Posted by Teresa/FL on 9/5/06 2:49pm
Msg #143600

FL ID. Question - Married vs. Maiden name

I'm closing a purchase tomorrow. The loan documents have the borrower's married name, but she has not yet changed her ID, so the ID still shows her maiden name. Her husband is a loan officer for the company that processed the loan and does not understand why her married name can't be shown on title. She is planning on legally changing her name, but has not done so yet.

I have submitted this question to the FL DOS/Notary Section, via both voice mail and email, but have not received a response yet.

Florida Notaries - what would you do?

TIA

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 9/5/06 3:01pm
Msg #143604

I don't know how you want to handle this in Florida but....

When this situation arisies in New Jersey, I will only accept the name on the Identification. In my opinion, if the name has not been changed on the ID than the name has not been changed. I have been in numerous debates with borrowers, lenders, ss, etc regarding this issue. Personally, I will not accept a marriage certificate to "bridge" the maiden name to the married name.

Luckily, to cover my behind, NJ law says the notary public must be "personally satisfied" as to the signors identity, so there are no rules on accepting or declining the marraige certificate. I am just not personally satisfied unless the name on the docs match that of the ID.

Reply by LynnNC on 9/5/06 3:50pm
Msg #143626

I would be "personally satisfied" to bridge the name on the ID to the documents using a marriage certificate, and I would have her sign: "name on documents" FNA "name on ID", and would notarize the latter.

Reply by taxpro on 9/5/06 4:06pm
Msg #143632

What's "FNA"?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/5/06 4:14pm
Msg #143635

I believe she mean FKA Formerly Known As.

Reply by LynnNC on 9/5/06 10:47pm
Msg #143727

Indeed I did!

Reply by taxpro on 9/5/06 3:11pm
Msg #143610

I've found that the only thing the LO is concerned about is getting the loan closed. Many times they can't understand why we won't "bend the rules" for them, and then try to get buddy buddy and act like we're old friends. "Awwww, come onnnn, you know it's that same person!" They should know that you can't notarize a name that doesn't match the ID. But, another way is to have her sign her maiden name, Jane Maiden Name, as her ID says, and have her sign an AKA statement, (provided by the LENDER) saying she is Jane Maiden Name, and is one and the same person as Jane Married Name. I'm not sure if that's acceptable in all states for recording, but I've seen it done here in KS.

Reply by Merry_CA on 9/5/06 3:23pm
Msg #143616

Yes! Taxpro... my thoughts exactly. The LO should iron these things out when taking the initial 1003. A good LO knows what it takes to process a smooth closing and makes sure that this kind of issue doesn't jeopardise the loan.

Reply by MelissaCT on 9/5/06 9:16pm
Msg #143700

That's ok for the lender, but an AKA statement doesn't work for establishing ID by a notary. A notary is limited to the ID presented in determining ID of the person signing (at least in CT).

I've used marriage license or vehicle registration (providing vehicle was registered in maiden name, but DL says married name -- reason I accept this is that SSN and DL number are listed on CT (yellow copy) registration forms, as well as signature).

Reply by BobRogers_FL on 9/5/06 3:20pm
Msg #143613

I would ask my client what they want me to do, knowing that in Florida it is perfectly acceptable to have a newly married female sign her name as: Jane Doe who is now known as (NKA) JANE SMITH and who produced identification in the name of Jane Doe.

Reply by Thalia Ray on 9/5/06 3:23pm
Msg #143615

In the state of Fl you have only 10 working days from the time of a name change or address change to change those on your DL.
Now IMO if you just got married you should do all the legal name changes and stuff before I get to the door with a mortgage.
If the 2 names do not match I am not at fault .. the person on the ID is.
If I ASSUME something and it is false that is my fault.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 3:29pm
Msg #143619

Thailia Ray, you are wrong. Please read the manual. n/m

Reply by Thalia Ray on 9/7/06 11:03am
Msg #144135

Re: Thailia Ray, you are wrong. Please read the manual.

