Posted by Jersey_Boy on 9/18/06 10:54am
Msg #146722

SS Cancellation due to my non-acceptance of terms. (LONG)

The following is a shortened version of an email exchange between an SS out of Florida and myself.

1.) Contacted for signing for 7pm tonight. Fee agreed upon.

2.) Receive confirmation: Two terms I feel are unacceptable.

3. Sent the following email to SS:

Thank you for contacting me for this loan signing. I have reviewed your instructions and I am unable to comply with two of the items.

***Explanation of the documents: You are being paid to explain the documents thoroughly to the borrower.***

Acting as a Notary Public in New Jersey, explaining the meaning of a document is considered Unauthorized Practice of Law. Therefore, I am unable to comply with this request.

***After the closing:... If you go to the closing and the loan does not close, you will be paid 1/2 of your fee***

Please note that I do not accept reduced fee's for services rendered. I have zero control over the terms of the documents or the borrowers willingness to sign said documents. If I arrive at the borrowers home and they refuse to sign, my fee is only reduced by $25 dollars (as long as no documents are notarized).

If these changes in terms are acceptable, please let me know via email and I will be able to complete the signing. I will wait to confirm the appointment with the borrowers until I hear from you.

Thank you for your understanding.


4. Receive this email from SS:

Thank you for your response, but I will contract another notary. In the last year of completing signings in New Jersey, you are the first notary I have heard with these ‘terms’, therefore I would feel better contacting someone else for the job. Thank you

5. Send this reply:

I am sorry that you feel that way.

I strive to serve my customers with worry-free service but always withing the boundaries of the law. Please note that ANY notary in New Jersey who is explaining the meaning of loan documents is breaking the law and no amount of E&O coverage will help a notary for willingly breaking the law.

As far as the terms with the payment, I just don't find it acceptable to reduce my fees for a cancellation or refusal to sign.

I appreciate your understanding.



5. Receive no responce from SS.



Any opinions?

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 9/18/06 11:06am
Msg #146723

Re: I'm with you JB..... n/m

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/18/06 11:07am
Msg #146724

Re: SS Cancellation due to my non-acceptance of terms. (LONG

I wouldn't have picked a fight with them over the "explain the documents" clause, but that's obviously not the problem anyway. I think you can do a lot of "thorough explaining" that's just correctly identifying the documents without giving any legal advice.

Obviously there are notaries that reduce fees for deals that fall through...some cause they're good guys and some cause they need the work. How many do you suspect fall through? How many jobs do you lose by not offering reduced fees? Do the math and stick to your plan. (That plan may be to reduce fees or not charge for "A" clients but not SS's too.)

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 9/18/06 11:10am
Msg #146726

Re: Gary I saw no fight in JB post...he stated his policy

on the issues, point blank....no fuss.......this is how he does business I admire his stick to itness.

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/18/06 11:34am
Msg #146740

No, I saw no fight either... what I think I meant...

I wouldn't even mention the part about the explanation.

Here's how I see it. When there's an ambiguous term that could be interpreted one way to mean something we all know it can't mean, it cannot mean that... no need to clarify it with an employee that has no authority over it anyway.

"Thoroughly explain the documents" cannot mean "give legal advice about the documents" Now I don't doubt that some signing service doesn't understand what legal advice is and may be expecting you to commit UPL, but there's no need to clarify it with their little pointy heads anyway.

I posted that because I think it's a good strategy. Whenever you take issue with a customer you ask "is this a hill I'm willing to die on?" Stupid contract clauses that can't be enforced anyway are not a battle I'll even respond to.

JB's tone absolutely was business, and not fighting... I would have just edited out that part... KISS principle.

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 9/18/06 11:34am
Msg #146739

GARY....

***How many do you suspect fall through?***

Had three borrowers use RTC this year. Got full fee on all.

**How many jobs do you lose by not offering reduced fees?***

So far in 2006, just two (and got other appointmets in their place anyway)... so really... Zero.

As far as my "a" clients go, I never have any doubts about no-signs, cancellations, etc.
When I send my "A" clients an invoice, they pay the invoice. Circumstances are circumstances, I perform a job, I get paid. My "A" clients know that I will bend over backwards (including walking to a signing in the rain - car was broke) to get the job done.


