysti,

I review my notary manual, at least parts of it, on a continuing basis. The more you continue to study, the more that will stick even if your "memory is not the greatest." There will always be times when a situation calls for reviewing state statutes, but asking the difference between an ack and a jurat should not be one of them.

Reply by Mysti_FL on 2/25/05 5:16pm
Msg #22522

Point taken. I guess since I am a) just starting, b) working full time, then sometimes, by speaking with everyone on a board and asking questions and receiving answers, it all just "sticks".

Heck I did the same thing when researching which parrot I should buy.

We all have different ways of internalizing information and I just wanted you guys to be aware and give the newbies a chance to figure out their own way. If the question is stupid, guffaw at your computer and just move on.

Peace?
Mysti

Reply by Jon on 2/25/05 3:21pm
Msg #22489

Cindi inquires:

"Jon..what EXACTLY is your POINT?? Are you saying that notaries shouldn't ask basic questions on a message board?"

No, I'm saying that notaries shouldn't ask basic NOTARY questions on the board. Like how many times do I stamp the document, what's a jurat, what kind of ID can I use, the wording is different for this acknowledgement can I use it, ect. If you have been reading this or any other board for any length of time(like more than a week), you will know exactly what I'm talking about.

Asking about a situation that arises in the field is exactly what this forum and others like it is for and I have no problems helping when I feel I have something to contribute. The problem is that so many of the new notaries became notaries for the sole purpose of doing signings, and the notary part is a side issue for them. As a result, they never take the time to learn their notary laws and come on here asking questions that they should know the answer to before ever doing a notarization.

When I was working for a SS, I did the first part of a split signing. The second notary had no clue what they were doing and I had to re-do all of my notarizations due to their mistakes. I used the pre-printed certs for my part of the signing, the other notary used the same certs that I did. Since I was in QC at the SS, I was able to review the docs before the notary sent them back. Each cert had two counties, the second borrowers name was added to the body of the notarization block, two different notary signatures, and two stamps. The notary told me that they had never heard of attaching a loose cert to a document. All of the certs had to be redone. These are questions that should never have to be asked, based solely on notarial statutes.

In Ca, notaries have an UNLIMITED LIABILITY for ALL damages caused by intentional or UNINTENTIONAL errors. If the title co, lender, escrow, borrower, SS, or all of the above chose to pursue the matter, a notary could find themselves owing a lot of money. Costs could include, but are not limited to, phone calls, man hours, paper, toner, wear & tear on office equipment, per diem interest lost by the new lender, per diem interest paid by the borrower, the difference of a lost rate lock projected over thirty years, ect. Why would anyone WANT to do notarizations without knowing their state laws??

I will now address certain statements you made in your post.

" ...if we walk out without a signature-typically-no one dies!" Your right, but someone may be taken for their life savings because they were coerced into signing and the notary wasn't aware that it is his responsibility to make sure that the signer is signing of their own free will.

"So, no hopefully a notary won't take a job and not know the first thing about doing a basic notary svc. Yes most of us are aware of the basic laws of our states..." I disagree, go back and read some of the archives and then tell me that most know their laws. Perhaps those who just read do, but most of the new notaries post questions that clearly show that they do not know the laws of their state.

"...that's not what these message boards are for!" I agree, and that is precisely my point.

"These boards are mostly helpful-EXCEPT when an loser like you comes on attempting to enlighten people!" I may be a loser, but I know my state notary laws.

"Most times questions that you may consider stupid someone else may have wanted to ask." Exactly my point again, so many of the new notaries are needing to ask the same basic notary questions, see list above.

Reply by Cindi on 2/25/05 4:03pm
Msg #22497

"When I was working for a SS, I did the first part of a split signing. The second notary had no clue what they were doing and I had to re-do all of my notarizations due to their mistakes. I used the pre-printed certs for my part of the signing, the other notary used the same certs that I did. Since I was in QC at the SS, I was able to review the docs before the notary sent them back. Each cert had two counties, the second borrowers name was added to the body of the notarization block, two different notary signatures, and two stamps. The notary told me that they had never heard of attaching a loose cert to a document. All of the certs had to be redone. These are questions that should never have to be asked, based solely on notarial statutes."

You are correct about those not being questions that should never be asked. However, that would have been a prime opportunity to actually help a new notary! You could have explained to them what they did wrong and tell them to review their notary laws for future reference. Maybe even told them where they could purchase loose certificates. Since you seem to be concerned about new notaries not knowing their jobs and posting basic questions on the board. That would have been a better part of the solution as opposed to just griping about the problem.

All the rest of your post I'm not concerned about..because I'm not a new notary and you haven't told me anything that I wasn't already aware of. I responded to what I wanted to resond to and ignored the rest. Good day.

Reply by Jon on 2/25/05 4:11pm
Msg #22500

I did instruct the notary to review the state handbook and explained what loose certs were and how to use and acquire them.

Reply by Mysti_FL on 2/25/05 4:33pm
Msg #22505

Way to go, Cindi!

Reply by Melody on 2/25/05 2:41pm
Msg #22481

You are exactly right. n/m

Reply by Mike/NJ on 2/25/05 2:45pm
Msg #22483

So I guess all those books doctors and lawyers have are just for looks I guess? Even the mechanic will need to reference a book for a job.

