Posted by PJM/MI on 9/6/06 6:28am
Msg #143798

Going over the docs.. on the phone

I've been reading the posts on here about how wrong it is to go over the docs with the borrowers on the phone. I usually don't do it, but there have been a couple of loans where the borrower INSISTS I tell them what the terms are before I ever get there because their wonderful LO hasn't told them a darn thing.
When this situation arises, I call the title co or ss and let 'em know that the lo dropped the ball and the bo wants the info before they sign. I've never had a company tell me NOT to tell the bo.
We have to remember that it is the bo's $..not ours..it isn't our mortgage.. it's theirs and they have every right to know what's going on.
I'm not that desperate to get just a trip fee.
JMHO

Reply by 626-333-1411 WANDA *4 NOTARY 2 U*********** on 9/6/06 6:45am
Msg #143803

Message Deleted

This message has been deleted by a forum moderator.

Reason: Advertising

Reply by FlaMac on 9/6/06 7:05am
Msg #143806

SS's hide in here..those are the ones that tell you not to..

go over the docs with the BO. Also, there are mortgage brokers that are also signing agents. Which IMO is unethical and a conflict of interest. Some lenders are becoming even more strict and requiring the SA to sign a statement stating that they are NOT a broker or agent and have no affiliation with the lender. You'll find that you get very prejudcial advice from them..and it always leans towards the broker...and not the BO.

Going over the docs with the BO is a great idea. I have always done it. The title company appreciates it because, if you are experienced, you will catch many of thier mistakes which can be quickly corrected and docs resent to you the same day. Now that the market is getting tight; many companys are eliminating paying a trip fee if the loan does not fund. Why would you take on that burden when a 5 minute conversation with the BO would prevent it? You are a SA not a "closer". A closer is the guy you deal with at the car lot...

It's all in what you are comfortable with. Talking to the BO on the phone builds trust and gives you credibility. Once they've confirmed the terms are correct you'll find that when you arrive at thier home..they feel like they know you already and things go much smoother.

Or if you prefer...print everything....race over thier...sit them down and find out the interest rate is wrong and that there's is a PPP that was not disclosed by the broker or LO...have Mr. Bo get really ticked off.... Then send in your trip fee bill and sit and wait to get paid...

Reply by hcampersFL on 9/6/06 7:19am
Msg #143811

Re: SS's hide in here..those are the ones that tell you not to..

I am not a SS or a Broker or a LO.
You are a nimrod.
If I have BR that want the terms ahead of time then I communitcate with title and if it is okay with them I will forward the docs to the BR. let them look them over and call there LO if they have any questions.

I don't work for trip fees.

Reply by pix on 9/6/06 8:49am
Msg #143824

Re: SS's hide in here..you bet your booty!

You are absolutely right! The ONLY acceptable time to go over the rate/ term on the phone with a borrower is in the event a trip has already been made and at the BORROWERS REQUEST! Just because you feel it’s a waste of time for YOU is not an excuse to be lazy! Need you forget the LO has put ALOT of time into these deals, it is unfair to kill a deal over the phone AND not to mention this is YOUR CHOOSEN PROFESSION. I am so tired of notaries whining and complaining about the day to day tribulations in this field, if every closing were perfect we would all be making 10x what we do! ITS part of the job, loans are not going to close, lo’s are going to try and slide bad deals, paperwork IS going to be wrong etc…

ALSO...SS are NOT HIDING in here, personally i like to see who is posting and stay on top of current issues. I also like to see what notaries are truly committed to their jobs, or complete nimrods. In fact, a few weeks ago we sent out a recruiting email only to find a notary post on this board for the answers to the questions i asked!! Think i called? Not!

BTW, Happy Campers.. I love your style will definitely call you!

Reply by hcampersFL on 9/6/06 8:55am
Msg #143825

Thanks Pix, Call me if I can help you in any way! n/m

Reply by FlaMac on 9/6/06 9:05am
Msg #143828

Said like a true SS. It's unfair to kill a deal? How can...

it get killed if the borrower says " Yep, that's exactly what I was promised. Print the docs and I look forward to seeing you a 6 o'clock." Your banter is further proof that you want the signing agent to do your dirty work... "close" your loan for you aka "talking the borrower into anything".

Reply by pix on 9/6/06 9:13am
Msg #143830

Re: Said like a true SS. YUP

You obviously DONT GET IT , it has nothing to do with dirty work.. its all about commitment to your chosen line of work and PROFESSIONALISM. How is it dirty work to ask that you do your job, nothing was ever said about selling the deal?? There may be times when there is so much behind the scenes you dont know about, i.e. past bankruptcy, divorce, leins, repo's that could affect the borrowers credit.. many times the LO will qualify the borrower for a specific rate only to find this information out after it goes thru underwriting and comes back with a higher rate or costs...Thanks for posting your profile so sit back and wait for those for perfect loans to come accross your desk, bc certainly a ss or title company would never use your services again after learning how you conduct yourself

Reply by John_NorCal on 9/6/06 9:36am
Msg #143834

Your message falls on deaf ears Pix n/m

Reply by hcampersFL on 9/6/06 9:38am
Msg #143835

Re: Your message falls on deaf ears Pix

John she can't hear because of all the other voices in her head.