I was by no means picking a fight. Just stating what I felt was unacceptable. Personally, I don't like working for SS companies. My work comes from the TC and that's just the way I like it. If I see terms that are unacceptable (with SS/TC/Lender/or anybody), I try to get it fixed to my acceptance, if said company does not comply, they can find a lesser experienced notary to mess-up the job.


PS--- One of my "A" clients overnights me payment as soon as they receive the signed docs. I've told them to spare the O/N expense and just mail the check to me. They said "You're our BEST SA in Southern Jersey. You take care of us, and we'll take care of you. " I just got one of their check Overnighted to my door. I couldn't believe the FedEx man was bringing me a check on a Saturday.

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/18/06 11:37am
Msg #146742

Re: GARY....we cross posted...

Your data on no-signs vs getting paid for it was an education for me. Thanks!

Reply by hcampersFL on 9/18/06 11:10am
Msg #146727

Patrick I think that you did what you felt was best. I agree that 1/2 fees being paid for a no sign is ridiculous. That being said people do it all the time.

The point of UPL is a little different. When you conduct a closing do you go over the documents at all? In NJ are you only allowed to point and sign?

When I do a closing I will point out key items on the documents and if BR's have questions and I can't show them in black and white we call the LO. I do give a brief synopsis of the document.
Example: The Note
This is how much you are borrowing
This is your interest rate
This is when your payment starts
This is your payment amount not to include escrow
This is your pre-payment option
etc.

You can't do this in NJ?
Beverly

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 9/18/06 11:23am
Msg #146731

BEVERLY....

Pointing out terms and "thouroughly explaining the documents" are two very different things.
One involves my fingers pointing to interest rates, etc.... the other is straight up UPL.

Reply by hcampersFL on 9/18/06 11:34am
Msg #146737

JERSEY BOY

Thanks for clarifying that.

Reply by hcampersFL on 9/18/06 11:41am
Msg #146743

Re: BEVERLY....

The way I read your post was that NJ law was different than the rest of the country in regards to UPL.
I agree with you about the difference. Just didn't understand how you put it.

Sorry if I'm a dumbass!

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 9/18/06 11:42am
Msg #146744

Re: BEVERLY....

You're not a "dumbass!"

You're probably one of the smartest people I've never met!!

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 9/18/06 12:01pm
Msg #146747

Re: BEVERLY....You most certainly are not a dumb???? n/m

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/18/06 12:44pm
Msg #146761

Hey, don't be crowdin' in on my territory

I'm the only dumbass on this board...

Friday I turned down a job for 6pm today because I'm committed to an airport arrival at 5:35 (an hour and a half away)...

Last night I realise the flight arrives NEXT Monday.

Now that's a DUMBASS! (I love That 70's Show)

Reply by Teddog/CO on 9/18/06 11:17am
Msg #146729

JB, Congrads! You did the right thing by letting them know from "the get-go" We get paid when we do our job. You should of asked them "if it's slow in their office or some bwr rescinds, then the office staff doesn't get paid?" Explain all the docs "give me a break!" if I was a lawyer, I would'nt be driving all over the countryside.

Good Job!!

Reply by Beth/MD on 9/18/06 11:30am
Msg #146733

I agree with you Jersey Boy. There is a BIG difference between pointing and explaining. I also agree with not accepting reduced fees. And why is it when you tell them you don't accept reduced fees, you're always the first one out of hundreds to state this?

Reply by LkArrowhd/CA on 9/18/06 11:32am
Msg #146736

Re: Beth perhaps many other notaries are out there doing

what they aren't supposed to be doing....

Reply by Loretta Reed on 9/18/06 11:31am
Msg #146735

Re: SS Cancellation due to me......Here's one for ya today..

Got a call on Friday to do a signing this morning. That is fine. They sent me a confirmation for $25 less than I get. I called and told them what my fee was. She said she could not pay me that amount, would I accept $? I said no. She told me that she could not get my fee approved and would contact me to see what they next step would be, she would probably have another notary contact me to pick up the docs. I told her that I would hold onto them and if she needed me to, I could overnight them to the new notary. I didn't hear from them until this morning, wondering why I never showed up at the closing.
When I explained to her why I did not go, she asked me if I would reconsider and take an additional fee (I have already made my schedule for today and could not accomodate her). She then told me that I would be taken out of the system and never would be contacted again.

