Posted by Dennis D Broadbooks on 9/10/06 6:55am
Msg #144907

OT/Real Estate Question

My youngest sister sold her home & the closing took place a couple of weeks ago. The real estate agents representing the buyers & sellers are in the same office & my sister's agent came to her over the past few days saying the buyers now want her to replace the carpeting in the entire home. They are saying they discovered places in the carpeting where a dog had urinated & it couldn't be cleaned. According to my sister there are no written references in the closed sales contract which address any carpeting issues. From a real estate perspective how should my sister respond to this & what responsibilites does she have as the seller to the buyer based on the sales contract not specifically referencing this? BTW, I realize there may be some things being left out of the equation here as my sister couldn't tell me everything in a 10 minute phone conversation. I'd like someone to give me a sense of how my sister should respond to a situation like this based on their experience as a real estate agent. Any constructive feedback is appreciated.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 9/10/06 6:58am
Msg #144908

Ha, ha, ha, ho, ho, ho. n/m

Reply by Joan_OH on 9/10/06 7:06am
Msg #144909

My thoughts exactly!

Personally, I would just say no and see where the RE agents want to take it. Probably nowhere if carpet is not specified in the purchase contract. Believe me, they would have to legally make me do it.

Joan-OH

Reply by Genkichan on 9/10/06 7:08am
Msg #144910

This is a very simple question, actually. The buyers probably had a home inspection contingency in the contract. I don't know about your state, but around here, after the buyers get the home inspection report, they have a specific period of time (3 days in MD) to decide if they either want to 1) continue with the purchase, 2) try to renegotiation with sellers on problem areas that were discoverd, or 3) back out of the purchase entirely. This purchase has already been made, and the buyer already bought the house subject to the inspection. The seller has no obligation whatsoever. An inspector would also probably laugh at any attempt to go after him/her for not "discovering" the problem. Inspectors are there to check the functioning of the main systems in the house, not this type of thing. Finally, you could tell the buyers that they should have excersied their right to a "final walk through" of the home prior to closing date. If all the furniture was gone and they checked the house one day prior, perhaps they would have noticed it and could have approached the seller at that time. Your sister is well beyond any negotiating over petty things like this. If the roof were leaking, it might be a different story. Tell the buyers to go get a dog of their own...it'll cover up the smell. (haha)

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/10/06 7:17am
Msg #144913

The realtor has his head in a dark place.

The ONLY way your sis would owe them some carpet is if somehow she hid the spots or misrepresented them somehow (i.e. has it in writing that there are no pets). In CA we're kinda disclosure crazy, so maybe just maybe a buyer could pull a "they didn't tell me"... maybe...

Okay, here's the deal, if your sister somehow is resposible for hiding the spots, so is the realtor... and seeings how he's a dual agent (doesn't matter that they're two agents, same broker) well he's extra responsible.

Your sister should just tell him to go away... in whatever words suit her.

Reply by GF_CA on 9/10/06 10:22am
Msg #144922

Gary you are right.

If the seller and both realtor didn't disclosure that in the house the were pets, well ... can be filled a lawsuit.

Reply by Diga2Lin/FL on 9/10/06 8:44am
Msg #144916

Re: Your sister should send the Buyers

a couple cans of Carpet Fresh and call it a day - and IMO THAT'S being generous. I don't know MO real estate law but absent proof of misrepresentation I don't see where they have a leg to stand on - they knew the condition of the house at contract (not sure a home inspection would divulge carpet stains) and went through with the closing. Two weeks later they want the entire home recarpeted??? Bull..

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/10/06 9:34am
Msg #144919

No...Diga2Lin/FL... it should be completed IGNORED n/m

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/10/06 9:30am
Msg #144918

26 yrs. R.E. Broker: Your sister should totally ignore this. Period. And I do mean ignore, nada, nothing, no conversations with anyone.

Reply by Mia on 9/10/06 10:48am
Msg #144926

Re: OT/Real Estate Question - Dennis

As you have stated Dennis, you don't know all the details -- neither
do the rest of us. I would suggest that your Sister make an
appointment with a Real Estate Attorney (usually the first consultation
is free) -- have her take all the Closing paperwork with her.

There may be something in "small print" that your Sister missed --
then maybe they are just trying to pull something over on her.

