Posted by AngelinaAZ on 9/9/06 6:14pm
Msg #144821

Realtors present at the Closing...

Good Lord... I just did a Purchase the other day for the sellers and buyers and both sets of realtors were there. What a nightmare! Not only did I feel like the Seller's realtor was really pressuring... I thought the buyer's realtor was an IDIOT who kept giving wrong information.

Has anybody had this problem? Have any of you asked for realtor's NOT to be present and has it worked?

Reply by TitleGalCA on 9/9/06 6:21pm
Msg #144822

I've been to one signing with the buyer's realtor present and felt the entire time like the realtor was doing me a favor by having me there at all.

My role seemed to be the lowly notary while he conducted the signing. Because the "facts" were correct that he presented - I couldn't argue with him, but he had this spin to everything he said. I didn't feel like I did my job well at that one.

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/9/06 6:25pm
Msg #144824

Only once...

First closing:

Realtors, one LO, sellers and buyers at the same table. To make things even more interesting, seller was LO for buyer.

I found out this info when I tried to politely dismiss seller (their package was done).

Oh no. Seller stayed. That was fine with me. He (LO/Seller) injected something to hurry me along at every opportunity.

Interesting quadrangle, don't you think?

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 9/9/06 6:32pm
Msg #144826

That doesn't even sound legal???? What a nightmare! n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/9/06 6:43pm
Msg #144830

Said:"first closing" / I meant to note the "second closing

I started that other post about this topic with "first closing" and I meant to note the "second closing." These were the same day in a tc.

It was another nightmare.

Realtor, Buyers. LO reachable by telephone.

Buyers brought a large cash payment.

Wanted to apply it to purchase a large parcel attached to the house. A portion of the cash was supposed to be applied to the house and small acreage. So, a cash down payment, plus loan was to be applied only to the house and small acreage.

That was not the way the situation fell out. Large cash payment went against house and large parcel.

Buyers were ticked off. Wife was on lunch hour. I got EO to come into the closing room. She said, "call the LO." LO was called. He told them it had to be like that. Wife said, "Scr*w it, then. Not doing it."

Realtor was pizzed.

EO shrugged her shoulders.

The next ten or so went just fine. It was EOM.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 9/9/06 6:32pm
Msg #144825

Oh yes... they definately gave me the 'dirt under their shoe' feeling but I just ignored it. My car was nicer than theirs anyway. (How do I do a smiley with a tongue sticking out?)

The buyers realtor showed the buyers the APR and told them that was their interest rate and the wife freaked. Then the Seller's realtor explained that the APR was the 'initial interest rate that they thought you were going to get but the LO must have gotten a better one'. I quickly dealt with that fiasco but was thinking... make it easy why don't ya? Geez.

Reply by Joan_OH on 9/9/06 7:40pm
Msg #144851

"The buyers realtor showed the buyers the APR and told them that was their interest rate and the wife freaked. Then the Seller's realtor explained that the APR was the 'initial interest rate that they thought you were going to get but the LO must have gotten a better one'. I quickly dealt with that fiasco but was thinking... make it easy why don't ya? Geez."

The buyer's realtor should have never had access to the TIL. Either should have the seller's realtor.

You gotta learn real quick to take control. I know you are in THEIR office and they try to be intimidating. Try to think of it this way. They are grateful you came to them and they all didn't have to go down to the title company. No realtor is going to go to the title company which is why the closings happen in their office. If you can help it, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER let the RE agent have the paperwork. I have met very few realtors who know what to do with it unless they are doing notary closings on the side.

Every once in a while I get one that wants to sit in. They just want to see how it goes. Once they see you know what you are doing, they get bored very quickly and leave.

It takes time and practice to be really poised in these situations. If you are nervous at all, they will walk all over you in these situations. So if your not comfortable, try to appear so until you are.

Joan-OH

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 9/9/06 7:49pm
Msg #144852

I totally agree... sometimes it's hard to convey an entire situation without writing a book. The borrower had the paperwork because it was supposed to take place there and only a new HUD was sent to me. They had all been there for a while waiting for me and when I got there the paperwork was already spread out. I quickly took control... but it truly was like fighting a fire.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 9/9/06 7:59pm
Msg #144855

When I said I was there stamping away... I wasn't conveying the entire situation. The part with the TIL happened right at the beginning. When I was stamping away was when the Buyers Agent was going over some disclosures and specifics on the HUD (stuff that was supposed to be fixed from earlier at the TC) and there were a few other problems... the one with the TIL was just the one that shocked me with the misinformation. I have to be more careful when I write.. I was just trying to not blabber on in my usual fashion and look what happened!