Reply by John_NorCal on 9/6/06 9:55am
Msg #143839

Re: Your message falls on deaf ears Pix

and the voices say, "I yam, I yam, the best.....heheheheh!"

Reply by FlaMac on 9/6/06 9:41am
Msg #143836

TC's & Lenders love me cause I'm the best. We don't need..

a signing service to dictate to us the standards of our profession, thank you very much, deary. Further, a good broker/lo always checks the loan after it leaves underwriting. I have saved many a loan over something as simple as the broker promised no PPP and it came back from underwriting with one attached.

Simple solution, I call the BO who states there should be no PPP. Then I call the TC to let them know I'm calling the broker/LO. I get them on the phone, and every single time thier reply is the same..." OMG let me call underwriting and I will call you right back" The TC and the Broker appreciate the assistance a good signing agent provides. Just because you are farming out the work doesn't mean the signing agent actually "works" for you.

Then guess what. The broker calls me back..thanks me profusely cause now I'm the hero..and says one of two things: Either- that the TC is sending me new docs showing no PPP. Or, underwriting says the PPP stands and its been explained to the borrower who is now ready to sign. Simple. Everybodys happy. Start printing. The loan funds and you get paid

Reply by Charm_AL on 9/6/06 10:32am
Msg #143848

flaskmac...

please stop drooling. It is so unbecoming of even someone of your stature. You are a legend in your own mind. A perfect case of a little (very little) knowledge is a dangerous thing. You are making up the rules as you go. I can't believe you're still in business and what nerve you have to come here and spout off what you think we should do. Have another drink and take a nap.

When I call to confirm an appt., I do not go over any info, I have not I.D.'d the borrower yet DORK.
If someone, and not once have I been asked - asks me anything, I let them know that I have been contracted by their company to close the loan as an independant mobile notary signing agent and they should speak with their LO if they have questions.
I have never not gotten paid for a loan not funding.
I can't believe you are this stupid to discuss someone's loan with a 'voice' on a phone. You should be reported and put out of our misery.

Reply by Brenda/CA on 9/6/06 12:29pm
Msg #143860

Re: flaskmac is right (more fitting then flamac)

It is not your place to discuss the terms of the loan with the borrowers. Your job is to ID the borrowers (you cannot do this over the phone), and witness the loan signing. You are a "Notary", not an Attorney or a LO. You are not a hero saving loans, but you are practicing UPL.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/6/06 11:43am
Msg #143856

Re: TC's & Lenders love me cause I'm the best. We don't need..

**I have saved many a loan over something as simple as the broker promised no PPP and it came back from underwriting with one attached. **

IMHO no notary has the power to "save" a loan. That is between the consumer and the lending institution.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 9/6/06 9:44am
Msg #143837

Pix is telling it like it really is folks

BUT I'm sure I don't have to sing to the choir. It's all about getting caught in that "let's help the borrower" mode and while there's nothing wrong with that thought pattern it is NOT the way to perform our jobs. Too many variables with the borrowers that we're not privy to, they may have a lovely home and be grand folks on the surface but the fact remains that they are refi' for a reason we are not made aware of. ONLY their LO knows all the facts about their loan and ONLY their LO should be explaining to them the why's and wherefor's. I learned this the hard way when I closed for a close friend who used another of our friend's (a LO) to write the loan. I kept my mouth shut (boy was that tough) and went directly to the LO's home with the docs because I personally needed some clarity. I couldn't imagine my LO friend was a "bait and switch" person, she had integrity and I had trust and respect for her. That's where I learned all about underwriting, all the intricate details that these folks are able to find out about people, and all the rules and regs that specific lenders stick to like glue. Things are never what we think, to assume you know everything about a person is to set yourself up for failure because we all have things we keep close to the vest. Our financial information IS confidential, period. The LO's are with their clients from beginning to end, it's their obligation to be sure their clients are kept aware. Parents don't want their children knowing their business, children don't want their parents knowing....and on and on. The situation Renee cited as far as ID's is a perfect example! My main point is that we MUST remain neutral, we cannot feel their pain, cannot fix their problems. We're there to ID, witness, notarize and return...PERIOD. If, as an SA, you feel that a trip may be wasted if you don't share what you feel are important details with the borrower over the phone, you're in the wrong business.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 9/6/06 6:40pm
Msg #143926

Like many other NSAs, I am GLAD that ...