Either your Sister can ignore the phone calls until she speaks with an
Attorney, or tell her to tell the Real Estate Agent that she has made an
appointment with an Attorney to discuss this issue.

Now this is just my thought -- if your Sister agrees to replace the carpeting,
then what will be next.... they want her to replace the tile in the bathrooms
because, the new owners don't like the color? This could go on and on.

Nip this in the bud --- Talk To An Attorney!

Reply by kathy/ca on 9/10/06 11:45am
Msg #144932

Its a moot point, his sister wont replace the carpeting, why

because, the deal is a done deal, period. No reason to go to the expense of any attorney ( "first consultation is free", ha ha dont make me laugh!), she should ignore the whole situation and it will go away!!~

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/10/06 11:50am
Msg #144934

Mia is my pick

Being a pro-active person who takes no crap, I prefer Mia's approach.

Reply by Sherri_mo on 9/10/06 12:11pm
Msg #144935

Re: Mia is my pick

I disagree completely, I do not know what the deal is with everyone wanting to run to an attorney. There were without question inspection and final walk-thru stipulations in their sales contract that had to be addressed prior to closing. Once closed this is moot and I would tell this Real Estate agent to drop dead along with the buyer. If he wants to provide his client with new carpet, let him, but the seller is beyond all her obligation in this transaction.
Certainly no need to run to a lawyer for nothing, and I assure you that the first consultation being free doesn't mean a thing, as the attorney will naturally be looking for some way to generate personal income.
In 22 years in Real Estate, I have seen few situations where an attorney was beneficial unless there was fraud or misrepresentation.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/10/06 12:17pm
Msg #144936

Re: Mia is my pick

**I do not know what the deal is with everyone wanting to run to an attorney. **

Ah, yes...sweeping generalizations. *Everyone* did not say to go to an attorney. Only Mia and I seem to agree on that.

I have found legal counsel/representation to be beneficial to get naggers and whiners to put up or shut up. It's peace of mind.

Reply by Sherri_mo on 9/10/06 12:30pm
Msg #144941

Re: Mia is my pick

No offense Brenda, My experience has been that most attorneys, unless they specialize in Real Estate Contracts, don't know much more than the man on the street about how to resolve this type of situation. I have sold homes to probably 15 to 20 attorneys, and was amazed at their lack of knowledge in this area. And as a Real Estate agent, have had a few attorneys ask me to testify in court as an expert witness on similar type problems.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/10/06 12:55pm
Msg #144947

Re: Mia is my pick

**My experience has been that most attorneys, unless they specialize in Real Estate Contracts, don't know much more than the man on the street about how to resolve this type of situation**

I gotcha. My experience is totally the opposite. I worked with true real estate attorneys who could look the sales contract over in ten minutes and say Yay, or Nay. $150 to $200 is going to get a lot of peace of mind, or at least steer me in a true direction.

Six years ago I sold a piece of property and took payments on it. The buyer who purchased it decided to sell it to another person with a wrap around note. We had a realtor who wanted to monitor the situation. He brought the buyer to me. He brought the second buyer to my buyer.

The realtor was a nice man, but he was a mover and shaker who did not want to deal with the details, but rather deal with commissions.

I chose to see a real estate transaction attorney who made darn sure that my interests were protected and I slept better. He completely rewrote the contract to benefit me.

You see, what if buyer #2 started building on it, I'd have no say and so...what if I were to need to take the property back (foreclose on it) and I did not like the current building situation. I just did not need to have to worry about how my own interests were protected. That's what attorneys are for.

I know enough real estate law to know I don't know it all. That's all I am saying.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/10/06 11:36pm
Msg #145045

Re: Mia is my pick

I think I would chose to go with Brenda and Mia. But finding the right lawyer is key. I happen to know a very good business/real estate lawyer who has helped me on a number of occasions with minor questions. He does, in fact, do a free phone consultation, which is often all that is needed. If an attorney said to me that according to my state's laws there was nothing in this situation that I needed to worry about, I'd feel a lot more confident. I, too feel that the challenge we often have with legal issues is that we don't know what we don't know. And what if that buyer is an irrational person who decides to try to take some kind of legal action (warranted or otherwise) or just threatens to do it to intimidate. They might be less inclined to pursue it if they knew the seller had consulted a lawyer.