Reply by Joan_OH on 9/9/06 10:00pm
Msg #144893

NOW I understand and my sympathies....

There was nothin you could do being doomed from the start by sending them the paperwork instead of sending it with you. I had a 4 hour closing just last week for that same reason!

Unfortunately, this title company sent it to the table and the moron assistant on the other end decided to go through it, take stuff out, make copies, and even add paperwork to it. She hands me this folder full of who know's what. She hands me the note separate and says I couldn't find the note so here is a copy and here's some stuff that needs to be signed, notarized and recorded with the Mortgage. I have no idea where she's pulled this paperwork from and I'm certain the title company did not allow for additional recording fees.

She has this binder-clipped file in her arm and she starts to walk away with it. I stopped her and asked her what that was because I could see the yellow sheet on the front with title instructions. She said, "Oh, I think that is our copy" LOL. I took possession of it and told her she should have kept her hands off and that no title company but this one sends it to the table because the people on the other end don't know what to do with it. I tried to be nice, and must have been because she asked for my card and said they were going to request me because "I was so nice"

I called the title company and said no more. You send it to me or find someone else and I will try to make sense of this mess, but you will get back what you get back and then you figure it out. I then spent an hour tearing apart all the paperwork not knowing what came in the package, what the moron added and tried to make sense of it. Buyer shows up without "certified funds" and I'm steaming because I know full well if I had been sent the file, I would have called the buyer and advised how much and must be certified.

Yeah, you just can't win when you walk in blind and never know what you'll find at the other end! Now I get it.

Joan-OH

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/9/06 8:06pm
Msg #144858

Frankly Joan, I prefer to close at the Title company...

It gives the escrow officer the edge in the closing, you are in their domain, they feel comfortable and I can just kick back and let them do their thing. Beside I really like my escrow people we even go to coffee every once in a while and they provide me with all kinds of real estsate goodies (of course reg Z had to go screw it up.)

Reply by Joan_OH on 9/9/06 9:45pm
Msg #144883

Re: Frankly Joan, I prefer to close at the Title company...

Hey Charles. RE agents are great if there's a contract question (where's the water hold on the hud? - We are splitting the owners policy?) or they ask when they will get the keys. I just want them to stay away from my paperwork. Most are clueless! You are the exception! :-)

Joan-OH

Reply by PAW on 9/9/06 8:06pm
Msg #144859

>>> The buyer's realtor should have never had access to the TIL. <<<

Just about all the purchase closings I do, even those at the title company, are with the buyers real estate agent. Often with their attorney. Whether or not the agent or attorney gets to see any document is completely up to the buyer. When the agent or attorney asks me for the HUD or any other document, I always ask the buyer if it is okay. 99.9% of the time, they will say it is. (The agent always gets a copy of the HUD after closing anyway, with their check.) But, even when the agent or attorney or anyone else is at the table, you must maintain and manage the control. When false information is being presented by the agent or attorney (they frequently don't know as much as the closer does), tactfully and politely interject the correct information.

I once had to ask a buyer's attorney to leave the table. I was trying to explain their option ARM to them and the attorney kept butting in and screwing it up. The attorney and I stepped outside of the closing room and discussed the closing. We both went back inside and I completed the closing without another peep from the attorney. Since then, I've closed three other properties with the same buyer, all without his attorney!

Reply by GF_CA on 9/9/06 10:23pm
Msg #144895

"No realtor is going to go to the title company". I'm a realtor also and , as a realtor I go to the Title Company ALL THE TIME WITH MY CLIENT.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 9/9/06 10:30pm
Msg #144898

I do in house work for a TC and I see realtors all the time. She must too... I took it as if she were saying that the realtors were having it in their location so they could try to run the show.

It seemed to me that she was saying.. "No realtor is going to try to take over the closing held in a Title Company..." not that they would NEVER go there at all.

But who knows... that's just how I took it.

