Posted by peterole_MN on 2/7/05 11:43am
Msg #19620
E & O Insurance and General Liability Insurance
1. The limit of E & O offered by the NNA is 25,000... any of you carry more? If you have the extra coverage, with what company?
2. My home insurance person and a friend in a SS office suggested that I should also check into General Business Liability coverage. This would cover events like if I damage property or a person in the home of a client...any of you carry this type of coverage.
THNX
| Reply by ColleenCA on 2/7/05 12:39pm
Msg #19626
In my state, I purchased E&O through NNA for $100,000. The carrier is Surety Bond Company, the same company that my $15,000 bond was purchased through. Sorry, I have not heard of the other insurance, although if you hurt yourself or damage something on someone's property, usually their homeowners insurance covers that (at least in California). Hope this helps.
| Reply by peterole_MN on 2/7/05 1:46pm
Msg #19637
Thanks... in MN, limit NNA offers is only 25,000.
| Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 2/7/05 1:57pm
Msg #19638
Regarding Question #2...
...the proper terminology is Commercial General Liability (CGL) insurance & as you say it would cover any property damage you may cause while in a borrower's home. It'll also protect you up to the policy limits for any bodily injury you may cause. You might now say "how could I hurt someone at a signing?". Let's say it's an elderly borrower who gets up from the table, trips over your poorly placed portfolio on the floor, takes a nasty spill, & breaks their hip. Guess who's going to get sued and contrary to the advice of ColleenCA, it's a virtual certainty your homeowners insurance will NOT come to your aid. The vast majority of personal homeowners insurance policies are just that...personal...and don't provide for any business exposures. I've carried a $1 million CGL insurance policy on my business from the day I stepped into my first borrower's home four years ago. Within the past few days I received my annual renewal policy & it runs me a grand total of $201.00 per year. It'd be worth it to me to have this coverage at twice that price.
BTW, I'll issue my usual disclaimer at this point. I have a 28 year background in the property & casualty insurance industry in the State of Missouri as an insurance agent/producer. My comments are NOT to be construed as advice, only commentary. Please contact an insurance professional in the state in which you reside if you desire to obtain more information on the risks you take without having this kind of policy in place & how a CGL policy can address these risks.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/7/05 3:12pm
Msg #19651
Personal Liablity Policy
Said Dennis: **I've carried a $1 million CGL insurance policy on my business from the day I stepped into my first borrower's home four years ago. Within the past few days I received my annual renewal policy & it runs me a grand total of $201.00 per year. It'd be worth it to me to have this coverage at twice that price.***
Dennis: A story about Personal Liablity Policies.
-----
Once upon a time I was the mother of a teenage boy. His dad (ex-husband) and I bought a pretty green GMC step side for him. It was in his daddy's name and I paid my part of the payment monthly to his dad.
His dad, a wonderful man, although tight as Dick's hatband, thought he'd be sly and not tell the insurance company that his son was the true driver and that the truck was parked in my driveway. I did tell my insurance people about the young driver. And, I told them about ex's choice on this matter. Together, my agent and I elected to add son as a driver of my car. My insurance premium went up, of course. (Earlier in the year I had purchased a liability policy for $200.)
One bright morning the phone rang at my desk at work and my son had been in a head on collision. He had a seatbelt bruise and walked away-Praise God.
He did not receive a ticket because he was run off the road by another vehicle who did not stop. However, his father - owner of the truck was sued .... and viciously, I might add. So was his step-mother who has a good bit of separate assets.
Guess what paid out $1,000,000 to the woman he hit? Yep...I produced my insurance policies and made it possible for this woman to get the medical coverage she needed. AND, she did need it.
His dad's insurance was dropped but they were not sued out of house and home because I had a liability policy.
Son's great.
Woman in wreck is great.
Dad and wife have retired and have a new house.
And me...well, I became a Notary Signing Agent . 
| Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 2/7/05 3:58pm
Msg #19654
I Believe What You're Referring To...
