Posted by MasterCloser on 9/26/06 9:54pm
Msg #148677

Ethics and keeping my mouth shut

I did a refi for a borrower yesterday that had an 11.79% APR. It was a small challenge for me to keep my mouth shut. I really wanted to tell him he was getting HOSED but of course I couldn't do that. Why kill the deal? They were really nice people, two small children. There was even a prepay penalty on it.

If stupidity was a crime we would not have enough prison cells.

Comments welcome.

Reply by celeste/ca on 9/26/06 9:58pm
Msg #148678

Did they realize that was their interest rate? How bad was their credit to get such a horrific loan? Amazing that noone knows how to shop around!

Reply by BarbaraL_CA on 9/26/06 10:05pm
Msg #148684

Yes, I've kept my mouth shut a few times too - it's sad to see people commit to such financial obligations, but then it's none of our business! Who knows what their needs are? Could be a young couple in debit up to their ears trying to save what they have - or an elderly couple with serious illness to cope with, or who knows what else? As I said - it's none of my business other than to point out the Interest Rate, Term, Pre-Payment Terms, Payment Amount, when payment is due....and say "if you have any questions contact your loan officer".

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/26/06 10:10pm
Msg #148687

Message Deleted

This message has been deleted by a forum moderator.

Reason: Abusive

Reply by MasterCloser on 9/26/06 10:14pm
Msg #148688

Message Deleted

This message has been deleted by a forum moderator.

Reason: Abusive

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/26/06 10:28pm
Msg #148695

Thank you for proving my point, StupidCloser.

>>>If I ever want yer smart ass opinion I will be sure to smack it out of you!<<<

You might want to watch the things you say if you want to stick around here. Threats of violence will not be tolerated, I'm quite sure of that.

Reply by MasterCloser on 9/26/06 10:15pm
Msg #148689

and i wasnt judging them just thought it was a stupid thing to do! '
just like your inflammatory comment

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/26/06 10:20pm
Msg #148692

"it was a stupid thing to do!" is in not judgemental, right! n/m

Reply by Stamper_WI on 9/26/06 10:28pm
Msg #148694

Re: "it was a stupid thing to do!" is in not judgemental, right!

A lot of factors go into what % rate they get. And reasons for getting the loan vary. Sometimes life hands you lemons and you have to deal with it. I had a 13% one not that long ago. Yeah its a shame that some folks who would really rather not take out the loan get high interest rates HAVE to borrow against their assets to get them through the rough patches.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/26/06 10:52pm
Msg #148699

That is the point, you are absolutely right. It is

extremely judgemental to call someone "stupid" when they may be a victim of circumstances. There is another consideration and that is while they may have a high income loan they may be leveraged out all the way and saw an opportunity to make 2 to 3 percent on that money, in ewhich case it's not "stupid" at all. As a notary one never knows the circumstances of the borrower nor their motivation. Remember Donald Trump damn near lost his derriere on a casino Atlantic City, he pulled his fat out of the fire and with some very expensive loans!

Reply by mtcwgrl on 9/27/06 12:38am
Msg #148703

Re: That is the point, you are absolutely right. It is

The APR is NOT the interest rate.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/27/06 1:15am
Msg #148706

You are right Montana Cowgirl but you have to keep in mind

that the APR is really the more important figure in my opinion. Two important figures that are on the TIL are the APR and the total cost of the loan. Both of those figures should be of utmost concern to anyone getting a loan because that is how much they are paying to rent the money. The book interest is really a marketing ploy, that is why the APR was required to be disclosed so that people know what the real interest rate was.

Reply by MichiganAl on 9/27/06 1:58am
Msg #148711

I think it depends on the situation

If I'm getting a loan and only plan on being in my home short term, then the APR may mean very little to me. A balloon payment at the end of the loan affects the APR, but what do I care about a payment due 30 years from now? What happens to the loan when it becomes adjustable affects the APR, but if I've got a three year fixed and plan on being out by the end of the three years, it can adjust to 20% for all I care. Or if I've got bad credit and only plan on keeping the loan short term until I get it squared away, again, I don't care about the things that affect the APR that I'm never going to see. I care about interest rate and monthly payment. Point is, and I'm sure you agree, every situation should be looked at individually.

Reply by MichiganAl on 9/27/06 1:46am
Msg #148709

Zen Master Closer, please answer the following questions:

What is the borrowers credit score??

What is their debt ratio?

Have they had any bankruptcies?

What is their mortgage payment history like?

What are the terms of the loan that is being paid off?


