Posted by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 10:28am
Msg #51991

Question- 'easily' correctable things under the RTC?

I was under the impression that payoffs, fees... etc. on the HUD were 'correctable' things that could be fixed during the 3 day RTC.

I was also under the impression that the DOT and the Note needed to be dated on the same day (also executed on the same day???). Technically... if a note is OK in amount and interest rate but there wasn't supposed to be a baloon payment at the end and there are pp penalties for everything under the sun for pp.... is it even worth it to sign and 'use the RTC- if it can't be corrected?'

This seems like a situation for re-draw.

Do any of you have 'drop-dead' problems (I'm not talking about ID stuff) that you know in your experience are deal breakers so you just pack it in?

Reply by Tina Marie Grimes on 7/14/05 10:40am
Msg #52004

My past experience is the borrowers don't sign if there any "problems" on the DOT or the Note. In fact, I was supposed to do a signing this past Saturday and the borrower cancelled because the numbers weren't correct. They were doing a HELOC and a refi. The doc's were corrected and I did their signing last night.

Reply by Les/CO on 7/14/05 11:16am
Msg #52046

Your job is to "identify" and "witness" the borrowers signature. Not to correct the doc's. I always try and get them to sign, and call the LO. If not available (usually) have them sign, and work it out in the 3day rtc. You may get a second trip fee.

Reply by Brian/CA on 7/14/05 11:19am
Msg #52048

Exactly. The borrowers and let their LO take care of the problems or they can use their RTC.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 11:50am
Msg #52061

Re: Still disagreeing...

Please read my message below... I posted it in the wrong place.

AND...***Your job is to "identify" and "witness" the borrowers signature. Not to correct the doc's.***

Just last night I had a wife on loan and husband was left off the DOT signature lines, RTC, TIL and other NBS paperwork. If I didn't know my states laws... I'd just have her sign where her name was and go home.... forget the husband. My job as a Notary is to "identify" and "witness". My job as an NSA is to know what I am doing!

Reply by Brian/CA on 7/14/05 11:14am
Msg #52041

It is the borrowers decision to pack it in, you just given them the option that they have the RTC if they want to continue signing and then call their lender to iron out the problems. I have had very few refuse to sign. I'm sure there were plenty that cancelled later, but we never know about them.

You never know what the borrower's financial situation is. They may have a beautiful home, but are mortaged to the max. I see alot of them. Had a couple the last week. They paid about $75,000.00 for their house about 7 years ago, it is worth $400,000 now. They owe $400,000 on it now, when they started the loan process they didn't make the May payment, told the LO they were going to, didn't! They then didn't make the June payment, or the July payment. Now we are sitting there and they need $5000 up front for escrow and they are mad. The LO question her as why she didn't make the May payment. MRS tells the LO that she used the money to pay the supplement taxes on the place. They were taking out a 1st AMR and 2nd with balloon payment. If I hadn't sat thru all the phone calls to the LO I wouldn't of had a clue to their real financial problems. I was the 4th notary out there, they had been thru this before. They were also bad mouthing the other notary. TC and the SS had their number thou. When they sent me they warned me a little, not enough. She even asked me to backdate the docs. They went ahead and signed the documents. She was afraid they would have to start this over and have another credit check. Sounds like there were other purchases or nonpayments she didn't want the lender to know about. If you met them, they seemed like a very nice young couple. I let the SS know she tried to get me to backdate.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 11:39am
Msg #52056

Re: I am to have to disagree with you there.

I am not saying that I correct anything... and I am not saying that 'I' would pack it in... but we do need to know the legal ramifications of the documents. For instance... I have had several packages come through asking for multiple DOTs to be executed along with multiple notes. Multiple DOTs is OK but more than one original note... NEVER! Asking a customer to sign blindly is not smart. I'm not a lawyer and I don't pretend I am... but I am not dumb enough to think that the system is not infallible. Innocent mistakes in paperwork can be BIG problems. We do need to know what we are doing... for everyone's sake!

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 11:41am
Msg #52058

Re: Above reply was for Les...and Grammar police! n/m

Reply by aj/ca on 7/14/05 12:06pm
Msg #52070

Re: Above reply was for Les...and Grammar police! n/m

What about purchases or investment property? If there are serious mistakes in those and it's after hours do you still sign and deal with loan or escrow officer before you send docs back?