So what is wrong looking up reference to a question one may have? Guess we can't know everything like you.

Reply by Ernest_CT on 2/25/05 2:53pm
Msg #22485

Ah! The key phrase is ...

... "looking up". As in RTFM. As in "Check the Notary Public Manual for your state." Looking up is good (just ask the astronomers). Posting the question(s) from a test you're taking isn't. We're not opposed to helping people who are willing to try finding things themselves first, then posting. Nor are we unwilling to help people who use the "Search" button at the top of this Forum.

Reply by Cindi on 2/25/05 3:06pm
Msg #22487

Re: Ah! The key phrase is ...

Ahhh! Do you know the one GREAT GREAT GREAT feature of this board and the other message boards??

If you don't want to answer a single solitary question or post...YOU DON'T HAVE TO! These board are of your own FREE WILL! Isn't America wonderful!

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/25/05 5:37pm
Msg #22524

Re: Ah! The key phrase is ...

"These board are of your own FREE WILL! Isn't America wonderful!"

Exactly. And sometimes our free will inspires us to take the boneheaded "notaries" to task for their idiotic and inappropriate questions. It works both ways sweetie. God Bless America!

Reply by Mysti_FL on 2/25/05 4:31pm
Msg #22504

Thank you Mike!

Talk about knowing it all! How many years has Jon been doing this? So he knew the answer to every single question BEFORE he got started? He had no moments of indecision or need for confirmation of his information before he gave out the answer or did the job?

And lastly, was JON THE KNOWLEDGEABLE able to walk as soon as he came out of the womb?

Ahhhh, should we be as well versed in all aspects of life as he is.

To the rest of you who do not feel the same, thank you for answering my silly questions when I ask them. You give me the confidence to learn, grow and possibly earn a living. I will be sure and forward the favor to other newbies when I have some experience under my belt!

Had to do it, Jon! Sorry! LOL
Mysti

Reply by Jon on 2/25/05 4:36pm
Msg #22506

Mysti_FL queries:

"...was JON THE KNOWLEDGEABLE able to walk as soon as he came out of the womb?"

No, it took me 7 months.

Reply by Mysti_FL on 2/25/05 4:42pm
Msg #22509

Well, that was fun. Now back to the real reason I came to this board.
LOL

Reply by HisHughness on 2/25/05 4:58pm
Msg #22515

Sorry, Mysti_FL. I came to this discussion late, having been pretty busy this week.

You are a jackass. Along with a few
others, Jon is one of the more productive contributors to this board. Among the productive things he does is to tell neophytes, firmly, that they should do their homework before taking up other people's time.

Your jackassery is rendered all the more regrettable because you appear to be fairly bright, from the limited number of posts I have read -- and read quite handily, I might add, because you have a facility with language rare on the Internet forums. What a shame. I'm not sure how long it will take in your case, but I hope by the time you are as long in the tooth as I am you have stowed your tendency to shoot from the lip and are more prone to pay attention to people who know whereof they speak, as is the case with Jon. (He may be short on consonants in his given name, but not on wisdom.) Unfortunately, if it takes that long -- and there are some on forum who will need that amount of time -- you won't have many years left to actually practice your craft effectively.

Reply by Mysti_FL on 2/25/05 5:19pm
Msg #22523

Look Huge, Jon can take care of himself. He put me in my place quite nicely without your help. Thanks!
Mysti

Reply by Anonymous on 2/25/05 4:03pm
Msg #22498

Is this JON the GREAT talking as if we are his child,,,,,,AGAIN?

Tulip /VA

Reply by BrendaTX on 2/25/05 11:52pm
Msg #22574

Oath? So what? (Harmonizing with Jon the Great)

-Notaries take an oath to fulfill their duties and to uphold the office.

-The duties of office are in the Notary Rules and/or *laws.*
If you do not know the notary laws you do not know how to fulfill your duties or uphold the office.

-So?
You have lied under oath. You swore to do something you do not even know the basics of....and you did it knowingly.

-"What?? Lying under oath? Oh Pulease!"
--Yep. For fun, Google up "perjury" or "aggravated perjury"
-- For Tx - Read Sec. 37.02 Texas Penal Code - Perjury and Sec. 37.03. Aggravated Perjury

-What if I did not know that?
It does not matter. Ignorance of the notary laws you swore to uphold is not a defense for not knowing them. It's your choice to continue to be ignorant. And, remember that you took an oath that you will uphold them....Ooops!!!

-Why does it matter if I post basic notary questions?!!!?
Because you prove that yet another notary is too shallow to know the difference between a paper shuffling job with a fancy stamper-thingy and being a public official.

Why don't you butt out????
Never.


Why don't you learn your notary laws.


(BTW Texans- In Texas, you are required to appear before an officer (other notary) to swear you in before you start notarizing. The oath arrives with your commission. )

Reply by Ernest_CT on 2/26/05 1:32am
Msg #22591

Re: Oath? So what? (chiming in to form the chorus)

Go Brenda!

In CT the oath of office is administered by the Town Clerk (or Assistant) in the town in which the notary resides or has the principal place of business. They do take "public official" seriously.