Posted by JanetK_CA on 9/8/06 11:58pm
Msg #144658

Two legal cases involving notaries - importance of a journal

I had a siging earlier this week for a paralegal and one tonight for an attorney, and each had a story about a case involving a notary and their journal... but with (probably) very different outcomes. (One isn't over yet.)

The first one is a situation where a husband and wife were both vested owners on a property with a Note in both names. The husband died two years after the deed was recorded. The wife claims she never signed the loan docs and that her signature was forged, so she isn't responsible for payments. (This is the case currently pending.) Sounds like a slam dunk, right? Wrong! The notary can't find the journal to prove she DID sign the docs, so a claim is being filed against the notary's E&O insurance.

The other case I heard about tonight is over and is kind of the opposite circumstances. In this situation, I'm told, a man had a girlfriend pose as his wife to sign the loan docs. (She may have used a fake ID.) However, this time the notary was able to produce the journal with the girlfriend's thumbprint. The authorities identified her from her thumbprint and she was held accountable. Case closed.

This is why documents get notarized to begin with and what being a notary is all about!! And of course, a great example of why it's such a good idea to maintain a journal (and keep them secure) whether or not it's a state requirement! Funny I should hear about these within a couple of days of each other - so just thought I'd share...

Reply by BrendaTx on 9/9/06 12:05am
Msg #144659

Very interesting and thought-worthy, Janet. Thanks.

Reply by Paul_IL on 9/9/06 12:09am
Msg #144661

Nice stories but the first one would be easily solved with a handwritting anaylsis making the notaries journal not an issue.

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/9/06 12:18am
Msg #144662

not quite...

In CA there has to be a thumbprint in the journal, which would be more conclusive than handwriting analysis...AND that journal had to be stored under lock and key till the notary quit working and turned it into the county recorder.

They MAY be able to solve the case without the journal, but however the case goes, the notary's toast.

Reply by kathy/ca on 9/9/06 12:41am
Msg #144666

Gary, why do you say the notary is toast, because she cant

find her journal? Maybe the state she is in doesnt require one. Any other reason I am not thinking of making her toast?

Reply by Ndwa on 9/9/06 12:54am
Msg #144667

Re: Gary, why do you say the notary is toast, because she ca

WA does not require a journal, but highly recommended that notaries keep one or some sort of record. It's just plain cya.

Reply by John_NorCal on 9/9/06 1:38am
Msg #144671

Re: Gary, why do you say the notary is toast, because she cant

Janet's post leads me to believe the notary is from CA as is Janet. In that case the notary is supposed to retain possesion of her journal as Gary has stated.

Reply by Gary_CA on 9/9/06 1:55am
Msg #144672

Yes, I'm assuming she's from CA, since Janet is. n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/9/06 5:06pm
Msg #144810

My assupmtion, as well.

Naturally, neither of these people disclosed any particulars to me and I certainly didn't ask.

Reply by Paul_IL on 9/9/06 7:09pm
Msg #144838

Re: not quite...

That all depends on the circumstances. Something could have happened to the journal..fire, water damage etc... you do not know. Yes it would have been simplier if the journal could be located but the handwriting analysis will still prove the case.

The notary is far from toast if there is a good reason for why the journal is missing.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 9/9/06 8:21pm
Msg #144862

Re: not quite...

As I stated in the original post, the paralegal said the notary "can't find" the journal. If there was a good reason, I think I would have gotten an entirely different vibe. Sounded like notary negligence to me - and Gary is right. In CA, the notary is responsible for maintaining the security of all their journals and turning them in to the County Recorder when they quit.

Reply by PJM/MI on 9/9/06 5:56am
Msg #144673

Re: Two legal cases involving notaries - importance of a jou

Even thoughI am not a Journal state, I have always kept one, and I tell t hose I have mentored to keep one. I have had two instances where my journal has been able to answer questions I could not.
I received a call from a title co in CA wanting to know if I had signed a QCD TWO years ago. Of course, my memory isn't as sharp as it used to be, so I pulled out my journal, and nope.. the guy never signed. (A family member forged not only his name, but mine, too! No stamp or seal on the doc).
It is also a good idea to keep one for tracking info, as I frequently get calls to know the tracking # for a closing done a day or so ago. I By putting the tracking# in my journal, all I have to do is pull over & give it to them. (Before I get blasted for this... YES.. I send the tracking info on my invoices to my customers.. doesn't mean they read them).
Even if you aren't in a journal state, it is an excellent idea to keep one anyway. JMHO

Reply by Diga2Lin/FL on 9/9/06 9:13am
Msg #144690

Re: Two legal cases involving notaries - importance of a jou

Surprised the QCD was accepted for recording without your stamp or seal..

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 9/9/06 11:14am
Msg #144712

Re: Two legal cases involving notaries - importance of a jou

Linda
Unless they have changed the law, Michigan does not require a seal or embosser. Just the notary's signature.

Reply by Diga2Lin/FL on 9/9/06 12:23pm
Msg #144731

Re: Two legal cases involving notaries - importance of a jou

Ah..okay..sorry..I stand corrected..<G>

Reply by Tina_MA on 9/9/06 11:10am
Msg #144709

I used to do quite a bit of notarizations at a place I called the "equity thieves" (companies that charge outrageous amounts to rescue folks from foreclosure, on average $30-80K).

The majority of the people signing would be very upset, many crying. I always made absolutely sure that I was in a room alone with the signers and for each document, asked if they were signing of their own free act and deed (all docs had acknowledgments on them).

Anyway, many of the signers would dispute the "trust" in court and I would have to produce the journal page and sign an affidavit that the signers did sign and did so of their own free act an deed.

There were also a couple of cases where the "equity thieves" attorney lost the QD before it could be recorded. Of course the signers would refuse to sign another QD, so the "equity thieves" would have to go to court to compel the signers to sign another one. In each case I was summoned to bring my journal and sign an affidavit.

MA did not require journals until a couple of years ago. Thank goodness I always kept a journal from day one. I can't remember what I had for breakfast, never mind what I did days, months, or a year ago.