Posted by Michael Jimenez on 2/23/05 2:12pm
Msg #22019
NATIONS DIRECT
I have noticed a lot of people bad mouthing Nations Direct for their $40 fees. I have to agree, $40 does seem a little low. But if you think about it, the mortgage industry is a very competitive industry, and for a signing service to survive in the industry, they have to offer competitive rates to the lenders and title companies. I have noticed that Nations Direct does handle a large volume of work, enough for many of us notaries to make a nice living (They do all of the marketing work for us, there is no way I would be able to get 1/100th of the work they offer me on my own) . I started doing signings for Nations about a year ago, and now I have to turn down work because the keep me too busy. Nations seems to be a strong signing company, and I am sure they will be around for a very long time (unlike some of the smaller companies that pay $75, they will probably be out of the industry within 3 years). And, unlike some other signing services, there is always someone available to speak to when I have any questions.
| Reply by Nice Guy on 2/23/05 2:22pm
Msg #22020
You must have more time than I do, my experience with them was they asked you to do alot of extra work, receive docs by email or fax, and after closing fax documents to several different places, it seemed like a waste of my time for $40.00. Anybody else think so? I could go almost anywhere and work for minimum wage!
| Reply by Ernest_CT on 2/23/05 2:43pm
Msg #22021
For $40 I would expect overnighted docs, walk next door or across the street, and drop off the docs next time I went out. No fax backs, no car going out of the driveway, no long distance phone calls. And I'd expect to set the appointment time myself.
| Reply by Fay, CA on 2/23/05 2:46pm
Msg #22023
Re: NATIONS DIRECT - Agree with Ernest
I do believe that those who advocate lesser amounts are actually signing agencies in disguise which is rude to the notaries who frequent this board.
| Reply by MICHAEL on 2/23/05 2:51pm
Msg #22024
then I will make $$$ and you can sit at home and watch oprah
Then all I have to say is THANK YOU for not taking away my work. The less of you that want the work, them more that will come my way. Ohhh, and my 3 year old is thanking you for her college tuition.
| Reply by PAW_Fl on 2/23/05 3:15pm
Msg #22027
Re: then I will make $$$ and you can sit at home and watch o
Okay, here's a comparison for you. Say I take three $40 signings. Chances are that will take 9 hours (on average) counting prep work, driving, table time, driving, post work, driving to drop off. That means I made $120 before taxes and expenses in 9 hours or $13.33 per hour.
Now, let's say I take one signing for $120. It will take about 3 hours of my time to complete. That means I made $120 before taxes and expenses in 3 hours or $40.00 per hour.
I can only do three in a day (four if I want no family life at all). At $40 per signing, that would gross $120 per day ($27,700 per year). At $40 per hour ($83,200 per year), I can do 9 hours and gross $360. Which will provide a full-time income and support a family?
Of course, you won't get three signings each and every workday. Some days you won't even get one.
(Yearly figures based on 2080 hours of work each year or 260 working days.)
Check the math. Do it yourself.
| Reply by MICHAEL on 2/23/05 3:36pm
Msg #22028
Re: then I will make $$$ and you can sit at home and watch o
You said it yourself, some days you don't get any work. With Nations I have work every day, and on most days i have 4 or 5 signings. Also, the work is not as time consuming as you make it out to be. I cover a 20 mile radius in my area, and the average time I spend on these, including driving, signing, faxing and dropping is 1 1/2 hours. The most time consuming thing with the signings is driving. This is very simple work, and I don't expect to make "attorney" money, just a good living.
| Reply by josh , ca on 2/23/05 3:48pm
Msg #22029
Re: hey PAW
If 3 signings take you 9 hours with prep and everything, then you are not worth $6 an hour. Some people just do not have the initiative to make money. As soon as you get off your high horse, you can start making some $$$$$
| Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 2/23/05 4:58pm
Msg #22035
Josh...
...you lose complete credibility (not that you had ANY to start with) by posting under the same IP address as your counterpart, Michael. Which one of you is sitting on the other's lap? Hmmm? I smell a rat running throughout this entire discussion & the stench is on your end. Take your "joshing" to another site, please.
| Reply by Reginald Wilks on 2/23/05 5:13pm
Msg #22036
Re: Josh...
Hey guys I've read all these from a newbee point of view and the more signings I can get right now the better because of the experience. I would like to make more money also but, right now I will take what I can get.
You can start being more demanding after you have enough experience that they can tell what your work looks like and that you are reliable.
Reggie
| Reply by Bobbi in CT on 2/23/05 5:32pm
Msg #22043
$40s and falling ..
I admire your work ethic and your optomisim that signing companies will pay you more after you have more experience.
There is an endless supply of new NSAs every day willing to work for less because they just got their notary commissions, took their one-day course, purchased supplies, purchased a "certification" and are ready to start their Big Bucks career.
the past two years, I have seen the fees the signing companies and title companies are willing to pay reduced. Also, many signing companies have come and gone, leaving the NSA holding a stack of invoices that will never be paid.
