Posted by cyndi_ca on 9/30/06 9:03am
Msg #149472

Florida help please.

Did a Florida purchase and need to know if on a LPOA do you attach and ack. The wording doesn't necessarily suggest Ack. or Jurat. The wording is as follows:

personally came_______ and I have made known to them the contents of this agreement and having personally satisfied myself on the basis of sufficient evidence that he/she/they are the persons signing above executed the same as his/her/their voluntary act and deed.

TIA for your help.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/30/06 9:13am
Msg #149476

Why not just use this form? As long as the venue and date appear just insert their names and sign and stamp.

If you're more comfortable attaching a loose certificate, the wording "executed the same as his/her/their voluntary act and deed" to me suggests an acknowledgement.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/30/06 9:14am
Msg #149478

Cyndi
We cannot determine whether the doc needs an ack or a jurat. The wording you have is not consistent with Florida notary laws. Check with the company and ask if they want an ack or a jurat and attach the required California notary certificate.

Reply by cyndi_ca on 9/30/06 9:17am
Msg #149481

Thanks Sylvia

I wasn't really quite sure what to do with this one. Was also wondering if this was consistent with FL. and thank you for pointing that out. Thank you Ma'am.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/30/06 9:24am
Msg #149487

Re: Florida help please...question

She can't use the wording on the doc? I'm confused..

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/30/06 9:32am
Msg #149492

Notaries must comply with their state's

requirements for executing a notarial certificate.
For example, their are 9 elements required on a FL notarial certificate.

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/30/06 9:36am
Msg #149494

Re: Notaries must comply with their state's..you're right

Keyed in on FL requirements and not WHERE it was being signed..

Second cup of coffee time - my apologies..

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/30/06 12:21pm
Msg #149533

You weren't far off...

CA law requires us to use specific wording for in state notarizations. That's a good thing... used to say "substantially equal" now it's "exact wording" saves some arguing.

BUT

We can use out of state wording for out of state transactions... with certain limitations... no certifying capacities.

So CA and FL law come into play on the question.

By the way, the nine elements were helpful to me...9 things you don't have to think about in CA with exact wording required. I knew nothing about a name under the signature.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/1/06 1:41am
Msg #149596

Re: You weren't far off...

Another limitation: CA law doesn't say we can use ANY out-of-state wording; it says we can use out-of-state wording "as required" by the specific state where the docs will be recorded. If we're not sure what that state's requirements are, then the safest bet is to go with your own state's requirements.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/30/06 9:37am
Msg #149495

Borrowing from one of Sylvia's emails-the 9 FL elements

in the education effort:
(thank you Sylvia, hope you don't mind)

Make sure the notary certificates are filled out correctly - all 9 elements must be present.
The certificate must contain:

1) The venue (location of the notarization)
2) Type of notarial act (acknowledgement or oath/affirmation)
3) The signer personally appeared before the notary ("before me"
4) The name(s) of the signer(s)
5) The actual date of the notarization
6) The form of identification used to identify the signer/s
7) The signature of the notary
8) The name of the notary printed/typed/stamped below the signature.
9) The notary seal.

The most common error is not printing the name below the signature, assuming because it is on the stamp one does not have to print it as well. But, it must be printed or stamped below the signature as well as it being on the notary seal.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/30/06 2:34pm
Msg #149547

Re: Borrowing from one of Sylvia's emails-the 9 FL elements

No Problem Misty

I should point out that the 9 elements are from the Fl Governor's manual. In the statutes for #4, the statutes actually state:
The name of the person whose signature is being notarized. It is presumed, absent such specific notation by the notary public, that notarization is to all signatures.


So, you can forgo putting the name of the signer(s) on the certificate. But it is better to put them on there, so there can be no error on whose signature you are notarizing.

Without the names on there what is to stop someone adding a signature later?

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/30/06 2:17pm
Msg #149544

Re: Florida help please...question

Linda
Even if it was being signed in Florida, that wording doesn't comply with Fl notary law.
There is no indication of whether it is an acknowledgment or a jurat. A certificate must identify whether they are acknowledging they signed the document or whether they are swearing to the contents.
In Florida, I would ascertain from the company whether they required an acknowledgment or a jurat. And if I couldn't get a hold of anyone at the company I would ask the signer which one they would like me to use.
Also" basis of sufficient evidence" is not enough in Florida. The certificate must contain the form of ID presented.

This is a case where I would be attaching a loose certificate.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/30/06 9:14am
Msg #149479

We can't choose which one legally

Call the hiring party and ask which they want.
If you choose, it is UPL

Reply by cyndi_ca on 9/30/06 9:19am
Msg #149483

I know we can't choose. Thanks so much Mist.

Just weird wording I hadn't seen before.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/30/06 9:25am
Msg #149489

Re: I know we can't choose. Thanks so much Mist.

It is weird wording, Cyndi, and didn't know you knew, LOL
There are so many who don't know, ya know?
Thanks goodness its Saturday....long week for me!
How about you?

Reply by cyndi_ca on 9/30/06 9:31am
Msg #149491

LOL Mistarella

Very strange indeed. Whatever, see all kinds of stuff these days. Too many who don't know fer sure! Yahoo Saturday! Very long week for me and next week is filling up already. Giddie up! Enjoy your weekend. Just so ya know, was told by hiring party to notarize as is. Hhmm.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/30/06 9:34am
Msg #149493

Re: LOL Mistarella

Hmmm is right.
That tells me the person you spoke with probably doesn't know what is required, either!
This industry is filled with incompetants, CYA Cyndi!

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/30/06 11:04am
Msg #149520

Hmmm... yeah this is probably UPL

so it's NOT ADVICE, I'M NOT A LAWYER... this is just water cooler chat...

The word "execute" strongly suggests acknowledgement.

But don't take my word for it.

Also note the correct use of the word advice above... advice is a noun, advise is a verb. (Not to anyone in this thread in particular but that's a common misuse and annoys me to no end.)

Reply by cassiewi on 9/30/06 11:13am
Msg #149525

Re: I know we can't choose. Thanks so much Mist.

I had weird wording the other day as well.

"In Witness whereof I hereunto set my hand and official seal"

I called Title and asked if this was to be an acknowledgement, they said yes, I said well that wording suggests I am only witnessing, if it is an acknowledgement than I need to change the wording. They said we've done many in WI before and never had anyone question this. She was rude. I called the company that hired me, they called title (spoke to someone else)and she said it was fine to change the wording. I ended up attaching a loose acknowledgement.

Funny thing is, this same phrase was on another form, but it had jurat wording underneath it.