...is a Personal Umbrella policy. That's an entirely different animal than a Commercial General Liability insurance policy. Once again the key, operative word here is...personal. A Personal Umbrella policy is insurance designed to provide coverage over & above your personal auto & homeowners policies. In the example you've given, the claim would've first been made against the auto insurance carrier (which may or may not be the same company as the umbrella) & the limits of that policy would have to be exhausted before the umbrella coverage kicks in. All insurance carriers (at least in the State of Missouri) require the underlying limits of auto & homeowners policies to be a certain amount. For instance my carrier requires limits of $500,000/$500,000/$100,000 on our auto & $300,000 on our homeowners.
In any event a Personal Umbrella policy will not provide you with coverage for business pursuits. I'm going to quote the exact verbiage from my policy:
"EXCLUSIONS: business activities or business property of any insured..."
Taking out a Personal Umbrella policy doesn't guarantee the insured will be covered for their negligent acts as a Signing Agent resulting in bodily injury or property damage. A Commercial General Liability policy will. It's that simple.
BTW, you're to be commended, Brenda, for your foresight in obtaining the proper coverage AND for making sure your son was rated on the auto policy.
| Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 2/7/05 5:41pm
Msg #19678
Clarification!
A Personal Umbrella policy WILL provide me with coverage for using my automobile for business purposes (a CGL policy normally has an exclusion for automobiles). As long as the underlying auto policy provides coverage, the umbrella will too. This does bring up another point. Each of you who are performing signings should advise your personal insurance agent of the fact you're using your automobile for business activities. It's the RIGHT thing to do & let your conscience be your guide!
Once again, this is NOT advice! Seek counsel from your own insurance professional!
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/7/05 6:10pm
Msg #19681
Re: Clarification!
**This does bring up another point. Each of you who are performing signings should advise your personal insurance agent of the fact you're using your automobile for business activities.**
Thanks Dennis. I never thought of that. I WILL!
She knows what I am doing for my job, but not sure she connected the dots. She is a wonderful woman and I need to get with her on this.
| Reply by peterole_MN on 2/7/05 5:21pm
Msg #19671
Re: Personal Liablity Policy
Thanks for a great story. I hope I can my soon. Other readers should "hop to it" also.
| Reply by peterole_MN on 2/7/05 5:18pm
Msg #19670
Re: Regarding Question #2...
THANX. MY current homeowners person is researching the issure for me. I will post the results for me here in MN.
| Reply by ColleenCA on 2/7/05 6:45pm
Msg #19689
Re: Regarding Question #2...
Actually, I didn't say "his homeowners insurance policy". It would be under the coverage of the BO's homeowners insurance policy, at least in California. We had a total remodel and addition on our home, and before allowing any contractors to step foot in our home, I made sure that our homeowners policy would cover any medical that might result from an injury while on the job. Also, any damage done by the workers. The contractors were licensed and insured as well, but my homeowners covers anyone coming on my property.
| Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 2/7/05 9:37pm
Msg #19706
I Apologize...
...if I misconstrued your statement about which homeowners policy you were specifically referring to. However you've just made another statement which brings up another topic for discussion. Most homeowners policies contain an exclusion stating they will NOT pay for bodily injury where workers compensation laws may apply. Here's the wording in my homeowners policy:
"Personal Liability and Medical Payment to Others do NOT apply to bodily injury for which an insured provides or IS LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO PROVIDE COVERAGE UNDER ANY:
1. Workers Compensation Law;
2. Unemployment Compensation;
3. Disability benefits;
4. Occupational Disease Law; or
5. other similar laws."
What this CAN mean to a homeowner is that if your state's laws regarding Workers Compensation require that WC coverage be in force and you as a homeowner have not done due diligence by checking with the company you're hiring to make sure they have a Workers Compensation policy in force; you COULD be liable for any worker getting hurt on your property AND your homeowners insurance policy will NOT cover it. It sounds as if you did your homework on the contractor you hired & they had WC coverage in place. But your statement "my homeowners covers anyone coming on my property" may or may not be factual.
Once again my comments are based on my experience with Missouri insurance law & is NOT to be taken as advice. Consult your own insurance professional in your own state for the definitive answer.
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