Posted by Gary_CA on 9/11/06 2:43am
Msg #145052

Printing e-docs hard costs.

The post about LSI got me thinking...(that's a dangerous thing).

I bought a printer for Real Estate, so it's color laser, not the machine I'd buy for this business (20 ppm black but 12ppm color, that's why I bought it) but I'm very happy with it, it has been real reliable for me and I think pretty economic. Here's how the cow eats my cabbage...

The printer: call it $400, I paid a little over $600, I see some refurb prices as low as $150(hmmm...) I did buy a refurb for another client for $250. There's still plenty out there for $500-$550-- next one will likely be cheaper, thus $400. The drum has lasted me almost 2 years, so I figure I'll want/need a new machine after the 3rd drum is gone. Printer life. 45,000 copies. Okay the rest doesn't need so much explanation. I priced lowest price I could find on supplies at the moment. I'm seeing $45 for a case of legal paper, probably can do better, but that's a price I see at the moment.

Item Price Copies
Printer $400 45,000
Drum $74 15,000
Toner $45 5,000
Paper $45 5,000

I'll spare you the math, but Excel doesn't err... 3.4 cents per copy.

You may have a more economical printer, or maybe not... one of the reasons I got this baby was cost of operation (only 7.6 full color, which is really low, and it's beautiful... I digress)

We're not talking about electricity, time or frustration here... 3.4 /page... you're making 2 copies (at least)....

Compare that to labor for the TC to make the copies, their cost (at least 2 cents) and $15 to overnight the package. Not to mention the day that adds to the process.

If any of y'all want to print 100+ copies for me, colate, organize and take them to my client I promise not to belly ache about $15.00

Okay enough rambling... I'd love to see a similar analysis on a big moma super fast 2 trayed mono laser... maybe one of those that Andy recomends.

Reply by NCLisa on 9/11/06 5:59am
Msg #145054

And printing the edocs adds an average of 30 minutes to this closing, time is money. Let us not forget that because they are edocs, and will wait until the last possible moment to send them to you, and you've been out doing closings already, you will now get to add on the mileage, gas and drive time to run back to your home office, print and then go back to the exact same neighborhood you were in! I'm in a rural area between Raleigh, Durham & Chapel Hill, it is easily 25 miles for me to get from my home to just about any closing. Oh...and lets not forget that all these last moment edocs will wreak havoc on the schedule we are trying to keep. These TC's seem to forget that we need more than their one closing a day to make ends meet!

Reply by Teddog/CO on 9/11/06 6:32am
Msg #145055

I agree with you 100% Lisa. Like you I live in a rural area. You can't stress the fact enough that you MUST have those edocs at least 3 hrs before the appointment. It's not only the the waste of time, fuel going back and forth. Companies forget we have to go through the docs to be sure we have everything and make copies of RTC if needed. When we find an error there goes more time wasted trying to straighten it out and reprinting. It seems to be a never ending battle with certain companies. They have to realize that it takes TIME to get to the bwrs home - construction-rush hour traffic-military bases rush hours to mention a few other thorns in our sides. When a company makes an appointment two days ahead of time I don't understand why those docs are not produced in a timely manner. (One of the great mysteries of life!)

One last thing "Please call us when you have trailing docs/HUD changes - we are not at home to read your emails." Overall I must say that most companies are the absolute TOPS with communcating with us and sending the docs in plenty of time. The few that aren't certainly cause us plenty of grief.

Well that's my beef for the day. lol

Say a prayer for the 911 victims, their families and all those who tried their very best on this sad day in America.

God bless and keep you all safe.

Reply by Ndwa on 9/11/06 9:14am
Msg #145076

I'll say it again! RE is a lucrative industry. You'll succeed if you know your niche and stick with it. Much like a Realtor, I'll work with a broker who's willing to pay a higher split. For the sake of discussion, here is my hard print cost. The reason I combined cost of legal & letter is b/c most of my docs are printed from raw pcl so the client get the famous Microsoft WYSIWYG (What You Sent Is What You Get).

Paper lgl+ltr ($60/10Kpg).............$0.0060
Remfr'd toner ($25/10Kpg)........... 0.0025
Printer ($300/150Kpg).................. 0.0020
Electricity (almost nothing).. ......... 0.0001
Total cost per page....................... 0.0106
Avg 250 pages per loan............... $2.6500

I'm in business for profit! It's not any client's business how economically I operate mine as long as I can provide a complete service. My fee is $xxx all inclusives (prompt, precise, proficient, professionally guaranteed).

