Posted by LauraV on 2/10/05 12:39pm
Msg #20076

$50 jobs really pay less than minimum hourly wage

When you accept a $50 job, you are working for less than minimum wage.
This post is intended to help you realize how high our overhead is and to urge NSAs to never accept less than $65.

TOTAL OVERHEAD COST AVERAGED ON A PER-JOB BASIS

>>> $26 per job <<<

See detailed calculations on how I arrived at $26 below.

What I earn if the job pays:
$50 - $26 overhead = $24
$65 - $26 overhead = $39
$75 - $26 overhead = $49

PER HOUR INCOME FOR JOBS
Each job takes 2.5 hours minimum including all driving: initial phone call, pick up of overnight docs, signing appointment, email or fax report, and drop off to FedEx/UPS box.
Time spent on running the business, marketing, signing up with directories, reading message boards, etc: assume at least 1 hour a day for 16 days a month as a rock-bottom minimum.
$50 - $26 overhead = $24 / 3.5 hrs = $6.85 per hour
$65 - $26 overhead = $39 / 3.5 hrs = $11.14 per hour
$75 - $26 overhead = $49 / 3.5 hrs = $14 per hour

Please remember that when you accept a $50 signing, you are really working for $24.


Thanks to Art_MD for his terrific post on how much money it takes a Maryland NSA just to be legally able to hang out a shingle.


DETAILS OF CALCULATIONS
Computations assume an average of
16 jobs per month or 192 jobs per year.
That's 6 jobs a week in the first half of the month and 10 in the second.
You might get more jobs in Spring and Fall but things are pretty dead during December-January and July-August.

This scenario of 16 jobs per month is provided for NSAs
*who are new OR
*who are in areas already saturated with notaries OR
*who are in rural areas

These calculations are for overnighted docs only. eDoc overhead would be much more.
Don't forget all the extra time to wait for overdue eDocs, print eDocs, and organize them.

Note: I am naturally very frugal. I refill my own toner cartridges. My computer monitor, cell phones, and clothes are second hand. My car gets 38 mpg and there are no loan payments. The numbers below are frugal numbers.


DETAIL OF EXPENSES

Car: $2.50 per job
Gas and oil changes EXTRA to what I spent when I had an office job.
$40 per month = $2.50

Cable internet connection = $2.50 per job
$40 per month = $2.50

Equipment & software= $3.47 per job
Purchases of computer, printer, laser fax equipment, software
$2,000 cost spread over 3 years. = $3.47

Office supplies = $1.87 per job
$30/mo. eDoc supplies would be more.
Toner, journals, rubber stamps, paper, pens, etc. = $1.87

Cell phone $6.25 per job
$100/mo = $6.25

Utilities = $1.56 per job
The extra I pay since I work at home: $25/mo = $1.56

Tax, License, Insurance = $5.20 per job
Income tax; Business tax; Licenses; Commission; Insurances.
Don't forget that Federal SE tax is 15% of adjusted gross income.
Our special exemption is considered = $5.20

Advertising = $2.60 per job
Mostly paying to be listed in online notary directories.

Rent = $0.61 per job
Rent for extra bedroom in apartment $100/mo = $0.61

TOTAL OVERHEAD COST AVERAGED ON A PER-JOB BASIS = $26.56


What I earn *per job* if the job pays:
$50 - $26 overhead = $24
$65 - $26 overhead = $39
$75 - $26 overhead = $49


PER HOUR INCOME FOR JOBS
Each job takes 2.5 hours minimum including all driving:
initial phone call, pick up of overnight docs, signing appointment,
email or fax report, and drop off to FedEx/UPS box.
PLUS
Time spent on running the business, marketing, signing up with directories, reading message boards, etc: assume at least 1 hour a day for 16 days a month.
$50 - $26 overhead = $24 / 3.5 hrs = $6.85 per hour
$65 - $26 overhead = $39 / 3.5 hrs = $11.14 per hour
$75 - $26 overhead = $49 / 3.5 hrs = $14 per hour