BTW, I've never received a bill from the attorney I know and I recommend everyone try to develop some kind of an association with a business and/or RE attorney, if possible. We never know what we might find ourselves dealing with.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 9/10/06 12:56pm
Msg #144948

My question is

Dennis originally stated that both realtors for the buyer and seller were in the same office. Most likely Brenda is thinking like I am...ut oh. I too would spend the money on an attorney to be sure someone didn't push me through my docs at signing and perhaps something is actually there that her realtor misinterpreted. And my final question would be why would an attorney ever ask you to testify as an expert witness? The docs (seems to me) have the ultimate last word...probably one of the reasons people should take a hard look at them and not trust the person making a buck off the transaction. In this day and age it's ALL ABOUT THE MONEY

Reply by Sherri_mo on 9/10/06 1:14pm
Msg #144955

Re: My question is

Sue: If you have worked with Real Estate contracts I am sure you have found that thay can be very ambigious with many clauses indirectly contradicting each other and I have been asked to provide my opinion on how they are interpreted in a typical transaction by the local Real Estate community.

Brenda: I completely agree with you in the situation you described. In Dennis's question, this was a transaction that was already closed and any thing of the nature he described should have been addressed long before the final closing.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/10/06 1:28pm
Msg #144960

Re: My question is

**Brenda: I completely agree with you in the situation you described. In Dennis's question, this was a transaction that was already closed and any thing of the nature he described should have been addressed long before the final closing.**

Actually, Sherri, my transaction was closed also. I am not arguing with you on Dennis' sister, but just being clear on my own situation. Lawyers involved can mean different outcomes and I want to be lawyered up if there is any possibility of a problem.

I had already sold the property and closed on the deal and was taking payments on it. When I found out that there was going to be a subsequent purchase with a wrap-around (and I don't remember what caused me to know about it) I took my original papers to the lawyer, asked him to intervene on my behalf and negotiate re-writing the contract between buyer one and buyer two for the second purchase.

This was a case where it only made good sense that I would not go along with the situation--if I had a leg to stand on, but that I would need additional protection. Up until that point, no lawyer had been involved as I did not get a lawyer when I signed the sales contract between me and buyer one.

It's convoluted, I know, but just wanted to be clear. It got me a pay-off before any further thing happened to the land. I would have liked to continue the payments, but the concern for what was going to happen to the property was paramount over me continuing to earn interest.

I pulled out my Texas R.E. law book and I am going to try to find a situation with a case example that fits D's situation. If I do not post further, there is not one.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 9/10/06 1:05pm
Msg #144951

Re: OT/Real Estate Question-It would appear to me it's a






done deal. Are the buyers extremely picky? If so it was their responsibility to closely inspect every aspect of the house that was of greatest importance to them. If the carpet was so disgusting it would seem this would have not only stood out to the perspective buyer but there would been an obvious pet odor. If one has animals, this is bound to have happened at one time or another. I suggest the buyers purchase a cleaning agent specifically for pet odor stains, there are many out there that really do work wonders. I suggest the carpet was most likely fine, perhaps the buyers are attempting to see how far they can push your sister. I would stand strong and tall.....But no way would I replace the carpet in the entire house, totally unreasonable. No need to bring in a lawyer.........if you did it might just be cheaper to re-carpet the entire house with a cheap product.....I would however not avoid the situation, I would be up front and discuss.....

Reply by Sherri_mo on 9/10/06 1:18pm
Msg #144956

Re: OT/Real Estate Question-It would appear to me it's a

I agree with you about not ignoring the situation, but I would certainly make it very clear to my RE agent where I stood. Especially with both agents being from the same office, it is similar to creating a dual agency position with a lot of room for collusion.

Reply by Dennis D Broadbooks on 9/10/06 5:59pm
Msg #144988

Thank You to All...

...who responded to my query. In spite of some procedural differences as how to deal with this, I come away with the underlying "theme" that the buyer doesn't have a leg to stand on with their request. That was my initial take when my sister told me the story, but I'm not a real estate agent. I'll leave it up to my sister as to whether she feels an attorney is worth spending the extra money for the peace of mind it may provide.

I'm appreciative of each one of you who took the time to reply.