Posted by Charles_CA on 7/29/05 8:59pm
Msg #55806

Ping: AngelinaAZ

Hi AngelinaAZ:

I don't have your e-mail address but I wasnted to respond to a comment you made regarding attorneys only states. I believe that there are some buzz words that are used to make people shake and tremble in their sandals. Attorney only signings. There are States in which attorneys do escrows, title searches and perform many of the actions of title companies already. In other States attorneys have the right to sell real estate, perform title and escrow functions etc. I really don't see how any self respecting attornney would take on the task of signings unless they also took on the tasks o the escrow companies and the title companies. They can already do that and yet they haven't. I have a number of close friends who are atorneys. ne of my close friends stopped doing litigation because he didn't like living in a small town where he had people who were very unhappy with him so he stopped doing lawsuits. He might have gone into this tpe of work but there are other areas much more lucrative so he does estate planning, living wills, probate, and a whole bunch of other things where he gets paid for his time. Remember "time is the lawyers stock in trade...A Lincoln" and they don't like to do hard money jobs they like to get paid for each hour that they do something. My friends charge from $250 an hour and up. Can you imagine how much they would have to charge for a signing. I suspect that on the average you put in 4 to 5 hours a signing. Driving, reviewing the documents, spending time with the clients, printing out the documents. Maybe if you are really fast 3 hours anyway. Not worth it, attorneys would even charge for the drive time and the wear and tear on their cars.

I believe that scare tactics and the threat of withholding jobs is the only thng some of these SSs have to hold over SAs heads. You don't have to worry about withholding jobs, the title companies would go back to dealing with notarys directly once again and that is how I believe it should be.

Best regards,
Charles

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/29/05 11:45pm
Msg #55837

I agree with you Charles. I have asked pointed questions to several SS's and gotten very evasive answers or no answers at all. I have watched others do the same. And if someone hits on something that could actually 'make' them step up to the professional plate... it is always the same... 'attorney state'. Although we cannot discount the possibility .... it is a possibility because some attorney states exist already... I don't believe that it is our biggest threat... and I don't believe that it should be an excuse for SS to run an unprofessional show.

In the end... my hope is that the SS's that value their notaries and good business will be the ones that last. They are the ones that I work with... I am not one of those that thinks that life is only complete if I can work only with TC's. I like my good SS clients just as much as my good TC clients. They treat me very well and I treat them like gold. I think (totally MHO) that the ones I work with would have very little problems getting licensed or certified... should it be a requirement.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/30/05 12:02am
Msg #55838

No scare tactics for me either...

I guess I've been around too long - the threat of attorney closings posted previously just makes no sense to me whatsoever, when you get down to the real nuts and bolts of our service and what we offer, the value of it far outweighs this supposed threat.

Look at this board, alone. How much of it is set aside to "omg, SOX sent a check" or "Sirrani, yuk"?? If those posts were wiped out, my guess is 40% of this board would be gone. This fact alone should make some NSA's at least think about the problem.

For me, I'm just glad that someone else has at least thought about this problem - I was feeling like the lone ranger wondering why I seemed to be the one 'voice' complaining - being new to the board, it made me question myself (and I hate when that happens)

Reply by kynotary on 7/30/05 10:52am
Msg #55873

Re: No scare tactics for me either...

There is another item that notaries should consider when reading this post and that is "HOW MUCH THEY CHARGE FOR THEIR SERVICES". You see the way the industry is keeping the price down on the Notary Signing Agent is by keep on promoting the idea of someone making a lot of money doing this kind of work, and the sound of even $50 to $75 per signing sounds like a dream to some, who think that they can do 5 or 10 a day, when in realty they can possibly do 2 or 3 depending on if they are willing to work 10 - 12 hours a day. What we all need to do is start charging a fair price for our services while thinking about how much it was mentioned that attorney's charge for their services. I believe that the minimum charge should be $100 and then an additional $50 for edocs, an additional $25 for faxbacks and that is if the signing can be done within a 10 mile radius. With all the costs involved in having and running this business, which includes an office, telephone, advertising, supplies, vehicle, vehicle repairs, and gasoline, unless you can get these types of prices, then you are probably making minimum wage. Well you can get that at McDonalds and be guaranteed a certain amount of hours and work every week, so why spend all the time and money to get into this business unless you are expecting to make more than minimum wage. Just a note to try and get everyone on a page that will work for everyone to actually make a reasonable living doing this line of work. Also, I think that the numbers that I used here are low for the what the job requires. What do you think TitleGalCa? Or you SylviaFL?

