Posted by andyinsocal on 7/10/05 1:12pm
Msg #50853

backdating

I would like to get some of the experienced notaries opinion on this. I am new, and already have been asked twice to backdate the docs, once by a loan officer, and once the signers asked me on behalf of the loan officer. I refuse to do anything illegal, i am so paranoid of being busted, but after speaking to one of the loan officers, they tell me this is common practice, and that if i dont do it, i may not get the jobs. They were telling me to be helpful, not as a threat. Any thoughts on this subject? Maybe Im just not cut out for this.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 7/10/05 1:20pm
Msg #50854

You know when my kids were growing up and they wanted to do something I refused to allow them to do, it was always "But, Mom, all the other Mom's let their kids do it" - then you check with the other Mom's to find out that they are getting the same story from their kids.

Same here, it is NOT common practice to backdate. They were not telling you to be helpful. They needed you to backdate to save their loan.
Just say "NO", tell them it is not common practice among ethical notaries and you are not jeopardizing your commission to save their loan.

Reply by andy on 7/10/05 1:21pm
Msg #50855

Thanks, I did!!

Reply by Markita-MI on 7/10/05 1:40pm
Msg #50857

Sylvia's right. Ethical notaries do not jeopardize their commission for anyone--loan officers, brokers, title companies, or borrowers. I agree 100% with Sylvia. It is not common practice. The loan officer was trying to close the loan by any means necessary; even if that meant nudging you to do something illegal. You have to be firm and flat out say "NO". Most will try you but it is up to you to stand your ground. If you are good at what you do and do it with excellence, your reputation alone will make sure that the business keeps a comin'. Don't worry. This is not something that will stop business flow. At least not with companies, you want to do business with. Afterall, NOT ALL BUSINESS IS GOOD BUSINESS.

As self employed persons, we definitely want "the good business". If it means you have to compromise your integrity and jeopardize your commission to do business with these companies, let them go. Their business is not good business. None of us need that form of income any way.

Stay strong and don't waiver. All you have is your good reputation and good name in this business. Don't jeopardize it for anyone or any company.

MHO

Markita-MI

Reply by desireeroman on 7/10/05 1:54pm
Msg #50858

I have been asked on many occasions to backdate, and I always refuse. The next typical response has always been: 'okay thanks, we'll find someone else to do it.' And guess what? They do. There are many notaries out there who will backdate for $50. My business (which is incorporated) is not worth losing over $50.00. Penalty for that type of illegal action is revocation of your commission - that means END OF YOUR JOB, PERIOD. It's not like you can go work for someone else!! As far as losing business because of it, NOT TRUE. Those SAME companies will call me back and give me other work. And some have asked me more than once to backdate, then catch themselves and say, 'oh yeah, you don't do that right?' In a business where there are many unscrupulous and unethical characters, I remain steadfast to the oath I took to serve my position as a notary with conviction and morals. NO amount of money is worth compromising my principals, or worth getting me to perform illegal functions of my job responsibilities. If more notaries were 1/2 as honorable, it wouldn't even be something that someone would ask us to do. So the document can't be backdated- so what's the worse that has to happen? The docs have to be redrawan. Better to redraw docs than to forfeit my source of income (not to mention, damage my credibitily and trustworthiness). Kudos to you for not succumbing to their weak pressure tactics.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 7/11/05 8:27pm
Msg #51084

excellant advice for anyone...

but I'm curious about this - to date no one's asked me to do this. I'm guessing it's to the lenders advantage to save the loan (eg. my emergency is now your problem). Still, they hold all the cards in this deal - why do they drop this on the signing agent??? Irritates me.

Reply by Laura on 7/10/05 3:23pm
Msg #50869

Andy, some companies will try to get "newbie" notaries to do many different things (i.e. backdating, etc.) - - they even try us oldies too. Some of the "oldies" do backdate -- I'm in an area that seems to have a lot of this happening. I've been asked to backdate -- I chose not to work for that company any more.
Believe me, if something comes down the trail regarding the loan and dates.... you will find that nobody will be backing you up. Your on your own. Do it right, and do it legal.
You won't have any sleepless nights.

Reply by Lori/CA on 7/10/05 3:24pm
Msg #50870

If a loan officer is asking you to do this and you refuse, he is probably not going to use you again. So it really doesn't matter what you say. I asked one when he asked me to do this if he realiezed he was committing a misdemeanor CA code 8225. They sure can back track.
I've been doing this 5 years, don't worry about not getting work. There are a lot of nice LO, TC and SS that never ask this of you.

Reply by Roger/OH on 7/10/05 6:06pm
Msg #50874

Yeah - ask the LO to provide you the backdating request in writing and see what happens!
You can also tell him/her you'll look up the DOT at the recorder's office and turn in the notary that did do it!