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:48pm
Msg #20078

I can't do 125 for a signing unless it has excessive travel. I dislike printing fees greatly, I feel a signing pays $75 for about 45 minutes of work( not including drive time) which works out to $100 dollars an hour. For a hundred bucks an hour I feel people should be willing to print off the necessary docs to complete the job. I would love to pay more but I just can't right now, I was hoping to be able to use you more often but I do understand if our pricing doesn't fit your needs. So just to clarify, all you can cover for me now is Morgan county? Thanks, -Rob-

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:48pm
Msg #20079

I can't do 125 for a signing unless it has excessive travel. I dislike printing fees greatly, I feel a signing pays $75 for about 45 minutes of work( not including drive time) which works out to $100 dollars an hour. For a hundred bucks an hour I feel people should be willing to print off the necessary docs to complete the job. I would love to pay more but I just can't right now, I was hoping to be able to use you more often but I do understand if our pricing doesn't fit your needs. So just to clarify, all you can cover for me now is Morgan county? Thanks, -Rob-

Reply by Deb/CO on 2/10/05 1:32pm
Msg #20098

Let's get this straight--noone is making a $100.00 an hour at this work unless they are mathematically challenged---every single bit of your phone work, driving, printing, signing, driving, packaging, faxing, statusing....again, how much time, really? The other poster was kind enough to illustrate the cost of doing this kind of work and last I looked, I was making min wage in highschool many years ago...I'm well beyond being paid like that, and everyone else here should be, too. There is NOTHING WRONG with making a profit in your business--it allows you to reinvest and provide even better service for your clients. It also allows you to maintain a lifestyle...wow, what a concept.

Bottomline, if it doesn't work for you, you can't take it, but only you know your overhead and what you need to make your business thrive for you. Just remember this--every time they say 'we can't pay that', it simply means 'we don't WANT to pay you that...we want to keep more for ourselves and we'll hunt around on the phone until we find someone cheaper.' What they forget is that while that cheaper notary was not their 'go to person' in the first place, they run the huge risk of it being done wrong or not at all.

Reply by RIGHT ON! on 2/10/05 1:51pm
Msg #20104

Deb...on behalf of other NSA'S...that was very well stated! THANK YOU!

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:48pm
Msg #20080

I can't do 125 for a signing unless it has excessive travel. I dislike printing fees greatly, I feel a signing pays $75 for about 45 minutes of work( not including drive time) which works out to $100 dollars an hour. For a hundred bucks an hour I feel people should be willing to print off the necessary docs to complete the job. I would love to pay more but I just can't right now, I was hoping to be able to use you more often but I do understand if our pricing doesn't fit your needs. So just to clarify, all you can cover for me now is Morgan county? Thanks, -Rob-

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:48pm
Msg #20081

I can't do 125 for a signing unless it has excessive travel. I dislike printing fees greatly, I feel a signing pays $75 for about 45 minutes of work( not including drive time) which works out to $100 dollars an hour. For a hundred bucks an hour I feel people should be willing to print off the necessary docs to complete the job. I would love to pay more but I just can't right now, I was hoping to be able to use you more often but I do understand if our pricing doesn't fit your needs. So just to clarify, all you can cover for me now is Morgan county? Thanks, -Rob-

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:48pm
Msg #20082

I can't do 125 for a signing unless it has excessive travel. I dislike printing fees greatly, I feel a signing pays $75 for about 45 minutes of work( not including drive time) which works out to $100 dollars an hour. For a hundred bucks an hour I feel people should be willing to print off the necessary docs to complete the job. I would love to pay more but I just can't right now, I was hoping to be able to use you more often but I do understand if our pricing doesn't fit your needs. So just to clarify, all you can cover for me now is Morgan county? Thanks, -Rob-

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:48pm
Msg #20083

I can't do 125 for a signing unless it has excessive travel. I dislike printing fees greatly, I feel a signing pays $75 for about 45 minutes of work( not including drive time) which works out to $100 dollars an hour. For a hundred bucks an hour I feel people should be willing to print off the necessary docs to complete the job. I would love to pay more but I just can't right now, I was hoping to be able to use you more often but I do understand if our pricing doesn't fit your needs. So just to clarify, all you can cover for me now is Morgan county? Thanks, -Rob-