I told her that that was not fair, it was not my fault and asked to speak with her manager, she told me she was the manager, gave me her name and extension and then HUNG UP ON ME.

B**CH!!!!!

Reply by Beth/MD on 9/18/06 11:35am
Msg #146741

Re: SS Cancellation due to me.....Here's one for ya--Loretta

You should have called back and hung up on her! Just to return the favor

Reply by Loretta Reed on 9/18/06 11:44am
Msg #146746

Re: SS Cancellation due to me.....Here's one for ya--Loretta

I just hope she doesn't take me out of the system for all of the title work that my company does for them. She can have the closings.

Reply by MichiganAl on 9/18/06 12:03pm
Msg #146748

Explaining the docs

I wouldn't have gotten caught up in that wording. What they may consider explaining, we consider pointing out or giving a general description of the purpose of a doc. I would have just gone in and done my signing the way I always do and it would have never been an issue.

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 9/18/06 12:17pm
Msg #146752

Re: Explaining the docs

Al,

I do agree with you as far of the wording of "explaining the docs is concerned"

HAD there not been a partial payment stip on the confirmation, I would have let that go, BUT since I had to state my non-comply with the payment policy, I brought up the "explain" thing as well.

Reply by Patrick Anthony on 9/18/06 12:25pm
Msg #146754

MY 4* Notary Service Technique.

1. NEVER WORK MORE FOR LESS.

2. ALWAYS FOLLOW THE LAW.

3. COMPLY WITH ALL REQUESTS (within the guidelines of #3).

4. MARKET, MARKET, MARKET

Reply by Glenn Strickler on 9/18/06 12:34pm
Msg #146756

Re: SS Cancellation due to my non-acceptance of terms. (LONG

Explaining the documents would vary by state. I take it to mean telling the BO what they are. If the BO wants to know what they do, then we call the LO as then I would be giving a legal opinion. If the LO did their job, there won't be many questions.

I only reduce fees if I get there and the BO refuses to sign and I don't do any more notary work. If the signing is completed and the BO exercises their RTC, I still expect full fee. The amount of work is the same. It seem that the repuitable companies don't have a problem with that. I am with you.

Reply by Brad Closing agent directory on 9/18/06 3:22pm
Msg #146802

Re: SS Cancellation due to my non-acceptance of terms. (LONG

I just wanted to toss a thought in here because I do all of the above I close , I own a Title co and I own a closing service. ( well I dont close as much anymore but I still do )
The industry as a whole will ( and I apologize if this sounds cad ) look at a closing agent diffrently than a notary. The reason being a closing agent is advertising by his/her title that they close loans. a notary is advertising by title that they verify I.D. and sign off on a signature.
The only reason I bring this up is we to have a disclosure , not asking you to act as an attorney but if the customer asks what are these fee's on this HUD you can at least go over the sections and explain them. same with the mortgage RTR and TILL for a few examples.
Asking if you are able to "explain in detail" a document is not asking you to UPL. An attorney prepaired the document , there asking can you explain it.
I have not nor ever will ask a closer to cross that line,,, I.E. back date, dont realy point this out bla bla bla. However I dont expect to get a phone call at 11:30 est do to a closer in Navada not being able to explain a 3/27 note and how it works. and the customer getting mad because of it.
I am vary appreciative of the closing / notary market out there some of you may close loans for me, but it did kinda bothers me as I read this tear that several of you felt ITS NOT MY JOB about explaining docs. That is exactly what your being hired to do. Otherwise I could send the package to the customer and tell them to find a notary get these signed and overnight them back in this envelope. You guys (and gals) are the pro's thats why we hire you..
Sorry about the spelling
Thanks all
closinagentdirectory.com

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 9/18/06 3:46pm
Msg #146805

BRAD... I TOTALLY DISAGREE.

***The industry as a whole will ( and I apologize if this sounds cad ) look at a closing agent diffrently than a notary. The reason being a closing agent is advertising by his/her title that they close loans.***

I'm pretty sure the "Closing Agent" works for the title agency, handles funds, etc.
THAT'S NOT WHAT I DO.