... Title Companies, Escrow Companies, and Signing Services read this Forum! Reviewing the messages posted by various people would give the company a very clear picture of who was competent, who was just starting out (NOT a bad thing!), and who was asking very basic should-be-known-by-anyone-with-a-commission questions.

Remember, a lot of people "lurk", reading but not Posting.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/6/06 9:08pm
Msg #143965

Re: SS's hide in here..you bet your booty!

I have to kinda disagree with one point you made:

"...if every closing were perfect we would all be making 10x what we do!"

Actually, I believe if every closing were perfect [I'm interpreting that to mean the docs and all the prep work before we show up], our job would be easier and worth less. I feel we earn our fees by how we deal with the problems. (But then, I suspect that was the point you were trying to make, no?...)

Reply by Jason on 9/6/06 2:52pm
Msg #143877

Agree w/ HC. I don't work for trip fees either. n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/6/06 9:56am
Msg #143840

Here's an idea...don't work for trip fees...

I don't and any self respecting SA shouldn't. FlaMac obviously does not value her time. Perhaps it's because her time and "expertise" is not of value to anyone, not even herself.

Reply by PAW on 9/6/06 10:56am
Msg #143851

Your sweeping comments are absurd.

Flamac has stated: "Also, there are mortgage brokers that are also signing agents. Which IMO is unethical and a conflict of interest. Some lenders are becoming even more strict and requiring the SA to sign a statement stating that they are NOT a broker or agent and have no affiliation with the lender.You'll find that you get very prejudicial advice from them..and it always leans towards the broker...and not the BO."

Well, there are lots of signing agents that are also mortgage brokers and/or loan officers/originators. I am one of them. There is nothing wrong in that as long as a conflict does not exist. That is, an NSA/broker should not sign their own deals. But there is no reason that a broker/LO can't 'close' another deal. No conflict of interest exists.

A good NSA who is also a good broker will not be prejudiced toward the broker side. You are completely out of your mind if you think that. Brokers don't watch out for other brokers at the signing table. Most brokers that I work with and have had contact with are above board and always are looking out for the borrower. That's what brokers (for the most part) do.

Oh, there are bad apples in every bunch, but your blanket statements that implies all brokers are sleazy (my word, not yours) is just ridiculous.

As for "going over the docs with the BO is a great idea", my trusted friend, adviser and counsel told me never to initiate any conversation on those lines and never divulge specifics on the phone. Why? You simply do not know who is on the other end. Besides that, if anything you say is misinterpreted by the homeowner, it is the NSA that could get the brunt of the wrath. For example, if you misquoted the rate or the borrower simply misunderstood the rate and called their LO, it's your neck (actually another part of the anatomy I was thinking of) that gets fried. In my professional opinion, and that of counsel, just don't do it. Of course, there will be times when you need to, but extreme care and superior judgment must be used. Which apparently you seem to throw to the wind.

Reply by patricia on 9/6/06 11:08am
Msg #143854

Re: this sometimes works

there have been a few times (with permission of loan rep) I have faxed the HUD and note to the borrower for them to review and then schedule appt. I never verbally quote information from the paperwork over the telephone, and yes, sometimes the person on the phone is not the borrower but a house guest who would like to borrow some money from the homeowner.

Reply by FlaMac on 9/6/06 12:09pm
Msg #143858

Said like a true Broker, Paw. Everyone has thier own..

standard of ethics. All brokers are not bad just like all social workers are not bad If the Broker has been honest and upfront with the Borrower than why are you making such an issue? The SA's phone call merely confirms that all is correct. It's a bad reflection on the SA when showing up to find the paperwork is wrong. And what about when the TC forgets to list the non-borrowing spouse? You don't think title appreciates the "heads up" that the paperwork isn't going to fly? What is the point of doing a signing that you know won't fund?

I assumed that anytime you call a BO you confirm thier identity regardless of your reason for calling. That is easily done by asking them for identifying information. The SA simply should state the interest rate as written on the Note by asking Mrs/Mr Borrower the following question, " The note shows your rate is 6 percent is that correct?" If the answer is "No" the borrower will immediately advise you that they want to call thier contact aka broker/LO. And, if they don't you simply ask them if they want to contact the broker or sign the note as is. You do as the borrower instructs within the law. Period. If they want to sign it knowing its a higher rate than that's thier right.

It's very basic and it eliminates the SA from knowingly being involved in anything that could be considered dishonest. I've had more than one broker/lo tell the BO to sign the note anyway and that the lender would adjust the rate at a later date. When the BO ask's me to confirm that...I simply smile and state that I cannot give them legal advice but that the Correction Agreement does not allow the interest rate to be changed. Borrower's aren't stupid for goodness sake. They figure the broker out on thier own with no help from the SA.

