Posted by Allison/Mi on 2/18/05 1:52pm
Msg #21212
what can we do
Just wanted to know as notaries old and new; what can we do about flooding the market with new notaries and signing agents;thereby weakening our base of assignments.
Why is the NNA pushing out so many signing agents the way they do and then people get in and they don't get the volume of business promised.
It's really sad.
allison
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Reply by Art_MD on 2/18/05 2:01pm
Msg #21214
NNA wants to make money.
1. Yearly dues
2. Added listings - signing agents
3. Supplies, books etc
4. Classes etc
5. Advertising
The more people they get to sign up, the more they make. Thats business. Not making any judgement on ethics of their marketing.
Art
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Reply by ItsMe123 on 2/18/05 6:47pm
Msg #21286
Lending is down. Purchase is where it's at now
I don't think all are slow b/c of "flood" Loan applications are down 70% for refi's. The industry is slowing down. Mom and Pop mortgage companies are closing their doors. The market now is purchase loans and they rarely, very rarely do "out of office" close. It is not pratical to do a mobile closing for a purchase as the sellers, buyers, real agent, and LO are usually always present at close. They all figure why not do it at escrow and escrow wants that as they do not have to pay a closer out of their settlement fee. Escrow officiers are all notaries and they close them. Now with good marketing, you can show a busy TC how they maximize their business performance by having a notary come in. It will free up the escrows time to get more thorugh (big advantage for them at end of the month) rather than having them assiting borrowers signing. You can show how you can collectively free 8 hours a day of time for them when time is the most valueable commidity out there---the end of the month. If you are familiar with escrow, you know their calendar at the end of the month. Alot of loans get bagged into the next month and 100% commission people aren't to happy. You can show them a marketing strategy that will allow a "we are never to busy to close at the end of the month" feature.
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Reply by HisHughness on 2/18/05 11:35pm
Msg #21323
Re: Lending is down. Purchase is where it's at now
Reverse mortgages are going to be a much bigger factor in this business in the next 2-3 years. I did two of them today. Last year it would have been unusual if I had done 2 in a month.
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Reply by Nicole_NCali on 2/18/05 2:03pm
Msg #21215
Allison, I am by no means a oldbie signing agent, but I take the opinion of the oldbies, once these people realize that it takes hard work and time to make the amount of money promised by the NNA, they will leave the industry. The saturation is temporary. Also as a side note, I work with 2 LO and I am in the training to be a LO, a title company that we deal with turned over a couple loans to inexperienced SA's, due to signature misses, the title company had to have the docs redrawn and sent back out by another notary.
I just got this one today from my branch manager so I am not sure which SS did this. But the moral to the story is that experience is cost effective and I don't mind if my hud includes a $150-$200 notary fee if the documents are signed correctly the first time. The end result is if they are not done correctly, I can lose out on way more money than that.
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Reply by Roger/OH on 2/18/05 2:30pm
Msg #21219
NNA is in the unique position of being able to manufacture their own members. They have abandoned their original mission and their sole purpose is to crank out more dues-paying members thru their seminars and marketing, making people believe they can earn "$125 per
hour!" after a one-day class. No one can have the knowledge required to be a notary, let alone a signing agent, in one day, and no one starts out at that kind of rate. But they'll keep cranking them out as long as people keep falling for their line.
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Reply by ERNA_CA on 2/18/05 3:05pm
Msg #21227
THEY CRANKED ME OUT (:
SORRY
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Reply by Older Notary on 2/18/05 4:44pm
Msg #21255
Erna, I'm not passing judgement, but am curious as to what you thought when you read their advertisement. Did you do any market research before you plunked down your money or did you just relie on their advertisement? They are using the same marketing tactics that multi-level marketing companies use. Work from home, make big bucks in your spare time! Don't have any good ideas to conteract this, but if people did "half dilegence" vs. due dilegence their wouldn't be so many people falling for this.
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Reply by ERNA_CA on 2/18/05 7:02pm
Msg #21288
I AGREE, IT MOST CERTAINLY WASNT AS EASY AS THEY CLAIMED IT WOULD BE. BUT I DIDNT THINK IT WOULD BE. EVERYTHING TAKES HARD WORK AND YOUR OWN EFFORT.
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Reply by JanetK/CA on 2/18/05 6:36pm
Msg #21283
Appears to be sad but true, but unfortunately, most have no way of knowing that until it's too late. As most of us know, notarizing is about securing a part of the *integrity* in a transaction, but the NNA no longer seems to walk the talk when it comes to integrity...
I, too, have not renewed my membership and do not buy any supplies from them. Hopefully they'll do more than try to offer renewal specials at reduced fees and will start asking us why they are losing membership!
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Reply by CarolynCO on 2/18/05 4:31pm
Msg #21247
*Why is the NNA pushing out so many signing agents the way they do*
Money! To clarify -- money in their pocket, not the NSA's.