***a notary is advertising by title that they verify I.D. and sign off on a signature.***

BINGO... that's exactly what I do.

**The only reason I bring this up is we to have a disclosure , not asking you to act as an attorney but if the customer asks what are these fee's on this HUD you can at least go over the sections and explain them.***


Explain fees? I can and will SHOW them the fee's but I am not going to explain the fees.
Oh, Mr. & Mrs. Borrower, this origination fee here is showing that your being charged five points because you have poor credit and are just too darn stupid to realize that your loan officer is throwing you against the wall.... how's that explaination?

***Asking if you are able to "explain in detail" a document is not asking you to UPL. An attorney prepaired the document , there asking can you explain it.***

So you want me to take what an attorney wrote and "interpret" what it means into an explaination. I don't know what everyone else thinks.... but "interpreting" sound an awefull lot like UPL to me.

***However I dont expect to get a phone call at 11:30 est do to a closer in Navada not being able to explain a 3/27 note and how it works. and the customer getting mad because of it.***

This is my job? THE LOAN OFFICER (remember the guy throwing the borrowers against the wall?) HE/SHE should have explained what the loan details were.... LOOOOOONG before I even got the phone call to do the signing.

***I am vary appreciative of the closing / notary market out there some of you may close loans for me, but it did kinda bothers me as I read this tear that several of you felt ITS NOT MY JOB about explaining docs. That is exactly what your being hired to do.****

You want me to "explain"? ok, but you don't get a stamp if I'm explaining. You want me to stamp, ok but you get no explaining! I'm pretty sure I could go to the borrowers home and explain the heck out of their loan, but if I don't put that notary seal on the page... your loan isn't gonna fund! Can't wear and attorney hat and a notary hat.... UNLESS THE NOTARY IS AN ATTORNEY!

***Otherwise I could send the package to the customer and tell them to find a notary get these signed and overnight them back in this envelope. You guys (and gals) are the pro's thats why we hire you..****

Try that.... seems to work well for Wells Fargo.... and those jobs are a heck of alot easier too!



Showing a borrower their fees on a HUD is not UPL.
Showing a borrower the terms on the TIL is not UPL.
Explaining a 3/27 note and how it works.... well in my opinion... that's UPL.
Explaining is something that requires interpretation.... interpretation is UPL.


You also mentioned advertising as a signing agent. I can't speak for everyone else, but I have never once in my entire life advertised my services as a signing agent. I advertise as a Notary Public. You didn't come to SigningAgentRotary.com you came to NOTARYROTARY.com

Reply by Brad Closing agent directory on 9/18/06 4:55pm
Msg #146821

Re: BRAD... I TOTALLY DISAGREE.

"You also mentioned advertising as a signing agent. I can't speak for everyone else, but I have never once in my entire life advertised my services as a signing agent. I advertise as a Notary Public. You didn't come to SigningAgentRotary.com you came to NOTARYROTARY.com"
""EDOCS... no problem! LAST MINUTE SIGNINGS... no problem! LATE NIGHT SIGNINGS... no problem! REVERSE MORTGAGES... no problem! Base area service within 25 miles of Runnemede, NJ. This area covers all of Camden County. It also covers much of Atlantic, Burlington, Gloucester, and Salem Counties. All other areas of the State can be covered for an additional fee. Documents can be received via email, fax or overnight delivery. Your clients will be met with the dignity and respect that they deserve. Your documents will be signed, sealed and put back into your hands as quickly as possible. Office Hours: 24/7 Appointment Hours: after 6pm Mon-Fri, anytime on weekends/holidays.
WOW you use the term signing in your advertising several times but not one time do you refer to being a good notary public and will notarize those documents to the best of your ability you are so right YOU HAVE NEVER advertised as a signing agent lol and please Jersy dont sign up with me. I was being nice I was trying to help >> you on the other hand well never mind... I was thinking I could have good conversation with pro's and then I met you.

Reply by hcampersFL on 9/18/06 3:53pm
Msg #146808

Brad

I truly think you need to get a clearer understanding of what a Notary Signing Agent is.

"However I don't expect to get a phone call at 11:30 est do to a closer in Nevada not being able to explain a 3/27 note and how it works."

This statement alone tells me that you don't know what our responsibilities are. The Loan Officer needs to prepare the BR's for the terms of the loan, not the notary.