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:48pm
Msg #20084

I can't do 125 for a signing unless it has excessive travel. I dislike printing fees greatly, I feel a signing pays $75 for about 45 minutes of work( not including drive time) which works out to $100 dollars an hour. For a hundred bucks an hour I feel people should be willing to print off the necessary docs to complete the job. I would love to pay more but I just can't right now, I was hoping to be able to use you more often but I do understand if our pricing doesn't fit your needs. So just to clarify, all you can cover for me now is Morgan county? Thanks, -Rob-

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:48pm
Msg #20085

I can't do 125 for a signing unless it has excessive travel. I dislike printing fees greatly, I feel a signing pays $75 for about 45 minutes of work( not including drive time) which works out to $100 dollars an hour. For a hundred bucks an hour I feel people should be willing to print off the necessary docs to complete the job. I would love to pay more but I just can't right now, I was hoping to be able to use you more often but I do understand if our pricing doesn't fit your needs. So just to clarify, all you can cover for me now is Morgan county? Thanks, -Rob-

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:48pm
Msg #20086

I can't do 125 for a signing unless it has excessive travel. I dislike printing fees greatly, I feel a signing pays $75 for about 45 minutes of work( not including drive time) which works out to $100 dollars an hour. For a hundred bucks an hour I feel people should be willing to print off the necessary docs to complete the job. I would love to pay more but I just can't right now, I was hoping to be able to use you more often but I do understand if our pricing doesn't fit your needs. So just to clarify, all you can cover for me now is Morgan county? Thanks, -Rob-

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:48pm
Msg #20087

I can't do 125 for a signing unless it has excessive travel. I dislike printing fees greatly, I feel a signing pays $75 for about 45 minutes of work( not including drive time) which works out to $100 dollars an hour. For a hundred bucks an hour I feel people should be willing to print off the necessary docs to complete the job. I would love to pay more but I just can't right now, I was hoping to be able to use you more often but I do understand if our pricing doesn't fit your needs. So just to clarify, all you can cover for me now is Morgan county? Thanks, -Rob-

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:50pm
Msg #20089

I just had this sent to me by a new SS. I was asking for 100.00 to drive 65 miles one way and e-docs. This was his answer.

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 12:51pm
Msg #20090

Oh I'm sorry I was asking for 25.00 for the doc print out plus the 100.00 What do you all think?

Reply by Art_MD on 2/10/05 1:04pm
Msg #20091

If you think like she does, you can say:

she makes $500/hr. $100 for finding a notary and faxing the confirmation. Took call (1 minute), called three notaries (9 minutes), typed/faxed confirmation(2 minutes)

Total time 12 minutes => only 1/5 of an hour so rate is $500/hr.

You can make numbers do wonders !!

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 1:16pm
Msg #20093

I told him it would not be a wise business decision for me to drive that far for only 75.00. I live in a rural area. It will be interesting to see if he can get cheap labor like he thinks.

Reply by Lee/AR on 2/10/05 2:36pm
Msg #20106

Well thought out, Laura!

Were all those posts kellico's hand trembling cause the truth has been posted?

Reply by kellieco on 2/10/05 3:37pm
Msg #20114

Re: Well thought out, Laura!

No, I don't know what happened there. A little heavy on the finger, maybe anger. The first message I sent was an e-mail that was sent to me by a new SS. I was posting it to see what my fellow CSA's thought of such a statement.

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/10/05 10:36pm
Msg #20162

Re: Well thought out, Laura!

"The first message I sent was an e-mail that was sent to me by a new SS. I was posting it to see what my fellow CSA's thought of such a statement. "

Well, since you didn't bother to identify it as such when you posted it, we thought that you were making the statement. Sorry to break it to you but very few of us in here are mind readers, some of us need these things spelled out to us.