LOL Becca dear you did not as usual read the whole post.
I am not a lawyer and I do not give legal advice but as you should know the law if you have a DL in Florida you should also know that ignorance of the law is not a defense.
You have 10 days for any name change or address change according to the laws of Florida.
IMO and it is my opinion if the ID that a borrower shows me does not reflect a name change then they tell me they just got married.... I stop the signing and ask that they call their LO and have the signing rescheduled for a later date.
I like the position that I have and I will not do anything that will jeopardize that position.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 3:28pm
Msg #143618

Your answer is on page 61 of the FL manual n/m

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 9/5/06 3:41pm
Msg #143625

Is she wrong about the length of time to change a name on ID

or wrong about something else? Enlighten us, please. Thanks!

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 4:23pm
Msg #143641

Re: Is she wrong about the length of time to change a name o

Marlene,

We are Notaries not Florida Department of Motor Vehicle Officers, Police Officers or Lawyers, etc. Who are we to say...well, ma'am, I'm sorry, but you should know you only have 10 days to get your name & address changed.....why is this any of the Notaries business???? Is Thalia Ray going around citing FL law on such matters? If this is the case she is dead wrong and needs to study up on what her duties are as a Florida Notary.

The Florida Manual clearly states how to handle the situation, as Bob and I have both pointed out.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/5/06 4:30pm
Msg #143644

Re: Is she wrong about the length of time to change a name on ID

Marlene
She is wrong about not being able to do the signing if the name on the docs doesn't match the ID - as for maiden name vs married name. Fl notary laws cover the situation when someone has recently married and has not changed their name on ID.

Florida law requires us to keep our drivers license address current within ten days after moving.
There is nothing about changing names within ten days though.

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 9/5/06 4:48pm
Msg #143648

FL law doesn't say anything about a woman being "required"

to change her name when she marries. I recently got married and DID change my name, but it was not a requirement. As a matter of fact, the DMV offered me several options on how to list my "new" name. I chose the option that allowed me to "bridge" from my maiden name to my former married name to my current married name. Since I took title to my house with my now-husband in my maiden name, I wanted to insure that any future notary could identify me with no problems.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 6:17pm
Msg #143659

Marlene, my point was...

that Thalia Ray's answer was wrong because the 10 day issue is a non-issue and is not relevant to our duties as Notaries.

Reply by Lynn Lowry on 9/5/06 3:40pm
Msg #143624

Tell her to go change her ID before the closing. n/m

Reply by Sherri_mo on 9/5/06 4:19pm
Msg #143637

Re: Tell her to go change her ID before the closing.

Just had something similar happen last week. Borrower got married on Friday evening and signed docs on Saturday morning. Lender and Title both agreed she should sign as shown on ID with AKA as her new married name and new spouse had to sign spousal docs. As a notary I was certainly comfortable with her original ID and if she wanted or needed to add an AKA, she certainly had that right. Also showed both names on the name affadavits.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/5/06 4:19pm
Msg #143636

Teresa,
You say the documents have her married name, but her married name isn't on title?
I am uncertain as to what you are really asking here?
If you are asking about the notary section then that is covered in theGovernor's manual.

Give me a call if you like, my info is in my profile

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/5/06 5:42pm
Msg #143652

Clarification Re: FL ID. Question - Married vs. Maiden name

All of the documents (including the Warranty Deed to be signed by the seller) show her new married name, but she had no ID in her married name due to the very recent marraige.

She is the borrower and her husband is the NOS. The husband is a loan officer for the broker who processed the loan application. He does not see why she can't sign with her new married name even though her ID has not been updated yet. His belief is that the Marriage License should be adequate to prove her identity. The broker/lender is in agreement with him.

My issue is what is proper for notarial purposes. If the documents were in her maiden name and she had ID in her married name, there would be no problem, as the Governor's reference manual provides a solution. The problem is that she has no ID in her married name (the name on the documents) only in her maiden name.

I think the only solution is to have her obtain ID in her married name or to have the documents redrawn in her maiden name to match her ID.

If anyone has any other ideas, please respond.

Reply by FlaMac on 9/5/06 7:38pm
Msg #143672

She can sign but it might get rejected by the lender or ...

the title insurance company. Which means you might have a tough time getting paid for it cause it probably won't fund.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 8:09pm
Msg #143682

BS!

I've done hundreds of loans with ID issues as outlined above and have not had one that did not fund because I choose to do things by the book. You must work with some real sorry outfits, FlaMac.

