Posted by NCLisa on 9/29/06 9:56pm
Msg #149401

Point & Sign or Explain the Docs?

Some notaries ideas of UPL just drives me nuts. It is not UPL if you don't give legal advice or render a legal opinion.

I just got home from a closing where the borrower didn't sign the documents last night. She said that the notary that came last night said she could not tell her anything about her docs. That borrower just needed to sign and date, and she could call this number if their were any questions. She said that it made her uncomfortable that the notary didn't seem to know anything. I went there tonight, showed her the interest rate, showed her the first payment, last payment, amount of payment, that her loan had a balloon payment. She called the LO from the table to thank him for sending me out instead of the other girl again.

It is not UPL if you don't render an opinion or give legal advice. Bring a release with you for the borrower to sign that they realize you aren't an attorney. But tell the people what is in their documents. You are getting paid to well to do nothing more than to point and say sign here.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/29/06 10:21pm
Msg #149408

You are right Lisa
There is a difference between explaining the docs (which is UPL) and identifying them and pointing out the key points. "This is your interest rate" "this is when your interest rate changes"(on ARM's) etc and pointing out the items on the document.

Gee, if all we did was point and say "sign here" how much faster the signings would go LOL

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/29/06 10:21pm
Msg #149409

You are right Lisa
There is a difference between explaining the docs (which is UPL) and identifying them and pointing out the key points. "This is your interest rate" "this is when your interest rate changes"(on ARM's) etc and pointing out the items on the document.

Gee, if all we did was point and say "sign here" how much faster the signings would go LOL

Reply by Linda_H/FL on 9/29/06 10:27pm
Msg #149413

Re: Sylvia's got the hiccups again..<G>.. n/m

Reply by PJM/MI on 9/30/06 6:04am
Msg #149447

I went to closing last night where the borrowers wanted their personal attorney present to look over the docs. He told me after the closing he was very impressed by my explaination of the docs to his clients, and he has sat at many a closing where the even the title companies are just "point & sign".
By explaining the docs, we're not offering or giving ANY legal advice. Everything we show the borrower is right there in front of 'em in black & white.
The first thing I tell the borrowers is, "you don't have read everything tonight, but I am going to go over the high points of your loan documents". After I have gone over the items they really need to know, I reinterate those items again before they even pick up the pen.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/30/06 7:42am
Msg #149452

Pure ignorance and/or laziness

in not showing the highlights of the docs and giving an explanation of what they are, and where certain information can be found.
I had to STUDY and learn the docs first, lol
IMO, there are way too many NSA's out here in loan-signing-land who haven't a clue, or just don't care.

Reply by MelissaM_FL on 9/30/06 9:55am
Msg #149502

Notary looking at a book during the signing

I did a re-sign of a loan Thursday night where the borrower had attempted to sign loan docs three times before. Apparently all three times the same notary came to her and could not explain anything without having to look in some kind of reference book. Ms. Borrower asked this other notary what her interest rate was and the notary had to look up where to find that information!

When I arrived, Ms. Borrower asked me several questions about her interest rate, whether it was adjustable and when the adjustment would happen. I pointed those items out to her without hesitation and she asked to call her LO immediately. Once the LO was on the phone, Ms. Borrower proceeded to tell the LO that, had the LO sent me to start with, the entire process could have been done in one shot!

So, to whichever notary in St Lucie County, Florida, is still looking at a training book during signings, perhaps it's time to do some studying so that you can answer the borrower's questions at the table without using the book. Or, continue to use the book, since I got paid almost double my fee to correct your errors.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 9/30/06 10:09am
Msg #149507

Re: Notary looking at a book during the signing

I used to read over a reference manual prior to each appt when I first started, and take it with me, but there are certain things (like interest rate) that we should absolutely know prior to our first appt.
Thanks, NNA for making people think this is so easy.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/30/06 3:58pm
Msg #149550

Good for you!! As you well know, most borrowers aren't at all familiar with these docs and just pointing out the key elements can put them at ease. In fact, I often find that when I tell them that I am going to do that first, I can visibly see them relax. And they really do appreciate when you can go right to the document that has the answers to their questions. Obviously, reading the answer right from the doc is not UPL. Interpreting what it means is UPL.

I'm glad to see this thread because there have been too many lately indicating that it is an either/or situation. There IS a very important middle ground between "explaining" that crosses the line into UPL, and "just point and sign". IMO, our role as professional SAs should be to find that middle ground. Also, IMO if someone is in and out of a borrowers home in 20 - 30 minutes (with the occasional exception and unless it is a very simple HELOC), they are just doing a point and sign job. This will vary somewhat, of course, by how many notarizations in the package and how complicated the verbiage is for your state. But I just don't see how a thorough job can be done that fast for most loan packages, if you are notarizing at the table, adequately checking ID, completing a journal and double checking your work. Again, JMO...