Posted by snoopdogMs on 10/18/07 8:15pm
Msg #217221

Independent Contractor

As a independent contractor is there a problem promoting or discussing my other occupation after the closing has occurred? Many of the single women borrowers love it that I am also a solo remodeling company. This information is discovered as they ask me questions during the closing. I wait until we are finished to discuss any projects they are interested in even though I am currently not engaging in construction. Could this be a conflict of interest if the contact with the borrower led to later remodeling jobs?

Reply by MichiganAl on 10/18/07 8:58pm
Msg #217224

I think it's inappropriate

First of all, I'd think about the people that hired me. Would they want me discussing other business ventures at their borrower's home? Even if you wait until after the closing, to me it's their time and their appointment until I drive away. Second, the borrower signed up for a mortgage closing, nothing more. Discussing any other business venture possibly puts them in an uncomfortable, awkward situation. They may feel like they have to be polite, have to act like they're interested, but maybe they're really not. I had a signing today where the borrower was giving me Jehovah's Witness brochures. I'm sure she thought I was somehow interested in that but I absolutely wasn't. I know if it were my closing, I wouldn't want someone trying to sell me Mary Kay products or anything else. Third, there's something wrong to me about doing a loan signing, seeing the borrower's private info, including how much cash out they're getting on their HUD, and then hitting them up for remodeling work. That just has a feeling of something improper. It may not be illegal, but I'd bet that something like that could sure come back to haunt you. Maybe someone accuses you of overcharging them because you knew how much cash out they were getting. I don't know, but I won't touch it.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/18/07 9:07pm
Msg #217226

Re: I think it's inappropriate

I agree with you Al.

I never discussed my sideline with the borrowers. On the flip side though one of the borrowers I signed had a business and we hired him to do work on our house

Reply by JK/TX on 10/18/07 9:15pm
Msg #217228

Re: Good point MichiganAl

you might do better finding your on leads.

Reply by JK/TX on 10/18/07 9:00pm
Msg #217225

I don't think it's a problem but one thing comes to mind..... suppose the owner hires you, then the owner has some problem with you or your work and in turn reports you to the company that hired you to do the notary work, just to let them know they should not trust you to do anymore work for them because you blah, blah, blah. Chances of that happening may be slim to none, but just a thought.................... vengeance is sweet?

On the flip side, we (tried) to hire a man I signed up to treat our lawn. He was starting a lawnscape business, so I thought why not? We were not pleased w/the company that was presently treating the lawn.......... but the man did not keep his appt. with us and we never heard from him.... oh well, we tried..... maybe his no show was a blessing.

Reply by CF on 10/19/07 8:11am
Msg #217259

It is a fine line. I have a sideline too....and very rarely do I solicit it. And if I do....you should be able to tell immediatley if they are interested or not! And if you cant tell.....then do not push it! I have to say that the our economy was built on referral marketing and word of mouth jobs. This is the way that America was buildt....why are people so crazy about people selling things to them? That is how all people earn livings...including us...A LO sold a loan, the TC makes money, and we make money too! Just simple econ-

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/19/07 8:37am
Msg #217266

"why are people so crazy about people selling things to them"

I don't want someone coming to my home to sell me things. And I don't go to borrowers homes to sell them anything either.
I have a sideline, I built my sideline business up before I started doing loan signings.
But I didn't go to peoples homes to solicit business.
I had friends who knew what I was doing and they loved the product and wanted to buy. I never solicited them to buy (that is a good way to lose friends), some of them had friends who got in touch with me for the product.

Reply by CF on 10/19/07 8:41am
Msg #217267

I agree with that. That is why I said it is a fine line...and you should be able to read the person. If they are interested or not- right away. If you have to "push" then you are doing wrong! That really is the key to being succesful in this business or other contracting opportunities. Dont waste your time and energy on things that will not be profitiable!

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/19/07 9:29am
Msg #217274

" If they are interested or not- right away."

I wouldn't even be bringing it up at a signing, so I wouldn't know if they would be interested or not.

Reply by CJ on 10/19/07 9:38am
Msg #217276

Someone talked me into selling Living Trusts. It seemed like a good idea: I was at the borrowers house, I could see they didn't have a trust, after selling the trust, I would bring it back to notarize. But after about a week of taking on this extra job, I realized: I was "recommending" that they needed one (giving legal advice) and if ONE person complained, I would be in such huge trouble, and probably blacklisted.

If I hired someone to so a job for me, and I found out they were spending their time selling their business, I woudl be furious, because it is hurting MY relationship with the client. I would let everyone else in the business know. So after realizing that, I just dropped it.

On the oher hand, I am a notary, and an inspector. I am not soliciting business, but I have both professions on my business card. I leave my cards if someone asks, and sometimes at an inspection, they say, "Oh, are you a traveling notary?" I say yes, but I do not promote myself. I don't point it out when I give my card. I pretend my inspector boss is right there, and I chose my words carefully. If they want to call me later, that will have to be completely up to them.