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 12:17pm
Msg #52078

Re: Great Question aj/ca ?

I love to get some expert answers to yours and mine! Not that the ones I got weren't experts... but I think everyone needs a little more coffee today!

Reply by Les/CO on 7/14/05 1:57pm
Msg #52141

Re: Above reply was for Les...and Grammar police! n/m

If it's an "investment" or "purchase" There is no RTC

Reply by Brian/CA on 7/14/05 12:38pm
Msg #52093

Re: I am to have to disagree with you there.

Reverse Mortgages is one example of a loan package having two Notes and two DOT in the package. Every reverse mortgage I have done has two of each one for the lender and the other for HUD.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 12:52pm
Msg #52100

Re: I am not talking about Rev Mort.

Sorry I didn't more clearly state what I was referring to. BUT... my question is still the same and unanswered...

Are certain documents (or problems with documents) always deal breakers. What CANNOT be 'fixed' (by the LO of course) within the 3 day RTC.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/14/05 1:08pm
Msg #52109

Keep that bulldog attitude Angelina...you go...

IMHO (and my part-time signing experience) the one deal breaker in my mind is the RTC, and a correct acknowlegdement, that is recordable. Those things have to be right when they get the docs back. That is my part of this job that has to be correct

As to how names show on TD's vs. GD, or your original scenario, I can't answer that. Some lenders are rigid, others seem more flexible - but I never hear back from lender, so if corrections are made after I return the docs, I don't know about it. Further, I can't interpret the lenders docs even if I have an opinion. The best I can do is put a sticky note, pointing it out and I'm pretty cautious about even doing that. Bottom line is...it's up to the LENDER as to their req's, and I just can't interpret that. Not my job.

Best I can do after my 2 cups of caffeine...

Reply by Brian/CA on 7/14/05 1:40pm
Msg #52127

Re: I am not talking about Rev Mort.

There are so many variables that could be deal breakers to a borrower. If a borrower does not want a balloon payment, that is going to be a redraw in order to spread that payment over the life of the loan. It would change the payment amount and that would affect the note, TIL, etc. These again are terms. When you have a question, just look at what document it would affect if it were changed and then maybe that will be a deal breaker as you refer to it.

Reply by Magic Lady CA on 7/14/05 12:56pm
Msg #52103

Re: I am to have to disagree with you there.

Some of you guys are stepping across a line you do not need to. I was a loan officer for over 20 yearsand responsible for the compliance issues for the last 5 years. You, as the notary, are NOT responsible for compliance issues in the loan package. The lender is paying someone else to do that, and the Federal government is checking on that lender to make sure those issues are met.

There are many reasons as to why there will be two notes and two trust deeds. There are also many reasons why both borrowers will be on the DT, TIL, etc. and only one on the note and remaining docs. Those reasons are between the lender and the borrower. You are there to make sure the borrower is who they say they are and that they sign the package, as it has been prepared. That is it.

You should never stop a signing because YOU think the package is incorrect.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 1:21pm
Msg #52117

Re: Oh boy...

So maybe I should sign and complete the extra few acknowledgements that were in the package from the LO as well!

Did you read the question? Because you didn't answer it.

If the package comes through with the husband on the DOT but not on the TIL or the RTC would you prefer, as a LO, that I have him sign it (because I know he has to in my state) or send it back with just the wife. Read the Question!

The LO's I work with really appreciate when we know the rules and can catch things like this.

Reply by Brian/CA on 7/14/05 12:50pm
Msg #52098

Re: I am to have to disagree with you there.

It is not up to us to determine if there is a problem with the terms. We are offering you advise to protect you. You as a notary cannot offer borrowers advise. I know of one Notary that did, she no longer gets calls from a certain signing company. Sure there are many times we would like give advise. Like the one I'm doing today. This is my third time there, I'd love to say to the woman, why don't you get a reverse mortgage. I can't, yet I know it would help her out alot.

If there is a problem with the title, fine call the TC. I had one a couple of weeks ago that they had a Grant Deed changing title, but when they typed the DOT they had added their middle initials. I called title they had us add the initial on the Grant Deed so they would match.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 1:13pm
Msg #52113

This is getting frustrating.

I don't know if it is me or what but you are missing my point. I don't give advice. Where did I say I gave advice?