Reply by FlaMac on 9/5/06 8:38pm
Msg #143690

I work directly for lenders and tc's . That scenario would..

not fly with a company like Guardian, for example. They are very particular. It's possible you work for signing services and think your loans funded when actually they did not. You are fortunate that you were paid your fee under those circumstances. If you do alot of Countywide, one example, then the procedural rules are less stringent. They range from one end of the spectrum to the other in what they require. When you work for as many lenders as I do; you learn to read the instructions and then follow them to the letter.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 9:04pm
Msg #143697

Get real, MissInformation

CW, Chase, IndyMac, HFC, WaMu, WF and even SunTrust have NEVER had a problem with a CORRECT Notarial Certificate. Get real, MissInformation.

"When you work for as many lenders as I do; you learn to read the instructions and then follow them to the letter." FlaMac, did it ever occur to you that the lenders instructions are for the closing agent and not you? Please take what ever hat you wear during the day off for your SA work at night AND realize, it's not all about you...you are just the lowly notary getting the docs signed.

Please quit this MissInformation you spew. Get a grip.

Reply by FlaMac on 9/5/06 9:57pm
Msg #143711

You have low self esteem if you think your a lowly notary..

Do your job right for goodness sake and quit making the rest of us look lazy.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 10:55pm
Msg #143730

That's You're NOT your, you lowly legal ASSistant. n/m

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/5/06 8:24pm
Msg #143686

Re: She can sign but it might get rejected by the lender or ...

The lender (who is also the broker) gave the OK for her to sign in her married name. The title company is OK with it also. My main concern is making sure the documents and signed correctly and filling out the notarial certificate properly to reflect the ID presented. I don't want the county recorder to reject the mortgage because of an improper notarial certificate.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 8:30pm
Msg #143689

Re: She can sign but it might get rejected by the lender or

Do as discussed and it will be fine. I've never had a mortgage rejected by recording, title or lender for and a/k/a, n/k/a or f/k/a. Just be prepared to do a lot of handwriting.

Reply by FlaMac on 9/5/06 8:52pm
Msg #143694

Heres the wording for the ack. The lender is the bank...

and it sounds like the broker is trying to convince you to go thru with it. There is nothing in Florida law preventing you from doing so. Read below for the notorial law. The title company, if out of state, may be totally unaware of the recording requirements for the county in question. You can take a chance and do it...I would let them know that you require you're full fee if anything is rejected. Many of these slip thru at the tc and county level. Even tho, technically, they are not entirely correct.

Notarial Law Reference Manual:
What should I do if a person produces identification with a name different from the name being signed?

This problem may occur in different situations. In some situations, individuals may have
simply neglected to update their identification cards after a name change. You should direct
them to the local Division of Motor Vehicles office to make the necessary changes.

In some instances, individuals may need to sign a document with their former name after making the necessary updates to their identification cards. A classic situation arises when a woman changes her name after marriage and has to sign a document, such as a warranty deed, in her former name. You may notarize her signature if she signs both names, but you may want to indicate that fact in your notarial certificate.

For an acknowledgment, you could state, “The foregoing instrument was acknowledged before me this _____ day of ________, 20__, by Mary Smith, who represented to me that she was formerly known as Mary Jones, and who provided a Florida driver license, No. 123 45 678 890 in the name of Mary Smith as identification.” You may also want to include information such as the date of birth, expiration date, or physical description.

You may always provide additional information in your certificate, especially if it helps to clarify the circumstances. You may also want to include information about supporting documentation concerning the name change or additional identification cards, if available, in your journal.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 9:10pm
Msg #143698

See, Even FlaMac can READ. What a revelation. n/m

Reply by FlaMac on 9/5/06 9:52pm
Msg #143707

You are quite paranoid, my dear. My spy's tell me you...

think you see me everywhere. How sad for you...Possibly you need to get a regular job..one that will get you away from your addiction. This site. We simply put up with you because we're sympathic to the mentally disturbed. You're spiteful and your ways are why this site has become a chat room instead of a professional site.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 10:00pm
Msg #143715

Get over your ever-lov'in self...do you realy think I care? n/m

Reply by FlaMac on 9/5/06 10:02pm
Msg #143716

You've made it clear you don't care..thats the point. DUH n/m

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/5/06 9:53pm
Msg #143709

Re: She can sign but it might get rejected by the lender or ...