Reply by Nicole_NCali on 7/30/05 12:06pm
Msg #55893

Re: No scare tactics for me either...work direct for lender

I have been doing signings since September, I have 2 lenders that I work for direct. My check comes directly from title and I get the volume that I can sustain my overhead. I have taken a couple of SS and felt like a complete fool. I appear on the hud at $200, but when I get paid, I receive $100. That is not good business practice.

After reading a couple of business books, the objective of the SA should be to eliminate the middleman, become a bigger stakeholder in the ultimate objective, which is profit. The average SS, markets a clean and efficient signing process to ensure that the loan will fund. Their resources are in printing the documents themselves and farming them out. The other resource they have is a strong notary database. What the SS are failing to realize is that any jerk off can open this type of business.

One lender's signing coordinator point blank told me"we don't use SS, they are too much trouble and we get these calls from notaries of non-payment to slow payment, when we know that the checks were sent at funding" I found this kind of interesting because, the SS whole function is to keep the hassle away from title and the lender.

SS should self regulate, why would the like to see any old scheister open up a store front and take their business. The question is why don't they want to have standards???

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/30/05 12:30pm
Msg #55901

Re: No scare tactics for me either...work direct for lender

Nicole, enjoyed your post. I am really impressed by what Brenda and other notaries have accomplished in Texas with their notary network. They seem to have provided a value based service to title companies and lenders that absolutely fill the need for closers, and doesn't frighten anyone with cutting anybody out of the industry, or unionizing or creating "attorney states". And the beauty of it is that it's loosly (sp) formed, based on mutual benefit to the notaries and the lenders (correct me if I've messed this up Brenda/Hugh). I'd love to see something like it in CA...if I had the bank account to devote myself to it...I'd make a stab at it but it takes the efforts of more than one.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/30/05 12:37pm
Msg #55903

Re: No scare tactics for me either...

I agree ky and think it's really important to value ANY service with the right fee - by scrambling to take $50 jobs, it lessens the importance of the service we provide, the costs and time involved, the training and knowledge we have to have and the benefit to the lender.

Poor analogy, but if I saw a Louis Vitton purse on sale for $50...I probably wouldn't treat it very carefully once I bought it.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/30/05 1:50pm
Msg #55924

A few thoughts on this...

Expensive handbag abuse is just not an acceptable practice around here.

But the key to the statement is loud and clear. DO NOT DE-VALUE THE WORK THAT YOU DO!!!!

I've been reading up on the stuff that I missed and I found it interesting that on one thread an SS gave a newbie some advice to 'take the $50 jobs and get experience' and then later gave someone else advice that 'once you start taking low paying jobs... you'll have a hard time getting more money'. Moral... don't de-value your work!

Here is another question for those of you that do a bit of TC/Lender work. I've been getting quite a few calls recently from Lenders and TC that I haven't worked with before (or different branches of the same co.) and they seem to be quoting prices almost as low as SS's. Seems like they might be trying to cut out the middle man but cut the fee to us as well. I hope that taking the SS work hasn't opened the TC/Lender's eyes as to what we will accept if we have to. Moral... don't de-value your work!

Then I had a situation where I found myself in competition with a local TC for a job that the TC tried to scoop by calling the buyers and saying... come to the office. The Lender insisted that I keep the job. When I posted a question about it... Brenda said that the Lender would definately prefer to pay me less than they would have to pay the TC for the same job. Companies are NOT going to want to pay more if they don't have to!

I must also make one additional point. SA's MUST be more professional. I'm always one to joke around on the board but truly... some of the reason that SS's came into play in the first place is to weed out the 'trash'. Some of the things I've read here just blow me away. The SS that truly do this (have a great database of reliable SA's) are an asset to those they serve...