Think about it.

Beverly

PS don't advertise your business here it is against the posting rules.

Reply by Brad Closing agent directory on 9/18/06 4:31pm
Msg #146816

Re: Brad

I am with you guys all the way .. I was trying to get a vary long point as short as as I could. My example of the 3/27 ... If the customer was to ask >>>> ok so at the end of the first three years then my rate can go up by % this number is that correct..?. Would you or would you not explain that ???? Yes the laon officer has went over the loan No no one is asking you to sell the loan , however all the explaining over a phone on the web or otherwise can not change the fact that this customer is seeing 75 or so docs for the first time.
And as for the explaining and UPL well that is your belief and I wish you all the best on that , I do have several Attorney's working for me that would correct you. To explain that this is the security instrument that will be filed at the county for record and it shows on the first page how much your loan is for and your address as well as a legal discription and the length of time that you are taking the loan for Im going to need you to initial each page and then this last page we will sign, any question ? is not UPL. it is however a good brief explination of a mortgage.
WOW I even said at the begining I apologize. If you are only a notary ( and yes I see the name of the site ) thats fine I did not say anything negitive about that. What I said was from the industry stand point.. I thought I was maybe giving you A little advice / inside look at a title company / and closing service.. BUT WOW.
I see many of you looking and talking about certifications and how to advertise how many loans you have done and so on. That sounds to me like a professional closer not a notary. If you are a "notary " in Ohio for example I believe the current rate is $1.00 per document noterized and I believe you have to keep a log on each document . A closing would be worth about $15 dollars. However closers : that happen to need to be notaries: charge $125. Is there a differrence??????????
Man oh man you guys get fired up quick... I was not in anyway speeking down to or questioning anyones ability.
P.S. If Im not being clear yet please dont break this entire blog down again sentance after sentance I truely understand what I wrote the first time. and was actually trying to be helpfull.

Reply by Merry_CA on 9/18/06 4:57pm
Msg #146823

Re: Brad

I was taught in both my notary class to receive my CA commission and my loan signing certification that in CA we are not "closers" we are notaries public who have been trained to identify and notarize, where appropriate, the various documents in a loan package. The "closing agent" is someone else entirely.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 9/18/06 8:39pm
Msg #146860

"Closing Agent" versus "Notary Signing Agent"

We are, for the most part, Notary Signing Agents (NSAs) here. We are NOT Closing Agents.

Yes, it is possible for a Closing Agent to be present at the signing table and notarize the appropriate documents. No, it is not likely.

NSAs don't hold funds in escrow, arrange for appraisals and title searches, and dispurse funds. We receive documents, (print documents which have been received electronically), confirm appointments, take documents to signings, notarize signatures, give documents to borrowers, and return documents to firms as requested. The wisest of us guarentee out work. By the most strict definition of the word, we are professionals.

Reply by Brad Closing agent directory on 9/19/06 11:31am
Msg #146935

Re: "Closing Agent" versus "Notary Signing Agent"

I just can not get over this "my title is " thing. If any one would read my first post for what it is you would see that I am on the otherside of the industry <<<I AM A TITLE COMPANY><< I AM A CLOSING COMPANY>> when we schedule a closing regaurdless of calling an NSA or a closing agent or a attorney we the title company call everyone closers....
What you are considering a closing agent is called an escrow officer, escrow prep's HUD's and cuts checks. the LO orders appraisals not us, Title clearing gets payoffs and does the lien search and the person who closes the loan for us is called a closer or closing agent. Its realy that simple folks. I understand that if you spend your money on a certification that they teach you ,you are not a closing agent you are a Notary signing agent ." I hire you I know what my industry calls you !!! and I'm telling you when I call for a closing or A title company calls me for a closer in the diffrent states that we refrence you as a closing agent or closer not a NSA.
I can not make this any more clear ,I came to this site and got signed up to help you guys get more business... I am not advertising I am not asking any of you to educate me. and I not asking any of you to sign up with me. I have closers all over the U.S. I spend my time and money on Banks , Title companies and processing departments to get more closings on the books. I am certified in 17 states to teach ( and get paid to do it ) what I have came to this site to give for free.
My companies close as many loans a day as most of you have on your resume' as total loans closed.. I came here to give you guys/gals insight on the industry and all I get is grief.
the number 3 or sometimes 4th rule is to market market market. I am the damned market . Do you call your number one title company and correct them. GOOD GRIEF

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/18/06 5:36pm
Msg #146831

Hey Brad, what's with the Closing Agent Directory appendage

to your acreen name??