Reply by Rose/CA on 10/19/07 10:38am
Msg #217286

Sometimes it is difficult to keep your other interests out of a simple conversation and it may innocently come out that a signing agent does other things besides notarizing, etc. and it is probably important to build some level of trust and confidence in the signing itself. However, I try to keep away from soliciting business outside of the signing I am being paid for. One never knows what connections occur in a community and how it might affect you - good or bad. I did a signing one evening and the next morning after dropping off the fed-ex package I also drove load of trash to the county dump (I live in the country and do it all!) only to be met by the guy I had just signed the night before- he was moonlighting a second job at the county dump! His second job was not noted on the app as I recall and he was a little nervous (shocked?) at seeing me. Naturally, I assured him that his fed ex package was already sent and wasn't included in the trash! I don't know which of us was more surprised to meet the other! My point is that we live in a complex society and you just never know how we might meet again- intentionally or not.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/19/07 11:05am
Msg #217297

These are all excellent replies. It is the borrower that won't drop the subject once they know that I can remodel or build houses. Most likely it is the novelty of a woman being in the construction field. I have never walked in and announced my other occupation. When I have completed the loan they are the ones to benefit if I have time to stay and give them a free 30 or 45 minute consultation without benefit of a future job. I do this especially for widow or single women as they generally get taken by a lot of contractors. I would think that technically that I could take my loan papers out to the car, take my jacket off and go back inside representing myself on my time if I was interested in taking on their projects. It is them, not me, pursuing the work but it is certainly tempting to have the jobs if I want them.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/19/07 12:05pm
Msg #217313

aren't you the same person

that wanted to type up a synopsis of the loan docs for your borrowers because you thought they were too stupid to know what was going on once you walk out the door?

Please develop your construction business and get out of this one. Your comprehension of our job is minimal at best.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/19/07 2:05pm
Msg #217354

Re: aren't you the same person

Sue I never called my borrowers stupid and your comment is incredibly petty. I cannot help that my borrowers wish to inquire a little about who I am. How rude would it be to tell them it is none of their business if they asked. If they dig, then I will engage them. And for your information, my schedule stays full with work from title companies as I provide them with well executed closing and the borrowers enjoyed the closing to boot. And most of them get a free consultation especially women on my time after the closing if they persist. What is your problem? Thank God my success doesn"t hinge on what you think or say.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/19/07 2:24pm
Msg #217363

Re: aren't you the same person

sorry, I stand by my opinion and don't think it's petty at all. You may not have used the word 'stupid' but that was certainly your implication - that without your 'assistance' they have no idea what their loan is about once you walk out the door.

I have done A LOT of closings and while I don't have a 'side' business, what I do with my time when I'm not with the borrowers has never, ever come up in conversation - I don't know what they 'dig'. Perhaps you open the door? My schedule is also as full as anyone elses with title companies - and I guarantee if they thought I was preparing a synopsis for the borrowers of the loan or if I were peddling other services, I wouldn't have my clients, no matter how perfect of a package I returned. By the way, borrowers 'enjoying' a closing? What's that about?

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/19/07 2:52pm
Msg #217373

Re: aren't you the same person

A lot of these borrowers are getting money to remodel and as they may discuss what they are doing and I comment intelligently about what they are saying, they want to know how I know so much about construction. And as far as enjoying a closing, my borrowers have found pleasure in me being their closing agent and routinely express that pleasure. If someone is not getting that kind of feed back, then maybe they need to be in another line of business.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/20/07 7:40am
Msg #217489

Re: aren't you the same person

Sue, it would serve you well if you were to follow Harrys' rule II. Netiquette and #4. You came out like a wild animal and attacked me without provocation. If you have proof that I am preparing synopsis for the borrowers and or that I am peddling my services then I suggest that you be prepared to back up that claim. If you cannot comprehend a post then don't come back with some scalding and uninformed statement that is intended to harm the poster. I clearly stated in the first post that I am not currently engaging in the construction business as I am involved in full time signings. It is the borrowers that persist on my other occupation as I have never left a card or indicated that I would do any work for them. I asked a legitimate question about a conflict of interest and you came on with no provocation whatsoever. So, if you have evidence of either of your claims then you post these on this forum and be prepared to back them up.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/19/07 12:18pm
Msg #217320

"It is the borrower that won't drop the subject once they know that I can remodel or build houses."

There is absolutely no reason, if you are being a PROFESSIONAL signing agent to let the borrowers know you do remodeling etc.
When I have gone to borrowers homes, they know I am a notary representing the title company by getting their loan docs signed and returned.

Reply by Ernest__CT on 10/20/07 12:02pm
Msg #217506

When doing a signing do not bring up any other ...

... business, religion, et cetera, that you are engaged in. It is unprofessional at least, and will _eventually_ come back to haunt you.

Chat with the borrowers?r Of course! Be pleasant. But remember: You're not there to do _anything_ other than complete the signing.

If the borrowers invite you to have a (non-alcoholic) beverage, cookie, etc., then partake if you would like to do so. We're not there socially; we're professionals doing an important job.

Reply by MelissaCT on 10/24/07 12:14pm
Msg #218040

Re: Disagree a bit

I have borrowers routinely ask if this is all I do all day (Drive around & notarize loan docs). I tell them that no, this is a part-time job & that I couldn't live off doing it full-time. That usually ends the "can I do it too?" conversation. However, it also opens up the what is your FT job aspect. I do answer what I do FT, if asked, but that conversation ends there.