Posted by Dave_CA on 10/4/07 10:08am
Msg #214697

Borrower's signature question

My business partner just took the mandatory class to renew her commission.
One of the things the instructor really stressed was how they sign.
What he said was.

The signature on the docs must match exactly the signature that he enters in the journal. The signature on the I.D. must RESEMBLE the other signatures so that you are satisfied that it could hold up in court. You must be able to identify the last name (at least) as the same signature on the docs and journal. So he will sign the docs the way the lender instructs and sign the journal the same way. So that means he doesn't sign the journal the way he has signed his I.D. if there is a difference.

This is not exactly what I've been doing. I have the borrower sign my journal with their "normal" signature which I can then compare to their ID.
If there is a match and there is enough information in the ID, more not less, I instruct them to sign the docs as the lender requests.

It seems to me that having them sign my journal as the lender requests the docs to be signed makes it more difficult to match the ID. I already have a picture, description and age from the ID so I can be reasonably certain I have the right person and then seeing them sign with the signature on the ID seems more reliable.
All this assumes a legible signature. If it's not I just ask them to confirm that the scrawl says what the lender requires.

This instructor claims 20 years as a notary and does loan signings. He also says he is qualified as an expert witness.

Thought or opinions please.

Reply by Linda Spanski on 10/4/07 10:32am
Msg #214703

"I just ask them to confirm that the scrawl says what the lender requires."

This is exactly how I do it too, Dave. Before I gained much experience, I witnessed a HELOC signing where the borrowers had a first mortgage with the same bank. I instructed them to sign exactly as their names were printed, even though I'd identified them with IDs that had illegible signatures. A few days later I got a call informing me that the signatures on the HELOC didn't match the ones on the mortgage and that I'd need to get it resigned (at no fee, of course) with the borrowers normal signatures.

I've never had the illegible scrawls come back to bite me.

Reply by CJ/OR on 10/4/07 10:37am
Msg #214705

Ok, then what do we do about the signature affidavit --- where all iterations of a persons name and corresponding signature are included? Do they need to sign the Journal with all of their signatures? ... we had one borrower with six variations of his name AND six different signatures. Perhaps the signature affidavit renders the need for identical signatures in the Journal?

Reply by Phillip/TX on 10/4/07 10:45am
Msg #214706

The notary log/journal should be signed by the borrower in their normal signature, to match the ID that they are presenting you as verification that they are who they say they are. The documents are to be signed as drawn even if that is not their normal signature.

I for one do not use my full name, but all my loan docs were including my full name, I had to sign them that way, but when I signed the notary journal I signed using my normal signature, that matches my drivers license.

The instructor is the one that needs a refresher course!!!

Reply by dickb/wi on 10/4/07 1:31pm
Msg #214775

what if your sig was by "mark"........

such as "X"........i have them sign their normal sig.....does that say what the print says...yes...ok thank you.....no one in the world can read my sig, including me but every one can recognize my sig and it matches my id.....that is sufficiant enough in a court of law....i have never had to re do a doc because sig was not readable or the same as printing...jmho

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/4/07 10:51am
Msg #214708

Dave
I make sure the signature matches the signature on the ID. That is the signature they put in my journal.
If the docs don't include the middle initial, then I don't have the sign with the middle initial - but the signature would match the way the first name and last name are signed on the ID.

I did have one borrower, her signature looked like Arabic symbols. That is the way she signed the journal and that is the way she signed the docs - it was her legal signature. I found that this is the way she as signed everything, including legal docs, for over 20 years, and translated it was not her actual name, I forget what the meaning of the symbols were.
But it was acceptable as this was her legal signature.

When my husband signs anything, it looks like it is just his initials and a scrawled last name. But it is the way he has always signed.

Reply by Dave_CA on 10/4/07 11:09am
Msg #214718

Sylvia. Your husband's sig sounds just like mine. First 2 initials and last name.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/4/07 11:14am
Msg #214721

It only looks like his first two initials. He is actually signing his full first name.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/4/07 6:38pm
Msg #214866

Why is a class to become a notary

Talking about lenders in the first place? That would be appropriate for a loan signing class, but not for a notary commission class.

And why did your partner waste her time sitting through a 6 hour class when she could have just done it at home in a fraction of the time?

Reply by Dave_CA on 10/4/07 7:58pm
Msg #214885

Re: Why is a class to become a notary

Cali, The instructor did not teach this as a loan signing class but he did stress how someone was to sign the journal and document.
My painter asked for clarification at the break and put it as a loan signing example as that is most of what we do.
As to why she took the class rather than doing it on-line, I asked and she had the time, don't we all..., and decided that it would be good for here to go and be able to ask a few questions.
Her time, Her money.