If memory serves me right, first there were MortgageDocs, the Vital, now LSI with this reduced fee dictatorship garbage. Just glad they aren't any client of mine since they never adhered to my fee.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 9/11/06 8:51am
Msg #145071

Re: Printing e-docs hard costs. Well Gary Ca from an old cow

that has chewed many a curd, I 'll stay strong and not budge from my fees.....I know my costs to run my business and these companies can make all the demands they want for us to lower the fees, no can do from this old cow.......

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/11/06 8:58am
Msg #145075

Yeah, Yeah, I understand... but what about the HARD costs???

I totally understand about time and travel, headaches and scheduling... and $15.00 is ridiculously to cheap (and the email suggests that you should go down from $15). $25 is about standard right??? Last escrow I did, TC charged $50 for edocs...

My question was about the hard printing costs... I'm wondering how much less/more a high speed laser would cost per page.

Reply by PAW on 9/11/06 9:15am
Msg #145077

A while back, PCMagazine did a "Cost per page" analysis (see http://tinyurl.com/jb5fl for details, click on the "this table" link to view the results). While this analysis is over two years old, it better shows what the actual cost to print a page on a laser printer really is. It does not include time and labor, only the actual printing costs.

For those who don't wish to look at the table, the printing costs ranged from 1.7 to 8.8 cents per page, with an average of 3.67 cents per page (discounting the high and low values). Multiply that times 4.3% for inflation and the cost per page comes to 3.8 cents per page!

For a 100 page doc set, printed twice, the cost to print comes to $7.60.

It must be noted, that the CPP (cost per page) does NOT include the upfront cost to purchase the printer (nor the depreciated value over the life of the printer), the cost of operational expenses (electricity, footprint, air conditioning, etc.) nor the time for an operator to 'babysit' the printing. Additionally, the test was done using a 5% toner coverage of a page. I submit, that in the types of documents that we typically produce, the coverage is at least twice that (this also considers that legal size is used in our world instead of the letter size used in the test environment).

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/11/06 9:38am
Msg #145087

Finally... an answer, thanks PAW

That's the kind of data I was looking for. Not sure you can adjust for inflation from two years back because of the changing technology, but close enough. Actually if it doesn't consider the printer the consumables probably haven't changed price that much.

So here's what I learned in school today:

1. My color OKI is in line with the average

2. With hard costs in the neighborhood of $7-8 there's no way in hell you can charge 15 or less.

3. If and when I build a good signing business a used or refurbed HP 8000 would be a consideration.

Reply by PAW on 9/11/06 11:22am
Msg #145125

Cost of paper has increased significantly...

... over the past few years. "P&G cited increased pulp and natural-gas costs on Bounty paper towels and Charmin toilet paper and high zinc costs for Duracell batteries in raising prices around 6 percent on those products this year, for example." (Source: The FreeNewMexican.com http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/48688.html (Sante Fe New Mexican online) news article.) So, I submit that the 4.3% increase in consumables over the past two years is probably a bit low. Also, toner, on the most part, is a petroleum based product and is showing significant increases in cost over the past two years.

Reply by OnTheDot_CO on 9/11/06 9:28am
Msg #145081

Sure this is the raw cost, but what about your time and waiting for docs when you could be on another appointment. Also what about the cost to have high speed internet to get those documents quickly.

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 9/11/06 9:35am
Msg #145085

Re: Printing e-docs hard costs. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee

how about the stress factor alone, I'm waiting for docs, appointment is 6 p.m. and I'm stilling at 7 p.m. WHERE ARE MY DOCS??????????

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 9/11/06 9:35am
Msg #145086

Re: Printing e-docs hard costs. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee

how about the stress factor alone, I'm waiting for docs, appointment is 6 p.m. and I'm stilling at 7 p.m. WHERE ARE MY DOCS??????????

Reply by Teddog/CO on 9/11/06 1:15pm
Msg #145170

Re: Printing e-docs hard costs. Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee

Exactly the point Lisa and I were trying to make. We can spend the rest of the day "crunching" numbers. Bottom line is you really have to charge more with everything else going up in price, it's just common sense.

If you really want to get your point across all of us should email back to these companies (with PAW's cost page) included and other expenses that we incur. And just DON'T work for them. I've said it a million times before "you cannot stay in business doing $50 buck jobs."

Stick to your fees.

Just my opinion.