Reply by Sherri_mo on 9/10/06 12:24pm
Msg #144937

I could not agree more. Any one who thinks any intelligent realtor does not go to closings is wrong. In 22 years, I attended every closing that ever happened with my clients. Much of what I gained be being at these closings has become very useful in the Notary signing agent business.
I firmly believe that I can better present a loan package than many EO's and certainly better than most agents and attorneys.

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/9/06 6:34pm
Msg #144828

Let's put this in perspective. Everyone there has a lot more riding on this than you. Given the things we see on this board, well... you get my drift... Each of the people present has undoubtedly been 'in this transaction' a whole lot longer than the notary. There is a time to just watch 'em sign & you sign/stamp. Fire away....

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 9/9/06 6:37pm
Msg #144829

Fire away is right!!! There I was minding my own business and stamping away and they were starting fires left and right.

This time I felt like the fire extinguisher... I swear the buyer would have left if I hadn't quickly showed her where to find the correct info.

Reply by Lee/AR on 9/9/06 6:43pm
Msg #144831

Well... ya' didn't start this thread saying they were THAT UNBELIEVEABLY DUMB! My apologies, Angelina. I stand corrected.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 9/9/06 6:45pm
Msg #144832

On second thought...

I guess I should look at this in the same way I look at trip fees. I hardly ever have a no-sign so I don't make a big deal out of trip fees.

This IS the first time this has happened like this and I have had many smooth closings with Realtors present. Asking them not to be there seems like a good way to lose their business.

Thanks for helping me put it into perspective!

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/9/06 7:10pm
Msg #144839

Unfortunately a lot of RE Agents, they are not all Realtors,

are inexperienced and have more money riding on the sale than they've seen in months or even ever. I like to represent my clients and my clients feel more comfortable with me there a lot of times and I'm not even sure why sometimes: I think it just brings everything to a close for that transaction. I don't do residential so most of my work doesn't have the emotional component of residential sales where everyone thinks the other guy is a crook. Most of my clients know their numbers very well and there are very few surprises at the closing. The issues are rarely the money but all kinds of niggling details of the transfer. I do a lot of repeat business and so I have title people, and notaries, tax people and attorneys I prefer to work with. Usually the atmosphere is quite collegial. It is unfortunate but most residential real estate agents I run across really have no clue, little experience, and to them its a one time deal, they don't think they'll ever see the same people again, its still no excuse for being rude and condescending.

Reply by AngelinaAZ on 9/9/06 7:20pm
Msg #144842

Re: Unfortunately a lot of RE Agents, they are not all Realtors,

***I like to represent my clients and my clients feel more comfortable with me there a lot of times and I'm not even sure why sometimes: I think it just brings everything to a close for that transaction.*

I have several Loan Officers that I love working with because they really explain things well to their clients. It makes it soooo nice. None of the 'crook talk'.

If your clients look at you this way then keep doing whatever you are doing because it certainly gets repeat business and referrals on the RE side and your little notaries will just LOVE working with you!

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/9/06 7:33pm
Msg #144847

Re: Unfortunately a lot of RE Agents, they are not all Realtors,

Thanks Angelina. I actually have clients still with me from when I started here in CA from 1984, I see them about every month or two or if they need something and they keep me busy. I haven't prospected in years. Take care, stay well and prosper!

Reply by Sherri_IN on 9/9/06 7:09pm
Msg #144837

This is just another way that each state is different. Buyers, Sellers, both realtors and the LO at closing is the norm for Indiana. In fact it is required that either the Realtor or their broker be at the closing representing their client. I think since it is the norm here the realtor knows their role and usually stays out of the signing until the end when they exchange keys and any other information they need to.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/9/06 7:14pm
Msg #144840

That is the way it should be, the agents should only be there to hold hands and provide some emotional support and stay the hell out of the way of the people who have work to do. I know I do. I think that some inexerienced agents just feel that they have to control the situation. Since they don't control the signing I'd just tell to chill while the experts conclude the deal for them. I don't get involved in title that why we pay the experts and the title company and they in turn do the closing, its their ball game!

