Posted by Ndwa on 10/22/07 10:51pm
Msg #217754

Borrower offered me a job

I did a signing over the weekend where borrower who own a general contractor business. During and after the signing we talked about my past and on going home improvement projects. I basically told him all I've done on the house from sprinklers to tile, laminate, and hardwood, etc. He said his interest in me talking was somewhat of an interview. Not so much the skill, but the fact that he liked my taste and I have a good eye for things of that nature...WOW!

He has a few hundred contractors working for him and I would be one of the site managers. I turned down another job last week as things started to pickup and I'm giving this new venture lots of thought.

I wanted to ask everyone's opinion on the ethic scale in comparison to soliciting other products/services while at signing.

Reply by CJ on 10/22/07 11:00pm
Msg #217756

I think if he offered you the job, you were not doing the soliciting. But I would be wary of someone who solicites me at work. If the job was really good, why doen't he have an ad in the paper and is already interviewing candidates? If you were such a good contractor, why aren't you in the business already? This is not a slam on you, but from his point of view, I would not be in a big hurry to hire a notary for a site manager if I was really professional. Something smells fishy to me. Why can't he find someone capable among his 500 contractors who already is familiar with his business. For me, I think he is up to something.

On the other hand, if you are not working that much, you could check it out. Try to talk to some of his employees first and see what they think of him.

A long time ago, my ex was offered jobs by two air conditioning companies. He was going to take job A, but job B said, "Go to the AC supply stores, and ask whose employees are happier". So he did that, and found out that A's employees had a big turnover. B's employees stayed a long time and bought houses. So he went with B and worked for them for 2 decades. We are divorced now, so I don't know if he is still working for them.

Reply by CJ on 10/22/07 11:02pm
Msg #217758

Another suspicous thing:

"Good taste" is not want a site manager needs. Hmmm.

I do believe you have good taste and good skills, I am just wary of this guy.

JMHO.

Reply by pjc on 10/22/07 11:05pm
Msg #217759

Re: miss you

Andy, I always read your posts as you are smart, experienced, and generous with your skills. We will miss you if you leave - Patti

Reply by MelissaCT on 10/23/07 7:55am
Msg #217778

Re: Ad in the paper

I know quite a few that don't put an ad in the paper to hire. Especially in the construction industry. If you're looking for laborers, maybe, but when you need people you can trust to run a job, it's better hand-picked. This, of course, is strictly my opinion.

Reply by Dawn/PA on 10/23/07 8:29am
Msg #217786

Re: Ad in the paper

My husband is a partner in a construction business and they only run ads for plumber helpers & apprentices. I had to fill in in his office this past spring and finally demanded to him & his partners that they run an ad for the admin work I was doing - we got 5 resumes of descent quality. The girl that they hired they had to fire. They found her replacement by word of mouth. When looking for management construction companies search thru their contacts and word of mouth. JMHO.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/22/07 11:01pm
Msg #217757

Andy, that's a no-brainer, take the damn job! If the money's

and the benefits are good for you.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/22/07 11:17pm
Msg #217761

Have to agree with Charles provided...

the money is right and it's a good fit for you. This notary biz is tanking faster than the Titanic. Besides--you'll always land on your feet no matter what.

Reply by jba/fl on 10/22/07 11:19pm
Msg #217762

Re: Andy, that's a no-brainer, take the damn job! If the money's

Investigate, and if it looks good, trial basis start is one way to go. If your business is slow, what do you really have to lose? I find no ethical conflict - he started the conversation, you just continued, and from what I can glean about you, it was after the signing was completed, therefore, on your time.

Good luck - I hope that we all can network thusly and find something valuable in the process.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 10/23/07 12:33am
Msg #217770

Absolutely. No ethical conflict. Period.

They can't regulate against networking. Not on our level.

We're all entrepreners, all Self Employed. We Notary Signing Agents all came from somewhere, and we find nitches and fill them.

The world is changing fast - minute by minute. There are very few valid 'non-compete' clauses anymore.

It's everybody for themselves, and, hopefully, everyone for each other too. Flexibility works. Networking is primal connectivity for general productivity. Who would want to quash productivity in our iffy economy?

Southern California's on fire. How much of this business is based in Southern California? Changing minute by minute, it is. Geez.

And the thread about Instructions (hidden and otherwise) and the quintessential 'Wish List' were so spot on...and, truthfully, stating the obvious. Will 'they' listen?

I say, when opportunity knocks, answer the door! It's a survival thing.

Reply by Becca_FL on 10/23/07 12:26am
Msg #217767

Andy, my friend, he solicited you. Explore the opportunities that are afforded. I know I would.

Reply by CJ on 10/23/07 12:56am
Msg #217772

Okay, you win. :) Good luck and God Bless! :) n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/23/07 3:07am
Msg #217775

That's called the hidden job market, where most hiring takes place, especially for privately owned companies. It's all about who you know. Best of luck!

