Posted by Paul2_FL on 9/16/06 8:06am
Msg #146503

Title Guru question.

I had a signing the other night where the borrowers on the documents were John & Jane Smith. The ID's presented were John Smith and Jane Doe. Jane Doe does not have any identification showing she is Jane Smith - nothing, nada. She said she couldn't change her name because it would affect her SS and Medicaid benefits. There's a lot more to the story but needless to say the signing wasn't conducted. My question for you Title Guru's out there is this:
How is it possible for a person's name (Jane Smith in this case) to be on Title if the person has no identification showing she is that person?

Reply by PAW on 9/16/06 8:15am
Msg #146507

When property ownership is transferred (Warranty Deed, Grant Deed, etc.), only the grantor (the current owner) needs to sign the deed. Therefore, the grantee (the buyer) name can be wrong as it is often not verified by the title company, lender, seller or closing agent.

I will assume in this case, that the couple is in fact married (Mr/Mrs Smith) and bought the property as a married couple. Therefore, the seller assumed that the vesting should be in their married names.

Fortunately for us (in FL), the state allows us to use the "who represented to me" form of certificates to allow for name inconsistencies. Of course, the notary should validated the use of the non-ID'd name with supporting documentation, even though that documentation may not be "acceptable" as defined in the Florida statutes.

If you have any questions or need clarification on this, give me a call (see profile).

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 9/16/06 8:24am
Msg #146510

Excellent reply, PAW... you ARE a guru!! n/m

Reply by Lisa Prestegard on 9/16/06 8:23am
Msg #146509

Here's a story about how that could happen: (this happened in Naples, FL about 8 years ago)
Husband John Doe comes into the Title Company I work for to conduct his refinance closing on his $1.2 million dollar Gulf Coast condo. He's taking 70% cash out of the paid-off second home. On his arm is the beautiful Mrs. Doe. During the ID process, Mr. Doe explains that Mrs. Doe's pocketbook had been stolen from the back of her chair at a local bistro a few nights earlier and consequently, Mrs. Doe had lost her Drivers License and all other ID. Not to fear! Mr. Doe had brought in their marriage license AND Mrs. Doe's Sam's Club card, which had her photo on it! Whew! Closer saved the deal and closed the loan. Loan funds in a few days, Mr. Doe comes in to pick up his HUGE check. Everyone is happy
Now... for the REST of the story:
Several weeks later, a lovely woman comes in to the Title Company with a couple of detectives and a deputy. She produces ID showing that she is Mrs. John Doe and she demands to know why a Mortgage has been recorded in her name on her Gulf-front condo! (The Title Company sent out a post-closing letter, informing the Borrower that she'll receive her loan payment booklet in 2-3 weeks from her lender, thanks for the busines, yada yada yada)
It seems that while Mrs. Doe was in Paris and Milan for fashion week, or something similar, her low-life hubby and his arm-charm decided to implement the above scheme, and got away with it. Title Insurance underwriter NOT happy, Closer fired. No word on whether or not Mr. Doe and his hottie were ever found.
Not saying that this situation applies to your situation, Paul. You did the right thing. No ID, no Notarization. Most likely, the previous closing was handled by someone lacking basic Notary skills. Bear in mind: Florida has more fraudulent mortgages than any other state

Reply by PAW on 9/16/06 11:29am
Msg #146524

Problem with this is ...

>>> Mr. Doe had brought in their marriage license AND Mrs. Doe's Sam's Club card, which had her photo on it! Whew! Closer saved the deal and closed the loan. <<<

The title company did NOT perform proper ID verification of the "owner" of the property. Marriage certificates and Sam's club membership cards are NOT acceptable ID. A signer, even when using the "representative" form, must provide an acceptable form of ID is some name and the link to another name must be supported by a preponderance of evidence of the other name being used.

In Paul's case, the owner did in fact have proper ID acceptable by FL statutes, but not the in the name as shown on the documents. By using various and common supporting documentation, the notary public can "satisfactorily" identify the signer. Additionally, the use of the "representative" form of the notarial certificates, squarely places the burden of proof of the representation on the signer.

Reply by Becca_FL on 9/16/06 8:54am
Msg #146512

What Paul has explained can be found on page 61 of the Florida Manual. The situation and procedure is explained very well in the manual.

Reply by Paul2_FL on 9/16/06 9:18am
Msg #146514

Becca,

Page 61 first paragraph - last sentence; "You should direct them to the local Division of Motor Vehicles office to make the necessary changes". Did that.

Second paragraph - first sentence; "In some instances, individuals may need to sign a document with their former name AFER MAKING THE NECESSARY UPDATES TO THEIR IDENTIFICATIONS CARDS" (not shouting just there for emphasis).

Reply by Paul2_FL on 9/16/06 10:03am
Msg #146519

Thanks all - good feedback! n/m

Reply by Teresa/FL on 9/16/06 4:23pm
Msg #146542

Paragraph 2 further states "A classic situation arises when a woman changes her name after marriage and has to sign a document, such as a warranty deed, in her former name. You may notarize her signature if she signs both names, but you may want to indicate that fact in your notarial certificate."

I had a situation 2 weeks ago where the loan documents for a purchase were prepared with the wife's new married name although she had not yet changed her ID. When I informed the TC and lender (who was also the employer of the husband) that she would need to sign BOTH names on the documents, they could not understand why this was an issue. I ended up declining the assignment and they found another notary who was willing to do it their way.