I wish you well and hope that when you demand more you receive more, rather than, "No thank you, I'll just call another NSA on our list." Last year I even had one of my regular $50 company schedulers tell me, when I couldn't take an assignment, "Don't worry. We have an NSA who just signed up with us in X town (adjacent to me) who will work for $40. She's new, but we can train her, so we don't need to pay as much anymore."
Good luck and check your profit margin after a few months.
| Reply by John_NorCal on 2/23/05 6:01pm
Msg #22048
Re: $40s and falling ..
Bobbi, I could not agree with you more!
It's not merely the value of ones service, but the costs involved in performing service. When I was doing this in 1993, I never got less than $65.00 per signing, and there were no fax backs, e-docs, etc. Packages were Fed-Xd coming and going. And gas was not selling for $2.20 a gallon like it is now!
So to you $40.00 signers, where do you think you will be down the road in 2-3 yrs if you last that long?
| Reply by Anonymous on 2/23/05 10:50pm
Msg #22096
Re: $40s and falling ..
Sorry guys, I did not realize it was causing the market to drop by taking less at the first. I will change that right now with the next call I get.
Thank you for informing me of what I am doing.
Reggie
| Reply by Josh, ca on 2/23/05 5:14pm
Msg #22037
Re: Josh...
You on the other hand are worth $13 a hour.......... Watson my dear friend , you are a genius.....
| Reply by PAW_Fl on 2/23/05 9:05pm
Msg #22070
Re: Josh...
In this and the other similar thread, the following "names" were used with the same IP address all within a short time span:
Josh , ca
Carrie
MICHAEL
Believer #2
Now, who should we believe?
| Reply by Carrie on 2/24/05 7:23pm
Msg #22251
Re: Josh...
Well, aren't you a smart one? We all work in the same office...there are about 12 notaries here who do closings for Nations Direct, and other signing services as well.
| Reply by PAW_Fl on 2/23/05 9:13pm
Msg #22074
Re: hey PAW
Excuse me?!!?
One signing easily can take 3 hours of my time. On average, my driving time is 40 minutes each way. My "on site" time is pretty close to an hour, most of it at the table. That's almost 2½ hours right there. A little more than ½ hour prep/post time isn't exorbitant. I don't live in a city. And I prefer not to live in a city. So driving time is a key factor in rural America.
I make $$$$$. And not at $40 a pop either. No way is that an equitable fee. (Sorry I had to use words that you probably had to look up in the dictionary, but that's the way it is.)
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/23/05 9:49pm
Msg #22083
Re: hey PAW
3 hours is a good average to consider. So, I agree with the time frame Paul. For a regular WAMU or MIC refi it takes me 45 minutes to fill in each of the notariy certificates before I go to the signing, plus get my journal ready. Signings average 45 minutes to 1.5 hours to get through the stack even when things go rather well.
Drive time - mininum of 15 minutes to 2 hours, then if I have to print out the ID from my camera (because some never have a copy no matter how many times you tell them) and dropping off can easily take another 15-30 minutes depending on the time of day and where I have to make the drop. If there are faxes, that's part of the mix as well.
There's no such thing as a short stack of docs in Texas. And, if there is a 50 page or less stack, it seems like my luck is that there is a typo on the name and each one has to be corrected by hand.
| Reply by fiKS on 2/23/05 5:47pm
Msg #22045
Re: then I will make $$$ and you can sit at home and watch o
I have to say this. Those people who are taking $40 jobs, do you realize that the less you take, the bigger a pie is left for someone else? Even if you're new, don't sell yourself short, guys. Spend your time and money by reading, researching, and marketing. Don't let others take advantage of you. By accepting those $40 jobs, you're really shooting yourself in the foot. I hope you realize that.
| Reply by Paul M. Titus, Sr. on 2/23/05 5:59pm
Msg #22047
Re: then I will make $$$ and you can sit at home and watch o
Keep in mind that when you take a $40.00 job somewhere down the line someone will come in a undercut you by $5 or $10. Only you can blame yourself for selling yourself short.
| Reply by John_NorCal on 2/23/05 6:02pm
Msg #22049
Re: then I will make $$$ and you can sit at home and watch o
Amen!
| Reply by ColleenCA on 2/23/05 6:17pm
Msg #22051
Re: then I will make $$$ and you can sit at home and watch o
I am brand new and have not been on one signing yet. I have, however, turned down 2 40.00 offers. I feel like I am being "stabbed in the back" by other new people because they are just taking those that I turned down. It is getting extremely frustrating to be put in that position. I will continue to turn them down, but I don't know how long it will last if others don't do as I am doing and say no.
| Reply by fiKS on 2/23/05 6:31pm
Msg #22053
You Go Girl!
Colleen: I am farily new myself, and I've turned down every single $40 offer.....but I don't stay home and watch TV either. I am online or on the phone marketing. While others are running around town doing $40 jobs, I'm marketing myself to decent companies. In the long run, we'll see who stays in business. So, hang in there Colleen, you're doing the right thing.
| Reply by ColleenCA on 2/23/05 10:19pm
Msg #22089
Re: You Go Girl!