Reply by OR on 10/23/07 8:00am
Msg #217780

Re: Borrower offered me a job/way to go Andy/good luck n/m

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/23/07 8:01am
Msg #217781

Excuse me here but

I posted a similiar scenario and here is Andy saying in his own words that during? and after the signing he was discussing his past and ongoing remodeling projects. According to one poster, if he is a professional loan signer he would not be discussing himself especially on title co. time. And here he is on title co. time obviously not within 5 minutes talking about another job. My situation is the same as borrowers pursue me for the work, not me pursuing them as I am a full time agent. I've had so many requests that it was leading me to ask the question. So is what is good for Andy not good for another?

Reply by OR on 10/23/07 8:26am
Msg #217784

Re: Excuse me here but/I read your post and I dont think

it is not conflict of interest for either of you. Both of you are talking about different fields of work than Loans. Yes some of the posters did say that you (snoopdogMs) were out of line, and what Andy was doing waswasn't. I hate when that happens too. Some times that kind of stuff just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. You just have to shake if off and have and try to have great day.

Reply by John_NorCal on 10/23/07 9:17am
Msg #217795

Re: Excuse me here but/I read your post and I dont think

Reading Andy's post I get the feelilng that he was just shooting the breeze as some of us do. Sounds like the borrower was doing the soliciting. I don't see any conflict.
Not having read snoopdogMS posts, if he/she was actively promoting other endeavors, then yes it would be a conflict of interest in my opinion. As for being on the tc's time, what's that all about snoop? We're on our own time as independent contractors.
-

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/23/07 9:23am
Msg #217796

Re: Excuse me here but/I read your post and I dont think

Since you didn't read my post it was posted on 10/18/07 at 8:15 under the subject Independent Contractor.

Reply by Ndwa on 10/23/07 12:16pm
Msg #217830

Re: Excuse me here but/I read your post and I dont think

Just read your post and I think there is a big different between that than what I posted here. You have an established business where you could potentially profit from with a little promoting to each and every home you entered to do signings. For me this offer was just coincidental and unexpected.

This borrower and I shared some common interests as far as how we run our business. We talked, I gave him (tech) tips for his projects and in return he gave me tips for my projects. This man run his business the same way I (many of us) do through networking, sharing, and especially respect for the profession we're in.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/23/07 12:56pm
Msg #217839

You're right Andy its not the same, not nearly! n/m

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/23/07 4:31pm
Msg #217876

Re: Excuse me here but/I read your post and I dont think

Also, there's a difference between being offered a "job", as in employment, vs. contractor work in a different area. However, I feel that if they brought it up, and you were just making small talk rather than trying to promote yourself, once the signing is over, you can chat about whatever you want. The critical thing is to be sensitive about the borrower not ever feeling uncomfortable like you are trying to impose something on them. If they are genuinely interested in getting information from you vs. just being polite and asking questions, then I think there are some circumstances where it would be OK to see if they wanted to arrange another time to discuss whatever the subject is more fully. Probably best to separate the two if the discussion gets too detailed. You could arrange another meeting, CJ, where you aren't wearing your NSA hat. If they are open to that, then I'd feel it's OK to discuss whatever you want. But I'd be real careful about this. If not handled just right, it could backfire on you.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/23/07 11:45am
Msg #217825

Re: Excuse me here but

"My situation is the same as borrowers pursue me for the work, not me pursuing them as I am a full time agent."

I just read your other post and it's not the same. You asked about promoting your other business, as though you were going to give a little sales pitch at the end of your signings or something. That sounds like you pursuing them to me.

That's completely different than Andy's situation where it sounds like it just happened to come up in conversation because the guy signing was in the business. Andy wasn't trying to get any business out of the guy, you would be trying to get business out of the people you solicit.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/23/07 2:13pm
Msg #217855

Re: Excuse me here but

Just as Andy, these borrowers have pressed me for future business without my promoting myself. Maybe the term promote was not a well placed term. I said promote or discuss because the borrowers want to talk to me before I leave. They want to discuss. There is no sales pitch. I have made no sales pitches during the closing. The revelation may be just as simple a question as what did I do before I became an agent. It is their idea asking if I would be interested in some side work. If you had as many people ask as I have, you might have asked the same question as I did. I'm not trying trying to solicit any business. I am trying to rightfully determine what to do with business that is falling in my lap without conflict of interest if I was to need the income. Without benefit of any spoken future business, I give them expert advice. For a lot of these women, it might save them from being scalped by ruthless contractors.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/23/07 4:04pm
Msg #217871

Quit being a notary and become a contractor

if you are doing so well with women you should go full time in the construction business it pays many times better than notary work. It just appears that you are searching for justification in using your notary business to gain entry into people's homes so that you can solicit their construction business and that is unethical. It may sound harsh but you really should consider what it is that you are actually doing. I think that you are protesting too much and must understand that what you are doing is wrong, you appear to want someone to ratify your actions. I know Andy and I know that Andy has not been soliciting this kind of work, this was a bolt out of the blue. You, on the other hand by your own admission have been soliciting. Why don't you try and get construction business the way everyone else does, you may be surprised. You have an excellent hook with the women's angle and there is a hell of a lot more money to be made in construction than in the notary business.

Reply by Ronnie_WA on 10/23/07 2:59pm
Msg #217860

No conflict here. If his track record is good at the DOL & BBB, I wouldn't pass it up in this market if the money is good. It doesn't look like things will turn around any time soon, and you can always keep your hand in on the side.