Posted by Virginia,CA on 7/16/05 11:27pm
Msg #52758

Need help with Power of Attorney

Can I notorize a note from the client that says Power of Attorney as titled, but it is a note that she wrote giving her relative a limited power of Attorney in her country? And if I can notorize the POA, what certificate do I attach? A cerfication of Power of Attorney or an acknowledgement?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/16/05 11:34pm
Msg #52760

I would be directing her to an attorney to draw up a POA.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/16/05 11:34pm
Msg #52761

A properly prepared Power of Attorney instrument would include the proper notarial certificate. (Usually an acknowledgment by the Principal.)

If it is just a "note", which I interpret to mean something someone simply wrote up themselves, they need to either include the appropriate notarial certificate or **tell you** which one to use. You can explain the purpose and design of an acknowledgment and a jurat and let the document custodian (presumably the Principal, if it is a POA) decide which certificate is to be used. For you to decide may be construed as UPL.

Reply by Virginia,CA on 7/16/05 11:37pm
Msg #52762

Under what cercumstance do you use a form called Certification of Power of Attorney?

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/16/05 11:43pm
Msg #52763

I believe that is used when a California notary Public is certifying a **copy** of a Power of Attorney. I suggest you check with a CA notary or your SOS for a more definitive response.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/16/05 11:44pm
Msg #52764

See page 13 (POWERS OF ATTORNEY - CERTIFYING) of the 2005 CA Handbook.

Reply by Virginia, CA on 7/16/05 11:55pm
Msg #52766

Thank you for your information and help. I am still not clear if to use an acknowledgement or a Certification of Power of Attorney. It is just a typed note giving her relative limited power of attorney in her country of origin. I am new, and appreciate your help.

Reply by Jon on 7/17/05 12:06am
Msg #52768

Notaries in Ca do not "certify" powers of attorney. As to whether or not you use an acknowledgement, you are NOT ALLOWED to decide. The person requesting the notarization must tell you which certificate to use.

The term "Certification of Power of Attorney" is not in the Ca handbook, I don't where you got that term. There is no such certificate that the CA notary can use.

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/17/05 12:11am
Msg #52770

The words used in the CA Handbook are, "A suggested format for the certification is shown below." This sentence, on page 13, is in reference to the Power of Attorney. Therefore, one could easily call it a "Certification of Power of Attorney", though the phrase is not explicitly stated in that manner.

Reply by Jon on 7/17/05 11:53pm
Msg #52877

That is in reference to a "Certified Copy of a POA". We can certify copies of the POA, not the POA itself. However, if one does not read the context of a statement, you are correct that they could come to an erroneous conclusion. Silly me expecting people to read, although if people did, we wouldn't need this board .

Reply by PAW_Fl on 7/17/05 12:07am
Msg #52769

A POA can be a dangerous instrument. As Sylvia said, I would suggest that your friend seek expert help in the proper preparation of a Power of Attorney. If you are certifying a COPY of a POA, then you would use the "Certification" as explained in your handbook. Otherwise, YOU MUST BE DIRECTED on what type of notarial certificate (acknowledgment or jurat) to be used on the document. YOU CANNOT DECIDE.

Further, if the document is going out of the county, it may need a apostille as well. The document custodian would have to make that determination, then follow your state guidelines for the apostille process.

Reply by Here's Your Answer on 7/17/05 7:38am
Msg #52774

Virginia -
The certification you speak of IS in the handbook but it's for certifiying a COPY of an original POA. You do not use that - Jon, it's in the handbook.

As usual, people in other states have given you bum scoop so here's the correct answre from a California notary Public:

A POA "note" is fine, handwritten or typed, it does not matter because it's not your document, it's the customers (signer's) and if that's what they want, that's fine.

Jon is correct about ONE thing, you cannot chose for your client an Ack or Jurat BUT you can tell your signer about the difference between the two and let them chose. I would imagine they'd go for an ACK since they are not swearing to anything (or it's not likely) but hey, if they want both to be sure, then notarize two separate originals and charge them $20 per signature rather than $10.

NEVER heed the advice about legal/notarial practices from notaries in states other than your own. Call the Sec of State in YOUR STATE for advice, your governing body. I think this can wait until Monday, correct? If so, consider checking MY ADVICE/Response. And please, read and read and read your handbook which is downloadable in PDF format FOR FREE form the SOS website. Sounds like you need the mandatory education and you may want to consider signing up for a class just to keep yourself up on current law and common practices.

Reply by Virginia,CA on 7/17/05 3:01pm
Msg #52814

I appreciate the help that you offered, I am calling on Monday. I did take the six hour class, this issue however was not clear to me. I am thankful for your help! I appreciate this type of forum for Notaries. Thank you all for all the help given to me on this subject. Sincerely, Virginia

Reply by Jon on 7/18/05 12:03am
Msg #52878

"Copy" is the key word here. I don't know how long you have been reading this board, but I very seldom give an answer on a silver platter for someone unwilling to simply read the handbook. The fact that we can certify COPIES was exactly my point. We DO NOT certify the original POA, which is what Virginia was asking about, only a COPY of the original.

I must also say that your final paragraph is something that I have been saying on this board since I started posting. Everyone, please re-read the final paragraph of the above post....then DO IT!!!