Reply by Notary4U on 7/10/05 4:05pm
Msg #50871

Re: backdating...you won't get jobs???..


yeah right! You will get jobs and that's because there will always be work out there. AND, I have a friend who works at one of the signings agencies and they have "tested" notaries to see what type of person they are. Serious...and I'm told by a title co that the state agencies have been pretending to be companies to catch people doing it. After so many fraudulant things happening with loan officers and over charging fees, falsifying information, etc. They are looking at some things pretty hard.

I personally know a family not to far from me that has a son who married a woman who has been embezeling money for 3 yrs from the bank she worked at to the tune of 1.5 million. And a friends son was trying to buy a house with his girlfriend and they made all their income look like it came from just her sons job. The whole thing went belly up and the loan officer lost their job and people are sueing for performance and such.

They are cracking down.

I always play with the people who ask me to do it....first I say "no, that's illegal" and their response is always "really?", and I say "but you know, since I could lose my source of income for doing that for you...I would be willing to do it if you could get an approval for my fee to do it." And they ALWAYS ask.."what's THAT fee?" And I tell them, we'll since I get this questions every once in awhile I sat down and figured that I would have to take into account losing my income X 7 years (what I might get as jail time) = $490,000. Then their is all the expenses for the attorney...roughly $40,000 (since I will appeal as much as possible), then tack on the cost it will be for the counselor that I will have to send my kids to because they won't have a parent in their life and god only knows what will go wrong if I can't supervise their life as they grow...=$15,000...equaling a total of $545,000. So if they get that approved I'd think about it after I check if I can make the arrangements as to where my kids will live....how's that sound?"

"well, thanks anyway."...click


lolololol

Reply by Bonnie/Florida on 7/10/05 10:53pm
Msg #50902

I was just asked the other day by a signing company to backdate my witnessing and notarizing since the loan was supposed to close 3 days ago. I said I would not do it. The signing company said they would pay me more money if i would do it and I asked if they will also put it in writing that the lender agreed to this, that it was legal and that I would not lose my state license and it was ok with the State of Florida and I could continue my business without being penalized or going to jail. He said of course he could do none of that and I again said then I won't do it and I appreciated his business, but he would need to find another notary. He then came up even higher with his money offer and I said that there was no money in the world that could protect my license and my livelihood and again said no, yu will need to find another notary or if you want me to date the docs on the date I witnessed and notarized them, I woud be happy to do the job, but would not backdate anything. I am assuming he moved onto someone else. I got off the phone thinking I may never hear from them again and I really did not care or if I was being "tested" I just passed my test!

Reply by Dmartz_IN on 7/10/05 11:08pm
Msg #50903

Isn't funny when they want you to backdate they can always swing more money

Reply by Bonnie/Florida on 7/10/05 11:17pm
Msg #50905

Sure, when they want to cover for their mistake, they somehow come up with MORE money! Must have that "special"mistake fund! LOL

Reply by Anon on 7/11/05 2:43am
Msg #50912

Loan Officers are sales people. Their pay (commission) is dependent on the loan closing. They do not care if you lose your commission, pay a fine, go to jail; they'll just move on to the next gullable person. What is your integrity worth? What is your value system? Do you maintain a code of ethics?

What if the LO told you the only way to get rich is to rob a bank? Other than that, you might not ever have a lot of money! Would you consider robbing the bank? Would you go on the internet and ask others if they think you should rob a bank?

Never, ever do anything illegal regardless of who asks you. If you are considering it, then you should turn in your commission!!! Furthermore, you should report the LO to the Feds for asking you. What he is asking you to do might fall under Conspiracy to Commit Fraud, which I am certain carries a penalty much worse than revocation of your commission. Report the LO to the Feds. Watch him lose his license, get arrested, have a trial, pay the fines, and go to jail, etc. Then maybe other LOs and TCs will understand the seriousness of what they are asking of the Notaries!

Reply by Bonnie/Florida on 7/11/05 8:31am
Msg #50919

I have learned over the years the loan officer will tell me almost anything just to close the loan. Although I have met some that were actually quite helpful. But I know enough to say no and agree backdating is illegal and unethical no matter how much the signing company (which is who was asking me to do it in this case) was offering. But I would be willing to bet someone out there did accept the job from the signing company. I was tempted to report the person to their supervisor, but this happened while I was on the phone on the way to another signing and by the time I got home, I had forgotten about it until I read the posts about the same subject.

Reply by Reggie on 7/11/05 1:08pm
Msg #50978

Don't EVER,EVER,EVER!!!!!!!!! do it you can lose your commission if you do and don't be talked into it by a lo they are out for the loan not your career!

Reginald
Kansas

Reply by Melody on 7/11/05 5:36pm
Msg #51045

If you backdate & borrowers later sue, you could lose .....

your shirt.

You E&O insurance will not cover illegal acts.

The companies who want us to this don't care. It is not their license, career, and personal assets on the line.

Roger's response was good.

When I get the request, I ask them to fax it to me with all parties names in writing, including TC and Lender's info. I tell them I will have to get specific permission from my SoS.

Shuts 'em right up.