Fortunately for us... many of the SS have not taken THEIR jobs seriously and turned themselves into clearing houses. Those are the ones that I don't work for and I hope get squeezed out by everybody.

Unfortunately... Cali already peed in my cheerios once about me trying to do away with trip fees for no-sign/no-fund. I think that he is right in the fact the we won't be able to change a whole lot... most SA's don't even read these boards. The idea of a big notary uprising is probably not going to fly... at least in CA where there is an SA on every corner. I think Brenda's idea of a NETWORK is a great one and I intend to talk to her about it. That is something that really WOULD be a possibility in my area.

Reply by Charles_CA on 7/30/05 12:02pm
Msg #55891

Re: No scare tactics for me either...

Hi TitleGal:

I believe that you have an excellent perspective on the SA business from your vantage point. Notaries have been around for centuries. Most people fail to realize that attorneys temselves use notaries and that there is notary work available through the court system. Notaries are essential and I suspect that there will be notaries centuries from now. I read two basic types of traffic on these boards: the newbie and the seasoned notary. The newbies are desperately serching how to make the money they were promised. The seasoned notaries deal with events, problems and ocasional humor. I enjoy reading the posts from the seasoned notaries and wonder in amazement at the naivite of the newbies: are there really that many people who know so little about how business operates. Anyway, have a great weekend enjoy your tennis tournament (I got a chuckle at the mental image of you scalping tickets). I'm going to go fish for salmon this afternoon and when I get to SanDiego later this month a group of us are going to go catch some albacore in Mexico. Have a great time.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/30/05 12:19pm
Msg #55897

Re: No scare tactics for me either...Charles

Wow - my co-worker bought a boat last year and regularly brings me fresh sea bass, halibut, and just yesterday - albacore and he caught it in Mexico! I hear (and I'm right at the source...believe me) that the fish are biting. Jeepers, I know waaaay more about ocean fishing than any self-respecting woman should. I even have to hear his rendition of posts from 'bloodydecks.com' - but in his defense, he tolerates my viewing NotRot at work, so it all works out

Check your email Charles, I hope to provide you a commercial business opportunity. Have a great weekend too!

(viva Agassi)

Reply by kynotary on 7/30/05 1:02pm
Msg #55909

Re: No scare tactics for me either...Charles

For you newbies, read what they are saying here. Tennis Tournments, deep sea fishing, salmon fishing. This is what you can accomplish if you have the courage to set your prices at a fair price to both you and the lenders, title companies, etc.

If you keep under cutting the price and continue charging $50 to $75 for signings, then you will be lucky to buy a new Kia, or maybe you could buy a motorcycle and work out of that to save money on gas.

I only wish all of you the best of luck in your business ventures, but I cut right to the chase and the issue that I keep hearing here is how little money most of you are earning, when you have it within your own power to change all that by just saying no to those low ball offers.

Now I know that in the beginning you may want to take a couple to get started and I did too, but don't let it continue more than for 4 or maybe 5 signings or it will just keep on going and when the good paying companies do call you will be booked up with these low ball companeis and won't be able to accept the better paying companies offers of signings.

Reply by Pete/NY on 7/30/05 1:03pm
Msg #55910

Just my 2 cents...

For about 12 years I used my neighbor who is a real estate closing attorney to handle the mortgage docs for my property purchases and sales in his office. He never charged me (other than the last time since I had moved) because he told me it took all of five minutes to print out the docs.
I would come to his office and one of the ladies would take me into his conference room and say okay, just initial here and sign there. I would never see him. Took all of 15 minutes.

His normal fee for this was $500. He charged me $250 the last time.

So my experience has been that other than fill in the blanks on the docs, most of the docs are the same from package to package and they just selected the appropriate ones out of their computer depending on the loan. He typically would do 12-15 a day. Nice money, huh?

You should see his house!!!!

Reply by newlysmomva on 8/2/05 9:44am
Msg #56371

Re: Just my 2 cents...

I had a lawyers secretary tell me about Notary Closings....her now retired boss would do them...she signed, he charged $100.00 and gave her $10.00 of it. She thought he was so generous. Geez! I don't know how attys are in your area, but here they will do anything for a dime.