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Reply by CaliNotary on 2/18/05 4:40pm
Msg #21252
All I can do is make sure that I don't put a single penny in the pockets of the NNA. I'm sure their business isn't suffering from that loss, but if more and more of us do this it eventually might.
I know there are a lot of people in here who don't necessarily like the NNA, but still have listings with them because it gets them business. To me, there are plenty of other sources of business and I don't see any point in supporting an organization that is effectively trying to put me out of business in order to line their own pockets.
And I'm doing just fine without any help of any kind from the NNA.
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Reply by CarolynCO on 2/18/05 4:48pm
Msg #21258
I'm not renewing my membership which expires the end of this month.
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Reply by StephanieS/CA on 2/18/05 5:11pm
Msg #21262
My suggestion is to continue to operate at a high level of quality, so you keep your Title companies, Lenders and Escrow Officers happy so they continue to call you when they have a signing in your area.
I do not feel threatened by the saturation of Signing Agents in my area. I continue to do my signings and most months I get more calls than I can handle.
I'm just staying...the course.
Stephanie
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Reply by amazed! on 2/24/05 3:16am
Msg #22129
FINALLY someone who is not a cry baby, pointing the finger of blame at the big bad NNA... remember that when you point a finger at someone else, there are three fingers pointing back at you!!! If someone reads any advertisment and takes it as gospel, how is that the fault of the advertiser? I wonder if people throwing out criticism of the SA seminar offered by the NNA have even attended?
It's basic economics... supply and demand. Stop the blame and focus energy on increasing signing volume, that might explain why you don't get any work!!!
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Reply by PAW_Fl on 2/24/05 8:54am
Msg #22156
amazed! posted: "I wonder if people throwing out criticism of the SA seminar offered by the NNA have even attended?"
Yes I have. I was very, very disappointed and disillusioned that the NNA, supposedly a "national" organization that understands state requirements, offers the false and misleading information that they do. There is absolutely no way a person off the street can become a "qualified" notary and signing agent in just one day. The NNA did not even provide correct information about the laws in Florida that a notary public must follow. However, they hype it up and "train" and turn loose hundreds of new signing agents every month. I'm tired of cleaning up after them.
As for false and misleading advertising, here's an example. These are excerpts from their ad as posted on monster.com:
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START MAKING MORE MONEY NOW!
P/T EFFORT* F/T INCOME
$50…$60…UP TO $125 IN ABOUT AN HOUR!
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I don't know of anyone who can do a typical refinance loan signing in about an hour, TOTAL ACCUMULATED TIME. And, with companies only offering $40 a signing, how can the NNA state $50 ... UP TO $125 ?
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Immediate income can be made in the still-booming real estate and refinance markets!
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Still-booming? The boom ended over a year ago. Doesn't anyone read the trade journals in the real estate and mortgage industry?
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Top lenders, escrow companies, title companies and signing services are actively seeking independent Notary Signing Agents to handle loan document signings.
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Signing services scour the NNA list. Lenders very rarely call on NSAs. Escrow and title companies that don't use signing services, active seek qualified individuals by other means.
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What is a Notary Signing Agent? A Notary specifically trained to handle mortgage signings and notarizations.
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At least they got the definition correct.
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Not a Notary? No problem! Our program gives you the training and knowledge you need to begin this exciting new full- or part-time career.
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This is where they fail, miserably, imo. Their program may offer some of the basics, but certainly does not provide the necessary training to walk out the door and be proficient in performing a loan signing. Heck, they can't even get some of the notarial basics right!
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How do you learn the trade? The National Notary Association will educate you, through a straightforward program taught by loan signing experts.
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Experts? For those who have been to the "training" seminars and have field experience, would you consider the "trainer" to be an "expert"? I certainly don't because the one that taught the class that I attended, had a difficult time with some of the basic questions asked by the attendees. If it weren't for some of the more knowledgeable people attending, the trainees would be given no information or possibly incorrect information.
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How you will make your money:
▪ Agencies contact you with a loan assignment.
▪ You receive the loan package via overnight mail.
▪ Meet with the borrowers to obtain and notarize their signatures. Usually, about an hour of your time.
▪ Return the loan package to the agency.
▪ Collect your fee. $50…$60…up to $125 per signing.
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Boy this sounds so simple. In today's market, I would guess that at least 50% of the docs are now emailed or downloaded, not overnighted. And, "an hour of your time". They seem to be forgetting everything except the "table" work.
I don't remember getting or returning any documents to a signing agency, except those that are an arm to a title company. Docs typically are sent to the closing title company for processing.
Collect your fee? For some, this has become a challenge in itself.
In my PROFESSIONAL opinion, I believe the NNA is doing a disservice to the borrowers, the lenders and title companies, by making this work a "piece of cake". Being a Notary Public is a time-honored public office. The work of a signing agent should not, make that CAN NOT, be taken lightly. It is a profession that requires knowledge, understanding, compassion and attention to details.
