Posted by kathy/ca on 9/21/06 8:38pm
Msg #147624

Do you all print the entire loan pkg for the BRW copy? I do,

but wonder if it is necessary. I had 4 e-doc signing's today and each package was at least 150 pages X2 and it made me wonder if all that printing is mandatory. What do you guy's think?

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 9/21/06 8:41pm
Msg #147626

Re: Hey Kathy, good question I don't feel the borrower's

package is the entire package copied when we get O/N docs.

Reply by MelissaCT on 9/21/06 9:47pm
Msg #147646

Re: o/n - can't count how many times

I've had to make an extra copy or more of the TIL & RTC so the package would comply with Reg. Z due to o/n pkg being "short". A full set for bwr is a must. God forbid you have to pull bwr's copy of something because it didn't print correctly or bwr signed incorrectly, etc. and you don't have a copy in the borrower's set to use because you skimped out on printing borrower's copy. I'm with Brenda -- print full set.

The only exception is when there are multiple copies of note or deed or title docs -- borrower gets one of each only.

Reply by Paul_IL on 9/22/06 1:03am
Msg #147671

I give the borrowers a full copy on CD in PDF

I started this about 6months ago. Started asking the borrower when I confirm the closing if they preferred their copy on CD or if they want a hundred plus pages on legal. They have all said CD without hesitation. I print them a HUD, RTC's and payment letter or temp coupon to go along with the CD.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 9/22/06 1:42am
Msg #147675

I really like Paul's answer

I think this is the way we will be presenting "The Borrowers Copy" in the very near future.

I also agree with the others (Brenda etc) that just telling the borrowers that we have printed " a copy of everything they are going to sign" has made my signings go so much smother and quicker than they did 5 years when companies only sent a few of the docs in the borrower's copies.

The borrower(s) would look at a 100+ package to sign and have 35 docs in their package. Yup! this made the borrower secure!

Worst yet I worked for a couple of title companies that didn't include a borrowers copy at all and told the borrower they would FedEx them in the next day or two. Those signings were the signings from H... I dumped them immediately.

On the other hand borrowers are much more sophisticated about loan docs than they were 5 years ago and you don't get the 1st time refinance after a 30 year fixed that we did 5 years ago when the borrowers were truly suspicious/Leary/etc of doing any refinancing!!

This is the busiest I have ever been in 5 years of doing loan signings. I did 4 signings today and I have 3 scheduled for tomorrow. I know I am lucky that I am in the Inland Empire and not all parts of the country are this busy.

It would be nice to return to the time when all the loan documents arrived at my doorstep, but the business changes all the time and we have to change with it.

To repeat myself I do think Paul is absolutely on target with the CD download.

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 9/22/06 5:41am
Msg #147684

Re: I give the borrowers a full copy on CD in PDF - Paul

How do the costs compare? How do you deliver those docs? In a file folder, envelope, etc? I've often wondered about delivering the doc copy, in .pdf, via email as well. I may have to take a straw poll of my TCs and see how they feel about either option. It would certainly cut down on my paper and toner expenses!

Reply by Paul_IL on 9/22/06 2:26pm
Msg #147825

Re: I give the borrowers a full copy on CD in PDF - Paul

I buy CD's at Sams for about 15 for 100 and use the paper CD envelopes which run about 6 cents so you are looking at $.21 and it only takes a couple of minutes to burn and label the cd with a Sharpie. with their name and the date.

Why ask your SS or TC's they will just want to lower the print fee. Instructions say deliver a copy. What form the copy takes is between you and the borrower

Reply by David Kral on 9/22/06 3:35pm
Msg #147848

Borrower on CD

I hope you leave a printed copy of the cancellation agreement because if the borrower does not have a computer and cannot read your CD, it could be questionable whether they received a valid copy. Courts have ruled fonts must be a minimize size on printed documents etc so even printed copies with very fine print have been ruled invalid. The CD copy might not meet the letter of the law. Unfortunately, the law may not be defined on this point until some unhappy borrower challenges it in court.