Reply by LawrenceOK on 9/6/06 3:51pm
Msg #143887

Re: Said like a true Broker, Paw. Everyone has their own..

You FlaMac, would be well advised to stop this practice before it comes back to burn your butt. When you contact the borrower, you are ONLY to confirm the scheduled appointment and if need be, get directions. I work with both local and nationwide TC's & LO's and not one of them would appreciate my discussing the terms of a loan. It IS UPL. jmo

Reply by FlaMac on 9/6/06 4:24pm
Msg #143894

Another "point & sign" notary are you?..In Florida the BO..

must have an understanding of the doc before its notarized. So, now go take your foot out of your mouth, dude. You guys must do alot of questionable business with all the whining you do about the BO knowing what they sign...before they sign it.

You've proven in the past that you're in no position to advise us of anything. Stop making all of us look bad with your bs!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/6/06 4:29pm
Msg #143895

Re: Another "point & sign" notary are you?..In Florida the BO..

Sure they have to understand what they are signing. And I always ask them do they understand the document. If they don't then they must call their loan officer to explain.
We are not allowed to explain legal documents to them, that is UPL and you are crossing your boundaries as a notary/signing agent if you are explaining the documents to the borrower.
I can say this is your note, and point out the interest rate and tell them that is their interest rate etc, but I cannot explain it to them.

Reply by FlaMac on 9/6/06 5:17pm
Msg #143913

That is EXACTLY what I do. Where did I say different?..

And, if the terms are correct there is no need to call the broker or explain anything. Further proof that some folks don't read so good...

Reply by Charm_AL on 9/6/06 5:25pm
Msg #143916

Re: That is EXACTLY what I do. Where did I say different?..

HOW DO YOU KNOW THE TERMS ARE CORRECT???? DO YOU HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL????

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/6/06 7:45pm
Msg #143940

Re: That is EXACTLY what I do. Where did I say different?..

Okay...let me get this straight...except for Notary Fran MacDonald, everyone is wrong, not reading, not comprehending...all who disagree with her are "just another point and sign notary," negative, etc., etc.

No one---nooooo one--- is able to speak with any intelligence on this topic except for Notary MacDonald?

I swear I don't think FlaMac is serious. She's *got* to be just playing jokes here!

These huge, exaggerated general statements will fall on the "right" ears and get lazy, ignorant people out of business faster than you can shake a stick.

If they believe these types of general, large, all-encompassing, capricious statements, it will be for the best.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 9/6/06 10:01am
Msg #143842

PJM, a question

how do you know you're talking to THE borrower? I ask this because a few weeks ago I was scheduled to do a signing. When I called to confirm the appointment I asked (as always) Mr. John Smith please. "This is Mr. Smith" was the reply and I had a very agitated gentleman on the other end of the phone. I identified myself and said that I would be bringing some docs to his home at 3 p.m. and just wanted to verify he would be there. I was asked what company was sending me, was this the refinance, and a number of other questions. My alarms were going off and I was attempting to reply when I heard a scuffle in the background. Turns out my Mr. Smith was indeed Mr. Smith, he was the son who was worried that his dad was "giving away his inheritence" and wanted to know the particulars NOW. The real Mr. Smith got on the phone and verified the appointment. You can imagine what I expected when I got there, NOT. The real Mr. Smith was a young 51 year old who had a totally unmanageable and greedy son. Had I given confidential information there is no telling what would have transpired. I ALWAYS refer the client to the LO AND I call the LO personally to let them know Mr. Smith is requiring information prior to appointed time.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/6/06 10:04am
Msg #143843

Re: Going over the docs.. on the phone PJM

IMO, the best way to go about this is to put in a call to the LO. It is LOs job to sell the loan. If brws have questions before the signing and refuse to contact the LO, you should call the LO and explain that the brws want the info before you head out. There is no need to make this job any harder than it already is. Know your role in the closing process and don't waiver.

Oh, and don't work for trip fees. Trip fees = hogwash.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/6/06 10:43am
Msg #143849

Re: Going over the docs.. on the phone Becca

I also refer the borrowers to their LO if they have questions regarding their loan when I call to confirm the signing appointment AND call the title company or LO to alert them to the situation. I can think of only two times when I have discussed loan terms on the phone, both were 2nd trips being made because the loan terms weren't right on the first trip.

I don't work for trip fees. When I confirm an appointment and make the trip, I expect to be paid my full fee and most of the companies I deal with understand this policy.

Reply by christiSocal on 9/6/06 3:01pm
Msg #143880

I guess I've been lucky

Only once did I have a borrower ask on the phone about numbers. She wanted me to fax her the Hud. She refused to see me until she had it. I called the ss to ask them how to proceed. They called LO and it was ok'd to send. All went well. I would NEVER send or phone that kind of info without an ok first! It's not our job to deal with any of that.