Scenario 1)... something is wrong with the HUD and the package is HUGE. Nobody is available. The borrower says... I don't think I want to sign. You explain the RTC again and they say... Yeah OK. It takes another 1.5 hours but it all works out.

Scenario 2)... something is wrong with the terms of the note and the package is HUGE. The borrower says... I don't think I want to sign. You explain the RTC again and they say... Yeah OK. It takes another 1.5 hours... can't be funded and I made $35 before expenses and I have to go back.. the borrowers are sick of signing and annoyed.

Scenario 3))... something is wrong with the terms of the note and the package is HUGE. The borrower says... I don't think I want to sign. You know that this is something that must be re-drawn so you smile and say... no problem. I'm sure they will get this corrected for you. The docs are re-drawn and you go sign with the right papers. It was something that could not have been FIXED within the RTC.

This is something I want to know for myself and it has nothing to do with advice.

Reply by BrendaTX on 7/14/05 1:28pm
Msg #52122

Re: This is getting frustrating...Yep, A/az...

I learned to avoid asking hard questions like this on the board. For MY knowledge, I like to know a lot of things so I can call when there is a problem vs. calling when there's not a problem.

I have learned to pick up the phone and call someone who has been doing this longer than I have to find out what my curiosity desires to know.

Send me an email. I want to ask you something.

Reply by Brian/CA on 7/14/05 1:52pm
Msg #52130

Re: This is getting frustrating.

I just advise them, they have the RTC. I let them know it is up to them if they don't want to sign. I have had a few say, "but you won't get paid" I advise them they need to do what they think is best for them. I personally don't care if they sign, I'd rather they were happy with the loan that they get.

I don't know how long you have been doing this. There are many times the borrower isn't aware of what they are getting until they see us. I have had signings where the borrowers were all but yelling at the LO. I have had others that the LO agrees that the loan is not what they had requested and told borrowers not to sign.

Reply by Les/CO on 7/14/05 2:17pm
Msg #52162

Re: I am to have to disagree with you there.

I did not say To "blindly" shove the docs in front of the borrower and say "sine dis stuff!"
I've been a notary, and real estate broker since 1970's. I 've done a LOT of closings. I've worn many hats. The question was about "correcting easly correctable errors on certain docs."
I don't think it's the notary's place to do that. I usually glance over the doc's when I get them (to see if it's all there).And I can mostly answer ANY questions the borrower has. And I agree with you as to multiple "live" notes. That is just common sense. But for the uninitiated, I think it best to let the borrower and LO work it out.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 2:35pm
Msg #52168

Re:Clarification

The question has nothing to do with me (or the borrowers for that matter) correcting anything on the paperwork. I don't correct ANYTHING unless I've been instructed to and I DON'T give advice. This message has been a fiasco from the get-go.

The question is in regards to... are there certain documents in a package... that (if they need correcting for one reason or another by the LO or TC of course) cannot legally be corrected (by anybody) whether it is within the RTC or not. Documents that constitute a re-draw of the entire package.

I'm stopping now... frankly I'm pretty sick of being misunderstood and I can see that I am breaking all my own rules and taking things personal today.

I feel that this has gone from... don't correct... don't give advice... don't step over the line... none of which has any bearing on the original question that I must have asked wrong anyway. (this is not all directed at you by the way)

I can see that this is not the best day for me to post so I'm going to quit while I'm... well... hmmmm.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/14/05 2:40pm
Msg #52171

Re: Re:Clarification

I can see why your frustrated, and feel your pain (I actually get your question, just can't answer it....so....if you get clarification that makes sense to you, can you email me?

Thanks - and relax

Reply by CarolynCO on 7/14/05 2:43pm
Msg #52172

Re: Re:Clarification

Dito. I'd like to know, too.

It's just some days no matter what you say or do, you are misunderstood.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 2:50pm
Msg #52175

Re: Re:Clarification

Thanks... part of my problem is that I woke up early.. tired... had a question... started posting... made a bunch of grammar and spelling errors... drank three cups of coffee... and it's all been downhill from there!

Except of course... a sweet Email from Brenda that brought me back to reality and made me think of much more important things and "how important is this question in the scheme of things after all"!!!

I'll email if I get clarification but you might be waiting a long time!