If your answer to any of these questions is, "gee, I dunno," then you really have no idea whether or not the borrower was getting hosed and how stupid they are. I've seen plenty of loans with that APR that were an absolute bargain for the borrower based on their situation and future plans. I've seen them cry with joy because no one else would help them stabilize a bad situation.

Since you're welcoming comments, let me also point out that if your going to name yourself "master closer" (and by the way, we're not closers), you'd better be absolutely sure you know your stuff inside and out. In my opinion, you're drawing a big fat bull's-eye on the hinder part of your carcass.

Reply by PJM/MI on 9/27/06 6:04am
Msg #148722

Re: Zen Master Closer, please answer the following questions

Wowee, MasterCloser.. you got BLASTED!
I too, have seen the interest rates & monthly payments be a real bad deal for people and had to keep my mouth shut. (The URLA shows liabilities/assets...easy to see the hosing going on). BUT... it isn't our job to tell 'em they have made a bad mistake. It's sad, but true.
As much we'd like to give our advice or opinion, we can't.
My favorite one... bo had an interest rate of 1.5% (really) and asked me if that was a good deal! Yea.. I answered THAT one. Couldn't resist.

Reply by Beth/MD on 9/27/06 6:55am
Msg #148727

Re: Zen Master Closer, please answer the following questions

Just because YOU think a rate is bad doesn't mean it's what the borrower thinks. You don't know the situation --- and you shouldn't --- you're supposed to be neutral! Also, it's not your job to decide who's getting a deal and who's getting "hosed." And by the way, Al's right, we're not closers.

Reply by GF_CA on 9/27/06 8:34am
Msg #148742

Pamela.....I had a borrower who ask me...

do you think that the interest rate will go down even more then 1%?

Reply by Charm_AL on 9/27/06 9:30am
Msg #148756

My comment is that you have no clue of his financial situation and no right to determine them stupid.
First you say you wanted to tell him he was getting hosed, then next you say why kill the deal? No ethics here from what I read. Also, we are not closers and your comment just killed the deal on the 'master' handle. If I were you, I'd put a LOT of weight on anything Becca has to say. Your comment back to her was in the very least rude.

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/27/06 9:30am
Msg #148758

parturiunt montes, nascetur ridiculus mus

Gee-wiz guys lighten up a bit...

I've got no dog in this fight, I don't even know where the Master Closer lives...

But I think it's just a matter of semantics... here's how I read his post...

"I did a signing the other day on a loan that's almost 12%... WOW!! Scared the hell out of me, hadn't ever seen an interest rate so high. I had to remind myself not to say anything about it."

Just water cooler talk, that's all.

Reply by BetsyMI on 9/27/06 9:35am
Msg #148762

Re: parturiunt montes, nascetur ridiculus mus

I agree with Gary. No reason to say "shame on you" and "how dare you...." to anyone for stating an opinion. And calling him MasterArse first was throwing the first stone.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/27/06 11:32am
Msg #148800

Re: parturiunt montes, nascetur ridiculus mus Betsy

Calling a brw "stupid" and being condescending was the first stone, IMO. An SA with a haughty attitude like his does not belong in the services industry. Who the he77 does he think he is to say the brw is stupid for accepting a high interest rate?

I take great pleasure in knowing that when MC is searched on google or yahoo, etc., this callous post will show up under his profile and TCs, SSs and individuals alike will be able to see his lack of character.

Reply by hcampersFL on 9/27/06 2:26pm
Msg #148857

I wish you could keep your hands from typing as easily as you keep your mouth shut. Why would you tell someone that you are going to "smack" them? Unbelievable.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/27/06 4:28pm
Msg #148899

Good grief

None of us really know what is happening in the lives of our borrowers.
I wouldn't DREAM of commenting on "bad terms".
Bad terms may be the only way of getting the brw out of a bad situation, we just don't know the whole story.
You sure can tell the newbies from the experienced NSA's on the forums.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/27/06 6:52pm
Msg #148932

Once upon a time my parents were financing loans to people who bought lots or homes from them via owner finance. We also had a prepayment penalty in the loans that would yield about a $500-1000.00 payment back to Mom/Dad if the loan was paid off before its time.

Back then, my parents were lending money at 11-14% on the note rate. Most of the people could not have gotten a better loan at a bank at the time with good/bad/great credit because of prime running high.

My parents were doing these people a favor.

Most of their people were low credit scored people who would have gotten 15++ at the bank.

As interest rates went down, we suggested they get another loan and pay off when they wanted lower terms. They could not get them...so, we'd allow them to refi with a lower term but they had to pay the pre-payment penalty.

It was not stupid people, or bad money lenders...it was the way it was and my parents were in a position to offer loans on property.

11.79% is not exactly horrible if you need to refinance a debt.