Reply by Gammyx3 on 2/10/05 3:15pm
Msg #20110

I was just contacted by TransContinental Title Co. this a.m. to do a signing on 2/15. He told me he found me on Notary Rotary, where I assumed he had already checked my fee schedule prior to calling me. However, he did ask me what was my "additional" charge for e-docs. Again, even though it's posted, I told him I charged an additional $35 for e-docs. We agreed to the siging on Monday and I received, via email, the "Closing Request Form." At the bottom of the form where the Fee is set out, it states $50.00 (which is not my fee posted), and it also says ALL INCLUSIVE (fees includes borrowers copies to be made if necessary, overnight delivery of documents, emailed documents, faxed documents, etc.)

Seems pretty obvious to me that they're trying to "pull one over on me." Do you guys agree? What should I do at this point?

Reply by Paul_IL on 2/10/05 5:26pm
Msg #20126

Call the scheduler back and have them fax a new confirmation showing the correct fee. you should be able to get at least $125 from Transcontinental

Reply by Ted_MI on 2/10/05 10:13pm
Msg #20154

gammyx3,

I am not sure whether a potential client can see your fee schedule on notaryrotary.

As far as trying to 'pull one over on you', who knows - maybe they just screwed up.

As far as what to do at this point, the important thing is to do something, communicate in some fashion. I would email them back and indicate that what was set forth was not your uinderstanding of the agreement and is unacceptable to you and tell them what you want as far as fees go. And see what happens.

Reply by CarolynCO on 2/11/05 8:51am
Msg #20199

Re: Fees should ALWAYS be discussed

*He told me he found me on Notary Rotary, where I assumed he had already checked my fee schedule prior to calling me. However, he did ask me what was my "additional" charge for e-docs. Again, even though it's posted, I told him I charged an additional $35 for e-docs.*

Regardless of where or how they found you, a signing should *never* be accepted *without* discussing fees -- no matter how many times you have them listed in different profiles.

Reply by Bob-Chicago on 2/10/05 4:07pm
Msg #20116

I respetfully disagree

I don't have time to type it again, but if you are interested in my thoughts, you might want to look at my response to Laura's post under the same title on GMN 2-10-05 at 12:04 pm

Reply by Gina B on 2/10/05 10:22pm
Msg #20156

Re: I respetfully disagree

I'm new to the site. What is GMN?

Reply by Ted_MI on 2/10/05 10:25pm
Msg #20158

Re: GMN

Gina,

Gmn stands for gomobilenotary. It is a site that also has a discussion board more or less comparable to this one. I believe a lot of the people who post on nr also post on gmn.

It is: www.gomobilenotary.com

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/10/05 10:32pm
Msg #20160

Re: I respetfully disagree

That list is a joke.

For starters, 16 jobs per month? Is there some reason why you didn't calculate your figures based on doing this full time? 16 is a random figure which pretty much makes all your calculations worthless to begin with. I do over 60 signings a month, which would place all of my expenses at 1/4 of what you've listed.

Second, you're assuming that we would have none of these costs if we weren't doing this job. I already was paying for cell phone access before I started doing this. Same thing for internet access and utilites. I use them for personal use more than I do for business use. Yes, it's nice that I can write off the expenses at the end of the year, but to say that I'm spending $6.50 (!!!!!) on cell phone service for every signing I do is just preposterous. If I were to quit this job tomorrow would I suddenly stop having to pay for electricity? Of course not.

Advertising? We all have different advertising budgets. I can guarantee you that I'm not spending anywhere near $2.60 per signing to advertise my services. And if a notary is only doing 16 signings per month, why on earth are they going to invest so much money in advertising to begin with?

3.5 hours per job? Hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. That's about all I have to say about that.

And BTW, I'm in Los Angeles, one of the most saturated markets in the country. It's also one of the most expensive places in the country to live. If I were making anywhere near minimum wage I would be destitute. Yet I somehow manage to pay my rent, my car payment, my utilities, my credit card bills, my taxes, and still have enough left over to spoil myself a bit here and there. And that's all from my income doing this job. And I even do the occasional $50 signing!

Reply by CaliNotary on 2/10/05 10:42pm
Msg #20165

Re: I respetfully disagree

Do you not have the ability to cut and paste text on your computer?