</soapbox>
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Reply by BrendaTX on 2/18/05 5:19pm
Msg #21265
Maybe someone who has paid them for training
and has found that they have been oversold should take this up with them.
I joined NNA as an afterthought. Why I got into this business is because I knew I had
(a) Legal Document Experience in Real Estate
(b) Mortgage Lending Experience
(c) Title company experience/public record understanding
(d) A little bit of internet Marketing Know-how
(e) A notary commission with lot's of experience in notarizing documents and keeping a journal (which is cumbersome in Texas)
(f) A clear understanding of notary rules and requirements
(g) All the computer equipment necessary (except the laser, but had $$ to buy that).
And, to be honest, I don't think I would have even considered this job if I did not most of the above referenced items.
It's is my sincere and sad belief that the sales job done on 80% of folks who sincerely need to earn from this job is going to become a true liability and cause them to feel like failures, ignorant and perplexed at why they could not understand how to make a go of it and go great guns at the beginning.
I am not saying it is IMPOSSIBLE. I am saying that the NNA would be my hero if only most of the above items would be stated as helpful in developing an NSA business. Otherwise, if NNA should not state that it's going to propel a notary into a good earning status. Further they should advise notaries that they are wading off into a sharp learning curve upward (and additional expense) that will only level out if they can find someone who is willing to give them a good bit of time and pro bono one on one training when they start loan signing.
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Reply by Melody on 2/18/05 6:59pm
Msg #21287
Well said, Brenda n/m
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Reply by BrendaTX on 2/18/05 9:32pm
Msg #21308
Melody
I just came from the "happy" neighborhood...Name game anyone??
Melly, Melly fo felly
Banana Fana Fo Felly
Fee Fi Fo Felly
SsssMelly!
Ted Ted fo fed
Banana Fana Fo Fed
Fee Fi Fo Fed
Ted!
Hugh Hugh Fo Foo
Banana Fana Fo Foo
Fee Fi Fo Foo
Huuuuugh!
Jon Jon Fo Fon
Banana Fana Fo Fon
Fee Fi Fo Fon
Jon!
CaliNotary, CaliNotary Fo...oops...nevermind.
My appt this evening was in the "happy" neighborhood -- I love that place. It looks like a regular middle class tract development, but EVERY time I go to that neighborhood I laugh -- the borrowers are all "clowns."
And, ready to sign 'em and get back to less pressing activities...always goes really fast. It's not a Texas thing...these folks were transplants from PA. Another couple was from New Jersey - Mr. kept telling me he was part of "The Mob" and would I be willing to be The Notary for "The Family." The others have been locals...but mighty happy locals.
Maybe it's the water...They offered me something to drink. Of course, I turned it down.
(Shouldn't have been so hasty?)
Okay. Back to being serious.
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Reply by HisHughness on 2/18/05 11:08pm
Msg #21318
Re: Melody
Brenda, you didn't happen to eat some jelly beans shaped suspiciously like mushrooms, did you?
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Reply by Ted_MI on 2/19/05 9:05am
Msg #21337
Re: Melody
Hugh,
You must have all sorts of warm and fuzzy feelings (as I do), now that you have been immortalized in one of Brenda's ditties.
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Reply by HisHughness on 2/19/05 9:19am
Msg #21340
Re: Melody
Ted_MI glows:
***You must have all sorts of warm and fuzzy feelings (as I do), now that you have been immortalized in one of Brenda's ditties.***
If by that you mean that I'm running a temperature and my mouth tastes like coyote hair, yes.
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Reply by BrendaTX on 2/19/05 9:43am
Msg #21349
Jelly Beans
Hugh queried: "Brenda, you didn't happen to eat some jelly beans shaped suspiciously like mushrooms, did you?"
No. I only do this kind of thing so you will ask me a question such as this. It's part of a game I made up...my own customized version of Dungeons and Dragons for One. I call it "Notaries and Nonsense." The costumes are fabulous and the possibilities are endless.
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Reply by Jon on 2/19/05 10:28am
Msg #21355
Re: Melody
I think I'm scared!!!! How did I get roped in with two lawyers?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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Reply by BrendaTX on 2/19/05 11:07am
Msg #21358
Re: Melody
Jon: ***I think I'm scared!!!! How did I get roped in with two lawyers?!?!?!?!?!?!?***
Yes, Jon, be afraid. Be very afraid.
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Reply by ERNA_CA on 2/18/05 7:10pm
Msg #21289
Re: Maybe someone who has paid them for training
I WAS LUCKY. MY DAUGHTER WORKS FOR A BIG TITLE COMPANY. SO WITH HER HELP AND JUST A LOT OF READING I SURVIED BEIING AN NNA PRODUCT LOL
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