Reply by Brad_CA on 9/18/06 6:08pm
Msg #146836

Re: Hey Brad, what's with the Closing Agent Directory appendage

Just too let everyone know, that Brad Directory Guy is not me. He should find another handle.

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/18/06 6:45pm
Msg #146840

All this time I thought CA meant California :P n/m

Reply by Charles_Ca on 9/18/06 7:26pm
Msg #146846

I suspect Brad that it was fully intentional and he was

counting on the smoke screen to make blatant commercial posts. I was just curious as to what was going on and I didn't want to go off half cocked! Thanks for replying.

Reply by Brad_CA on 9/18/06 7:32pm
Msg #146848

Re: I suspect Brad that it was fully intentional and he was

Exactly Charles. At least he is in Ohio and I am here in California.

Reply by Brad Closing agent directory on 9/19/06 9:50am
Msg #146919

Re: I suspect Brad that it was fully intentional and he was

I did not join to " advertise" I did not join to be attacked either. I am certified in 17 states to speak at ClE CIE Credit courses by each states Department of Insurance. I came to this site to help people understand My side of the industry ( which you guys work for ) so that maybe it would help you get more business.. We close 150 to 300 deals a day. I DO NOT advertise for closing agents I hire and pay them.
We do Title in all 50 States , we DO CLOSINGS in all 50 states. I advertise to lenders , Bankers, and other title companies. What did I say to anyone that was so unbelievable attacking that I deserved to be treated this way. I opened up as to the INDUSTRY, and right off the bat I get par-phrased to death. I am sorry if there are that many people that have this business down to a science and do not need any help.
Thanks Harry this is one great site you've got here this was fun.
Brad_ca there was no intent to take your handle I to thought ca ment Cali. Charles I e-mailed you on what I was doing. Jersy boy have a great life , You should be a CEO of a closing company cause you know it all.
Cassie to answer your question the document you recieved is for Non owner occs , In several states such as Mich and Florida the spousal rights are diffrent on second homes and Non Owner occs, the owner by deed can refi without the spouses intrest or dower.
Thanks folks
Good Luck

Reply by D_Arias/FL on 9/19/06 12:25pm
Msg #146949

To Brad Closing Agent Directory (long name lol)

Just a question ... you referenced your website : closinagentdirectory.com but it is a non working URL .. explanation?

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 9/19/06 1:08pm
Msg #146970

D_Arias/FL.....

The reason that the url is not working is because Mr. Brad can't even spell his website (lol)
It you look at the url and spell the same thing out correctly, you'll get the site.

I won't repost it as it would only feed his 'google-a-bility'

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/19/06 12:44pm
Msg #146953

The "New" Brad is not that dense...

The "New" Brad is not that dense, just continuing to post/argue to advertise the new spin on paying to work. "For $75 you will get..."

Yeah, well...I would never pay anyone $75 who cannot spell "cannot" correctly, or capitalize properly...but that's just me.

Reply by Jersey_Boy on 9/19/06 12:46pm
Msg #146956

Hi Five Brenda!! n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/19/06 12:55pm
Msg #146962

A bit of "Mea Culpa"...

Hey JBoy...As you know, I said,

"For $75 you will get..."


In reality, this directory is about $75 closings. A signing service dressed up like a...well, I don't know what.

I read too quickly, and misquoted the $75 statement above, but the guy still needs assistance with really hard words like, "sentence." It's not "sentance." (Hint: Don't buy into it until he learns to use the spell-checker.)

It's a signing service (or TC SS arm) trying to pull it off like their are something else...see 'em wearing their title company brand skirt and blouse?

However, I can still see the $75 hat, gloves and matching bag with the SS tag flapping in the breeze...can't you?

Okay, New Brad...so don't hire me. I am a bad notary. Bad, bad, bad. I stick my nose in where it does not belong, and recognize the scent of pure unadulterated BS. <smile> But, that's just me. </smile>