Posted by BrendaTx on 9/1/06 5:32pm
Msg #143012

POA Call...what would you do?

A man called me just a short while ago. He wanted to make an appointment with me to notarize the signature on a power of attorney for his father who was going into the hospital soon.

Me: "Okay. Sure."

And, then the other shoe dropped. He said, "My dad has dementia and he needs for me to take over his business affairs."

I stopped him and said, "So he is unable to call me himself, or to understand how to handle his affairs?"

"Yeah."

I answered, "I feel like you have already given me too much information to allow for me to go and do this."

And, I went on to explain that the signer needs to know what he is signing. The guy argued with me...said, "But he has moments when he is lucid!" I finally said that I felt I was at the end of what I could do for him. He had given me too much information.

Would you have gone and made that judgment yourself, or would you have felt like I do...that you'd be perpetrating fraud on someone who is unable to understand what he is signing?

The caller was angry at me when I pulled out of the deal.

To me, this seemed like a means of catching myself in a bad situation.

Reply by Jahari Davis on 9/1/06 5:41pm
Msg #143016

Was there anyone else to corroborate that this guy was in fact his son and that he is in fact the man's power of attorney? Could you have gotten a doctor to corroborate the man's mental faculties? I suspect things like this could happen to others in nursing homes across the country by unscrupulous nurse aids and such posing as family to gain power over someones estate. With all these unanswered variables, you did the right thing.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 9/1/06 9:43pm
Msg #143065

***Was there anyone else to corroborate that this guy was in fact his son and that he is in fact the man's power of attorney?***

She said it was a phone call, Einstein.

***Could you have gotten a doctor to corroborate the man's mental faculties?***

Why would anyone go to so much trouble when it was clear that the signer didn't have all his faculties? Are you sure you have a notary commission?

***I suspect things like this could happen to others in nursing homes across the country by unscrupulous nurse aids and such posing as family to gain power over someones estate.***

Wow, what an observation.

Jahari, if you don't know the answer to a posted question, then please don't question the original poster with all these queries - others would rather you just didn't post if you don't have anything of value to say.

Reply by Jahari Davis on 9/6/06 1:15am
Msg #143783

***sigh*** Sue, grow up...please!!!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/1/06 5:41pm
Msg #143018

I would have told him to have it done through an attorney
Chances are it is something he has drawn up himself. I wouldn't get involved in it. How do you know you can catch him in a "lucid" moment.

You did right

Reply by Charm_AL on 9/1/06 5:43pm
Msg #143020

rest easy Bren, this was pst your call, they need an attorney

Reply by DellaCa on 9/1/06 6:31pm
Msg #143034

I would have made the same call you did and I have in the past.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/1/06 5:44pm
Msg #143021

Ultimately you have to look at yourself in the mirror...

If in the final analysis you did what you morally believed to be right then you did the right thing. For what it's worth, I would have done the same. In my opinion you took the high road and made the choice that was morally right. Hopefully you will sleep well knowing it was the right thing to do.

Reply by Signing_Doc on 9/1/06 5:46pm
Msg #143024

"Well Done Thou Good and Faithful Servant" n/m

Reply by Brad_CA on 9/1/06 5:47pm
Msg #143025

Brenda you did the right thing. You asked him the question, "So he is unable to call me himself, or to understand how to handle his affairs?" He responded "Yeah." That's it right there. You can not notarize it. I have had several of these.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 9/1/06 5:49pm
Msg #143026

There is no doubt one thing: The signer must know what they are signing and the ramifications thereof. Period.

Some people with dementia have periods / moments of lucidity. On frequent occasions I go to a convelescent home near me to do pro bono (non-loan) signings for patients. There are times when the signer is an Alzheimer's sufferer or has dementia. Once in a while the patient is not "oriented in time and space" (that is, does not know what month and year it is or where they are) and/or cannot undertand what they are signing. In those cases, I CANNOT notarize the document(s). In other cases, the patient can focus, knows when and where they are, and does understand exactly what they are signing.

I always warn the person calling me that I will have to talk with the signer WITHOUT any prompting from the caller. If prompting goes on, I exit stage rapidly.

If a person called and gave the information you have described, I'd follow my gut. I MIGHT meet and decide or I might turn it down flat.

Always give prayerful consideration and go with your gut.

Reply by sasha/nj on 9/1/06 5:58pm
Msg #143029

I also had a similar situation wanting me to notorize a poa for his father who was in the hospital. You must be careful when traveling It could be a hoax to get you out there. I had a sixth sense this was not "kosher". I politely refused saying I had several other appts. and told him his local bank could notorize. ps the fact that this man became irate should have told you something was up

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/1/06 5:58pm
Msg #143030

**Some people with dementia have periods / moments of lucidity. ** This occurred to me, too, Ernest. I just felt bad in my gut about it.

Thanks for the responses everyone.

Reply by JM_NY on 9/1/06 6:53pm
Msg #143040

I would have recommend he get a lawyer.

He needs to get the courts to declare the father incompetent.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/1/06 6:56pm
Msg #143041

Re: I would have recommend he get a lawyer.

Yep, could not agree more.

I am ashamed to say there are those in my own family who have taken their own parent to a lawyer's office to have a will changed post-onset of dementia. The rat skank did it.

It's not easy to find a mobile notary in these parts...but I'll bet you that they'll accomplish their mission.

What they need is a temporary guardianship.

Reply by TitleGalCA on 9/1/06 9:47pm
Msg #143067

Brenda - you made a very easy decision - the caller said his Dad had dementia and of course you made the right decision.

The fact that the caller was angry just enforced your instinct and knowledge.

I hope new notaries take note of your post as being of sound mind is a basic requirement in all states that I know of.

Reply by Joan_OH on 9/1/06 11:06pm
Msg #143086

Whenever I am called by a relative for a Nursing Home notarization, I try to find out why they are in the Nursing Home. If I can't get a straight answer, I will straight out ask if the signer has dimentia, alzheimers, memory impairment, or is compentant. If any of the above apply, I ALWAYS refer them to an attorney.

I may meet a signer at a lucid moment, but should it get ugly later on with family, estates, etc, I am not going to risk the liability. Attorneys have E&O for these types of things - we don't.

Quite frankly, I think family members would save themselves a whole lot of grief if they just hired an attorney to handle these affairs.

Joan-OH

Reply by Lynn Lowry on 9/3/06 7:48pm
Msg #143277

I would have told him that if his father has dementia, the correct process would not be a power of attorney, but to go to court to obtain guardianship.