Regulators have been pretty tough on Reg Z as well. A copy compressed on a computer file is far from the written disclosure of the TIL on paper right in front of the borrower in black in white with a good font size.

I know you are trying to save a buck and borrowers might even like the compact disc to store the information, but regulators and courts often see matters differently.

Reply by Paul_IL on 9/22/06 8:22pm
Msg #147920

FOCUS David!!! Read what I wrote!

David,
Did you fail to notice I mentioned RTC as having hardcopies or did you just like to hear yourself go on. I check the PDF to make sure and I als leave them aq card and tell them if they cannot open the file I can e-mail it to them.

The Law does not define a copy so PDF meets that definition.

Reply by David Kral on 9/22/06 3:53pm
Msg #147853

Part two.


You state "Why ask your SS or TC's they will just want to lower the print fee. Instructions say deliver a copy. What form the ocpy takes is between you and the borrower."

I disagree. You do not want to ask the TC/SS because you think it might result in a lower fee. You are right it might. You also state deliver a copy. The lawyers at the TC may argue that there is a LARGE difference between a paper copy and CD. (similar to some one that wants pay you by cash or by check. Both are money, but there is a big difference between the two. They are not identical.) What form it takes is between you and the borrower. No it is between you, the TC/SS and perhaps the borrower. If the TC/SS says that a CD is okay or perhaps they say it is okay with them if okay with the borrower. But again, I suspect that the lawyers at the title companies may outright object to the Right of Recission and TIL being delivered via compact disc as a legal compliance issue. Furthermore, they may want the entire package delivered via hard copy form, loan, mortgage riders, prepayment addendum. The purpose of disclosure is not hide anything but to disclose it. Having it on a compact disc that a borrower might argue they lacked computer skills and could not access the document
moves in the opposite spirit of disclosure. While I believe that is not your intent at the notary, the borrower's attorney when he is suing the bank, title company and you is likely going to claim you obfusacted the process.

Another case in point, the securities industry has had paper forms for years. They had to get the permission of the regulators to deliver your statements to you via electronic form. Ever notice you have to sign a long agreement agreeing to accept electronic delivery for all of those forms.

I have a feeling if you asked HUD and the banking regulators about what you are doing, they would object unless you had the borrower sign a statement agreeing to accept the electronic deliver in the compact cd form.

Caveat Emptor.

I hope your E&O insurance covers you for this!

As they say, grown men in jail are comforted by other grown men. Enjoy!

Reply by Charm_AL on 9/22/06 7:45am
Msg #147704

Re: I give the borrowers a full copy on CD in PDF

I love this idea!!! How long does it take to burn a cd? this would be tremendous for days like today when I have three e-doc sets coming in.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/21/06 8:41pm
Msg #147627

I vote affirmative. It is necessary. All 150 pages of it.

Reply by Thalia Ray on 9/21/06 8:46pm
Msg #147630

I totally agree with you Brenda, I tell the borrower that they have a copy of every page of their loan. I like it that way.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/21/06 10:57pm
Msg #147655

Re: Do you all print the entire loan pkg for the BRW copy? I

I disagree when it comes to CW. I stopped printing their 25 page book of instructions for the TC copy as well as the brw copy. Fact is the TC will not draw a HUD w/o the closing instructions, so they already have their copy. The brw does not have to sign the closing instructions, does not understand them and they just take up space in the brws file cabinet. I have not printed out CW instructions since February and no one has complained.

That's 50 less pages to print and I paid $51.99 for a case of legal paper tonight at Office Depot. I only paid that price because I had a $20 off purchase of $100+. A case of paper, an HP cartridge, two units of medium binder clips and a bag of neon file bands for $124 including $20 off.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/21/06 8:45pm
Msg #147629

Re: Absolutely..borrower is entitled..