Teredsa
If her ID is in her maiden name, she needs to sign Jane Maiden Name NKA Jane Married Name.
If you e-mail me (my info is in my profile) I will send you the certificates you will need.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/5/06 9:50pm
Msg #143705

Thanks for all your input...

Here's how I decided to resolve the issue:

Name under signature line is Mrs. Married Name.
I will have her sign "Ms. Maiden Name n/k/a Mrs. Married Name"

The notarial certificate will read:

...acknowledged before me this 6th day of September, 2006 by
Ms. Maiden Name, who represented to me that she is now know as Mrs. Married Name, and who provided a Florida driver license #M000 00 000 00 0 in the name of Ms. Maiden Name as identification.

I believe this satisfies the Florida statutes regarding identification.

Reply by FlaMac on 9/5/06 9:59pm
Msg #143713

That's perfect. Might want to make a copy so you have it..

next time because you will see this type of scenario again.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/5/06 11:52pm
Msg #143748

N/K/A, F/K/A

I have notarized many signatures where the lender and title company had pre-printed the N/K/A or F/K/A wording under the signature lines. My dilemma here is that the lender seems to expect me to notarize this woman's signature in her married name ONLY when her ID is in her maiden name because she was recently married.

This scenario was different from my previous experiences.

Again, thanks for the comments and input from everyone.

Reply by FlaMac on 9/6/06 7:38am
Msg #143816

Just do it...it'll fly. It may not be exactly correct but...

as I said...they hardly ever catch them when they show up to be recorded. If they sent back every single one that was not exactly correct...nothing would ever get processed.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/6/06 10:15am
Msg #143845

Re: Just do it...it'll fly. It may not be exactly correct but...

I don't jusIt blindly do what is requested. I want to make sure I am following the law. It matters to me that I do the job right the first time.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/5/06 10:04pm
Msg #143717

Glad I could help, Teresa. Call anytime you have questions.

We do have a few great Notaries in Florida. The problem is weeding out the uninformed from those in the know. I can always help.

Reply by BobRogers_FL on 9/6/06 9:09am
Msg #143829

Re: Thanks for all your input...

Good for you...you got it right after weighing through all the BS provided.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/6/06 10:19am
Msg #143846

FINAL UPDATE

I am not closing this loan. The lender and title company want her to sign only her married name, which I cannot notarize since she has no acceptable ID in that name. They have another notary who will do as they ask.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/6/06 10:32am
Msg #143847

Re: FINAL UPDATE

They probably called FlaMac.

Good guys 0 - Bad guys 1

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/6/06 10:55am
Msg #143850

Teresa, PS

I wouldn't worry much about losing your client. You did what you had to do. I do work for an out of town TC in four counties, they like me, the way I work and enjoy working with me. The EO has called me a few times and asked me to backdate. The EO knows my answer is always the same, yet she wants me to close the loan and will always call me first. When I say no can do, she just sends her in house closer on a 100+ mile one way trip to do the deed. I am still called for every closing in the four counties that I cover for them.

FWIW

Reply by Dee_Fla on 9/6/06 1:32pm
Msg #143867

Re: Teresa, PS --Becca

Becca...whether they call you for a lot of work or not, the fac that they continue to ask you to do something illegal and if you are saying "no" and they hire someone else to do this, don't you think you should be reporting this company and their illegal actions????

You seem to be sooooo perfect in every single thing that anyone says or does around here but yet you continue to work for a company that performs illegal actions...& YOu are a paralegal?

....pleading my 5th !!!

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/6/06 2:46pm
Msg #143874

--Dee

If you had any experience in this business at all, you would know that this kind of thing happens everyday in every Title Co, in every State. We are Notaries not law enforcement you MoMo.

>>>don't you think you should be reporting this company and their illegal actions???? <<<

Go ahead and play "Loan Ranger" if you want to, but it is a waste of time because the SOS and the State Atty. are not going to crack down on backdating TCs, Brokers or Notaries any time soon. Mind your business, do your job and don't backdate. That's it. AND, don't try to shove your morality crap down my throat. Jesus lady, start worrying about yourself and your own business and stay the he77 out of mine.

Reply by Charm_AL on 9/6/06 4:48pm
Msg #143903

Re: --Dee - hey Becca...

where the hell have I missed that we are Lawyers, judges and jurors now??? WTF?
We notarize signatures people....if you want to practice law, get a freaking law degree and pass the bar....GEEZX!