Reply by Sherri_IN on 9/9/06 8:01pm
Msg #144856

There are always the ones that like to try to control everything and try to look good to their client. You get real good at taking control of the room and that is the key to a smooth signing. I have had to tell lots of agents that they have done the hard part, sold their clients home or found their client a home, lets get the documents signed and if they would please wait until we have finished signing everything to discuss the particulars of the home. They can do so when I am making everyone their copies. This allows you to take control of the room and at the same time strokes the Realtors ego in front of their client.

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/9/06 7:58pm
Msg #144854

This Realtor's always present, got zinged last time.

My first broker (who was my much missed favorite aunt) told me to always, ALWAYS be at sign offs. (In CA the buyer and seller will usually sign off seperately, usually 3 days prior to close) I usually go over the escrow statement with them before the officer sits down, introduce the EO and then pretty much shut up. There shouldn't be any surprises... I usually stop by the TC before the signing and take a copy of the closing statement to a pie shop with me. I'm sure there might be things I've said that the EO wishes I'd just shut up, but I think I keep them to a minimum.

Okay, the zinger... just a couple weeks ago I had a couple buying their first home (that's fun) I was the Realtor and my office had the loan too (but I'm not the LO). so I'm running through the Closing Statement with the couple and I get to all the escrow costs... $60 for notarization, $50 for edocs $15 for overnight, yada yada... none of them very big... so I just toss out... "those are all the little junk fees the TC throws in." . . . The EO didn't miss a beat... "yeah right there under all the junk fees the lender puts in."

Then I shut up and let her do the signing.

Reply by Stamper_WI on 9/9/06 8:21pm
Msg #144861

Re: This Realtor's always present, got zinged last time.

I was a Realtor for 9 yrs. At the closings the seller was never present for the loan doc part. That is none of their business. The sellers and both realtors would come in for the final doc's (HUD, DEED etc). This was done everywhere bank or tc. In my experience any issues that came up was contractual or something tossed out there by either the borrower or seller. My most memorable one was the buyer and seller got to bockering over some minor point. Finally the other Realtor stood up, stretched, laid down on the floor with his arms behind his head and asked..."well are we closing or not?"
I find life after Real Estate much less stressful!

Reply by Debra Holston on 9/10/06 12:46am
Msg #144902

What about both realtors, LO, attorney, buyers and sellers and a total fiasco. Realtors did not confer with each other so the closing was late about 2 hours. Sellers had work done on the house and wanted to charge it to the buyers, (which the wife was not going for) on top of that, they wanted to back out of their part of closing costs. The attorney was d#@* dingy and did not have all the information. The loan finally closed after about 3 hours and to top everything off the sellers had a playhouse in the back yard and the realtor for the sellers wanted it for her daughter and after the closing she said that she would make arrangements to come and get the playhouse, she should have done that before the buyers saw the house because when they put a contract on the house it included all that was on the property. Oh, did I mention the the buyer had to take over the closing because the attorney was a dimwit.
The buyer is a CSA. I am enjoying my new house. Wish I could invite you guys over for a barbeque.

Reply by Life Saving Services - Doug on 9/10/06 2:25am
Msg #144905

I am a Realtor in Southern Calif. and all the details I see on these posts should be done within 17 to 21 days into the transaction. The buyer should have signed off on all contingencies and all little details should have been settled before the loan docs are printed. Then as someone else said the seller is not invited the the Buyers signing. The buyers Realtor should only be there for moral support and to make sure the phone number and the LO is available for any questions. The only questions should be if the loan is not what the buyer agreed to.

I try to get the buyers to use only lenders that I trust. By this I know if they tell a buyer something then that is what they will see in the final docs. If it is the buyers lender and I do not know them or trust them then I will make sure I am not at the signing. As I know there will be problems and since the buyers did not trust my judgement in the first place I do not want to be in the middle.

I have a closing like that going down right now. The LO has been missing in action for over a week. The only person we are communicating with is the processor. I will be out of town on this closing and I will just cross my fingers that it goes well. I just have a feeling the buyer is going to get a surprise at the closing. You see this buyer listens to all the liars but when people tell him the truth he has a hard time handling it.

As A Realtor I would not mind supporting my customers at a closing but I do not explain the docs to them I leave that up to there lender. But of course if there is a problem I always have a good lender waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces and close the deal.

By the way if the seller is trying to re-negotiate at this point all they are doing is risking a lawsuit as all details should hve been agreed to in writing by both parties prior to any closing.