To copies of everything he signed - that's why you set your e-doc fee accordingly

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 9/21/06 9:02pm
Msg #147633

I copy the borrower's package after I sort it...

and I don't include non-necessary items, such as two copies of the back three pages of the W-9, 5 copies of the HUD (1 only for Borrower package) and I don't even print the 29 pages of Countrywide instructions, so they don't get a copy of that either.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/21/06 9:24pm
Msg #147639

Re: I copy the borrower's package after I sort it...

If I recall correctly the borrowers have to sign the Countrywide instructions - therefore they should get a copy..

And they may need the other pages of the W-9 for the definitions -

It's not up to us to decide what copies the borrower should have and what they don't need - they should get a copy of the entire package.

Reply by kathy/ca on 9/21/06 9:29pm
Msg #147642

Linda, yepper, I think you are right, they SHOULD get the

entire copy. Well, that settles it, gonna keep on printing. Thanks!

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/21/06 10:59pm
Msg #147657

Re: I copy the borrower's package after I sort it...

Borrowers don't sign CW closing instructions, the EO does.

Reply by kathy/ca on 9/21/06 9:27pm
Msg #147641

Melissa, I also wondered about the Closing Instruction's

necessary to print for the BRW copy. But, doesnt it take too much time to sort through and print only the doc's you think are necessary? I would think the time spent wouldn't be worth the saving's in toner and paper. Am I wrong?

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 9/21/06 9:37pm
Msg #147644

Re: Melissa, I also wondered about the Closing Instruction's

I have a commercial grade copier and I sort my packages as they come out of my printer then immediately put the docs into the copier once printing is complete. Most of the Countrywide instructions I receive don't have any signatures required from the borrower. Some other CW packages do include the payment letter as part of the closing instructions...on those I DO print the instructions and make a copy for the borrower. My sorting gets done after the package is printed, so I don't have to hunt through a document set looking for what pages to print or not to print.

As for the definitions pages of the W-9, I only copy ONE set of the definitions as I stated above. I've had packages with as many as 6 W-9s in them for a husband and wife as borrowers. I don't copy 6 sets of definitions; that is just a waste of paper.

Reply by Brad_CA on 9/21/06 10:56pm
Msg #147654

Re: Melissa, I also wondered about the Closing Instruction's

Print everything and give to borrower unless told otherwise.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/21/06 10:58pm
Msg #147656

Re: I copy the borrower's package after I sort it...Misty

we are on the same page. I posted before I read your response.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/21/06 11:01pm
Msg #147658

opps, meant Melissa. Can you tell I'm beat? n/m

Reply by KBLedgard_CA on 9/21/06 11:04pm
Msg #147659

Re: opps, meant Melissa. Can you tell I'm beat?

I was wondering which response was from Misty. :-) How's it going Becca?

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/21/06 11:23pm
Msg #147663

Re: Kyle

I'll not finish my work tonight, too tired. Thank goodness we have tomorrow.

Reply by KBLedgard_CA on 9/21/06 11:25pm
Msg #147665

Re: Becca

Good...from what I've seen, you've done an excellent job getting your network up and running. Great job! Have a nice evening.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/21/06 11:44pm
Msg #147669

Re: Kyle, such kind words. Thank you!

But, it's not MY network, it's the Florida NSA Network and it would not be what it is without all of the hard working, dedicated members. I am just amazed at how quickly it started working. I am astonished with what the members have done in less than two weeks. I'm so happy and so proud of the members that came on board and were not afraid to "think outside the box." Life is all about results and we can boast results.

I'm just thrilled. Tired, but thrilled.

Thank you, Florida NSA Network members; you are the best of the best!

Reply by BetsyMI on 9/22/06 9:12am
Msg #147729

Another thought

In the doc packages that include 20 pages of "counseling agencies", I don't make a copy of those 20 pages for the Title Company, but I do for the borrower.

Reply by Bonnie_CO on 9/22/06 10:31am
Msg #147754

Yes. I've never thought about not printing everything...

for the BO.