Reply by JanetK_CA on 7/14/05 6:35pm
Msg #52244

Re: Re:Clarification

I'm just reading this thread now and for what it's worth, I thought it was a very good question. I've been in that situation a number of times - including just this week! Unfortunately, the answer probably has a lot of "depends on..." to it - and would likely be even more misunderstood than your question!! Feel free to email me, too. (BTW, I grew up somewhere near where you are - same area code...)

Reply by Les/CO on 7/14/05 3:01pm
Msg #52178

Re: Re:Clarification

Perhaps I (almost) understand your question now.
In "MOST" cases, if there is a change on the note (terms) {also DOT} ( this is NOT the name or address etc.) It will require the docs to be redone. If it's something like the LO officer reducing his fee on the HUD, no problem. It also depends on the "pay off" and what kind on "cushion" the TC is using. There are a myriad of things that can cause a deal to go south, and there are totally unexplainable "items" usally wanted by the "investor" (the guys the LO's company sells to) that can break a deal (if not signed correctly, of left out) If you've got 10 years, and a lot of patience, there are people out there (and on this board) that can explain it ALL to you.
Best you familiarize yourself with the docs, advise the borrower as little as possible, show up, be neat, be nice, notorize the docs, and be gone.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/14/05 8:18pm
Msg #52274

Re: To Les/CO

Thanks for trying to stick with me all the way through... what a nightmare.

I understand and agree with what you are saying... and since I do not have 10 years... I'll just take each situation as it comes... like I've been doing. BTW... I think I best conveyed my question when I gave the 3 scenarios. ???

***Best you familiarize yourself with the docs, advise the borrower as little as possible, show up, be neat, be nice, notorize the docs, and be gone.*** Very good advice!

Reply by Les/CO on 7/15/05 9:47am
Msg #52439

Re: To Les/CO

Scenario 1 : The HUD CAN be changed. During the 3 day RTC.

Scenario 2 : If the note terms change it takes a redraw. But if you make the trip, and they sign, you should get paid (full price) regardless...you did your job! * The note is seldom notarized, (or the RTC) the TC can send/fax it direct to the borrower.

Scenario 3: Same as above. It IS possible to redraw the docs and resend then during the 3 day RTC.

You should not make any 'judgement' calls on behalf of the borrower or the lender. Do your job the first time, if the "package" or part of it needs to be resigned, (and they call you) charge for another trip. Remember the 'lender' hires the TC and they hire you. If you start to or they THINK you interfere with their client (the borrower) they may not use the TC again, and therefor the TC won't use you. (Unknowledgable notaries are a BIG problem for TC's. They spend a lot of time, and big bucks getting lenders to use them, just to have some ill-advised notary, blow their clients out the door. Talk to a title sales rep sometime)

Most "deal breakers" lie with the LO. (that was not a pun!) Especially toward the EOM. It seems they throw anything/everything against the wall, and hope it sticks. Watch for the ones that call for a, say 20 grand increase in the note, a 5 dollar a month reduction in payment, and no cash out to the borrower. With those I start by saying "Did you speak with your Loan Officer today?"

Reply by Tina Marie Grimes on 7/15/05 9:15am
Msg #52436

Re: Re:Clarification

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your question is "what doc's can't be corrected within the RTC period?" I know from past experiences, that if the DOT or note aren't correct they have to be re-drawn, the whole package is redone, signing is rescheduled, new RTC dates. As I stated in my earlier post, this just happened to me. Personally, when my husband and I refinanced the Est Closing Statement was incorrect and the Borrower's Instructions were wrong. I called our LO immediately and we were faxed the correct docs the next day. We had no problems on the DOT or the Note.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 7/15/05 11:45am
Msg #52461

Yes Tina that was the Question

And yes... you answered it! You are probably thinking... hey I answered her right away... before any of these yahoos started yiking about her changing things and crossing lines... what's wrong with this girl anyway?

The answer is.... NOT ENOUGH SLEEP... TOO MUCH COFFEE... TOO MANY AMERIQUEST LOANS IN ONE WEEK... and maybe just plain old mental incapacity.

Thanks for your quick and easy answers that I completely missed!

Reply by TinaG_Cal on 7/15/05 2:29pm
Msg #52499

Re: Yes Tina that was the Question

Glad I could help!!!