Thanks for the "props" Fiks!!!! I know what you mean about not sitting around too. Between my real job, marketing my notary business, kids, husband, house etc I'm Pooped!!! Anyway, hopefully someday soon you and I will get a call to do a signing that will be for more then $40.00. I'm beginning to think I am the queen of the $40.00 offer. Good luck to you!
| Reply by Reginald Wilks on 2/23/05 10:54pm
Msg #22097
Re: then I will make $$$ and you can sit at home and watch o
I REALIZE IT!!!!!!!!! Now to redo my fee schedule.
Reggie in KS
| Reply by Anonomus on 2/24/05 8:43am
Msg #22152
Hope she's going to a Jr college
Hope your daughter is going to a Jr college or college in Mexico or Guatemala, cause you aren't going to have much money for her doing $40 signings.
Good Luck, you could make as much money at Burger King and get free lunches too!
| Reply by JanetK/CA on 2/24/05 3:22am
Msg #22130
You're kidding yourself...
...and thinking like an employee, not a business owner, if you're willing to work for that kind of money. When you have a job, your employer pays all your expenses and your benefits, so your hourly rate is actual income, before taxes. If you are self-employed, you pay for everything. All your overhead costs reduce the net profit you actually earn and are probably more than you realize.
By the time you calculate all your business expenses including, but not only, taxes (don't forget SE tax), insurance, materials (including equipment replacement, as well as supplies), auto maintenance and depreciation for all those miles you're driving, commission fees and notary supplies, advertising, etc., etc., you're not making nearly as much as you think you are. A $40 signing fee, with all the associated busy work usually required by companies that are willing to hire someone inexperienced, is probably not much better than minimum wage, calculated as NET earnings vs. gross... And as many have said before, once you start with an agency at a certain rate, it is *extremely* rare for them to increase it. JMHO
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/23/05 10:37pm
Msg #22093
For Michael Jimenez about Nations Direct
MJ:
Here's a deal you (or Nations Direct) cannot refuse...if they really want to get notaries on the wagon for $40 and can provide the volume at that rate as you say...I have a win win propostion for Nations Direct.
I propose:
Since you know the Nations Direct folks rather well, so it seems, you tell them there's an NSA in Texas who will do one of those $40 jobs for them for $0...free, pro bono, nada just for the opportunity to get a hands-on experience with these $40 signings and to see if it's something notaries can benefit from.
And, In return:
If it's as "snappy" as you say it is ...and a good deal for the NSAs...and if there's a good volume to be had at $40 to make it worthwhile, Nations Direct has my word that I'll do my best to convince other notaries to consider it. Some notaries might be thrilled to get 3 or 4 $40 (@ 1.5 hours each) per day. Would I work 6 hours 20 days a month for $160? Yep. You bet.
So...You help me get a look at this deal FOR FREE and I'll tell my friends here if what you say is as good as you say. I am sure Nations Direct will be glad you found a way to convince the rest of the notary world to consider the $40 fees.
What about it, MJ?
Do we have a deal?????
| Reply by Paul/MD on 2/23/05 10:37pm
Msg #22094
Michael,
You do what you have to do for those $40 deals..... First your feeding Nations Direct info that they can get away with what they are doing.
MOST IMPORTANTLY -- you say that they are the ones who are keeping you the most busy. Let me tell you, if one Signing Company/Lender is the one who keeps us 'swimming' or afloat... what happens when they go out of business or screw us.... who do you turn to??
Moral = Don't keep all your eggs in one basket!!!
| Reply by Melody on 2/23/05 11:05pm
Msg #22102
I'm not wearing out my $24K car for $40 signings n/m
| Reply by HARRY_PA on 2/24/05 9:18am
Msg #22158
Re: I'm not wearing out my $24K car for $40 signings n/m
IT NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME HOW STRONG PEOPLES' FEELINGS CAN BE AND HOW SURE THAT THER WAY IS THE ONLY WAY. BOTTOM LINE IS THAT WE ALL DO WHAT WE HAVE TO DO WITHOUT SETTING SOMEONE ELSES AGENDA. OPINIONS ARE GREAT BUT CUT DOWN ON THE VENOM.
| Reply by BrendaTX on 2/24/05 12:21pm
Msg #22180
Re: I'm not wearing out my $24K car for $40 signings n/m
Harry...**IT NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME HOW STRONG PEOPLES' FEELINGS CAN BE ...WITHOUT SETTING SOMEONE ELSES AGENDA. OPINIONS ARE GREAT BUT CUT DOWN ON THE VENOM.**
Aw heck, Harry,
We all care about what we post in reference to. Else we would not post. 
I look at it like this...If such a situation existed where MJ was getting volume daily $40 x 4= $160 x 20= $3200, and if he loved it that much, I don't believe he would want to announce it and cut his own throat.
After you have read 20,000 posts you start realizing how many people are without conscience and will say/do anything to get what they want. Guilty as charged. I usually feel pretty strongly about that kind of stuff.
|
|
