Posted by LarryTN on 10/24/07 9:11am
Msg #217964

Notarizations

I don't get it...why do some of these companies ask that you notarize documents that do not have the borrower's signature on it? Lately I have had more and more documents like the drivers license ID form have a place ro notarize, but no place for the borrower to sign! I sometimes wonder if they're testing our knowledge of what should and shouldn't be notarized!
And another gripe...I am getting more and more documents associated with the RTC asking the borrower NOT to sign until after the RTC has expired...and the lender wants them to sign it but not date it. This makes no sense to me as the BO has the 3 days to decide if he wants to cancel. It's written in black and white! Why do they need a form saying the BO did not cancel?

Reply by Peter Rado on 10/24/07 9:49am
Msg #217974

Re: OK I'll do it... I don't have anything til 1pm anyway

The Drivers License ID form should have a line for the borrower to sign because the theory behind that doc is that the borrower is the one who is supposed to fill it out and then sign as though he/she is affirming that the information is provided by them. If there is no line, draw one in and ask them to sign. Please don't confuse this with the one you fill out and sign.

In the days before the telephone was invented some banks would tell you to get in your horse and buggy and come back in three days to sign off that you have not exercised your right to cancel. Now that everything is done on the phone and it is not reasonable for some one in Georgia to go to California to sign; they are asking the borrower to sign it in anticipation that they will not cancel. You should explain to the borrower that it's OK because if he does cancel, it supersedes the confirmation doc. The Confirmation doc reads: 3 days have elapsed since... Obviously if they cancel, it would be on a prior date nullifying the Confirmation doc.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/24/07 10:14am
Msg #217979

Re: OK I'll do it... I don't have anything til 1pm anyway

"You should explain to the borrower that it's OK because if he does cancel, it supersedes the confirmation doc"

I never have the borrower sign that doc at the table! I tell them to sign it and fax it back at the end of the recission period. Or ask the LO how they want the borrower to send it back.
That form should not be signed prior to the RTC expiration.

Reply by Dennis Larson on 10/24/07 10:41am
Msg #217995

Re: OK I'll do it... I don't have anything til 1pm anyway

Peter said, >>>>"If there is no line, draw one in and ask them to sign."<<<<

That my friend is considered UPL. Simply strike through the notary block and state, NO SIGNATURE TO NOTARIZE

Reply by MelissaCT on 10/24/07 10:49am
Msg #218001

Re: Even if there's a signature

of the borrower, you should still read the document & see what signature is being notarized. I have one TC that I refused to notarize the form because it didn't have the borrower's signature to be notarized, rather basically asked for me to notarize my own signature. They have subsequently slapped a signature line for the borrower onto the document, but the document still reads that I am effectively notarizing my own signature.

i.e. I have viewed the ID presented & here's what the ID states. Sign here. Then notarize that signature. The borrower's signature was slapped onto the document in an attempt to have notaries notarize, but the wording of the document remains "I have viewed the ID presented & here's what the ID states. Sign here. Then notarize that signature." The borrower isn't certifiying that the information is correct or even that it's their information. They're signing just for the sake of having their signature affixed to the document. I still can't notarize the form as it's written.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/24/07 10:59am
Msg #218007

Re: Even if there's a signature

"They're signing just for the sake of having their signature affixed to the document. I still can't notarize the form as it's written."

Do they have an acknowledgment or a jurat on the form? If it's an ack, I don't see why you can't notarize it, all you're attesting to is that the so and so is the one who signed the form, it doesn't matter what's actually on the form that they've signed.

Reply by natogan on 10/24/07 12:56pm
Msg #218053

Larry, the form you mentioned is Patriot Act CIP, these forms are not notarized. We complete and sign the form as a Signing Agent not as a Notary Public. CIP forms vary, and a majority of these forms request that information from the ID card be listed, such as the type of ID, the state agency that issued the ID, or any identification number on properly identified.

Reply by Peter Rado on 10/24/07 5:45pm
Msg #218140

I think we are talking about a different ID Form. Not the CIP

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/25/07 4:49pm
Msg #218305

I think you both may be making generalizations about forms that can vary greatly from lender to lender. I've seen situations where you are both right - not at the same time, of course! They may or may not be called the same thing, but every lender seems to have their own interpretation. Applying some basic principles with a little "common" (?) sense should help you deal with these situations.

There is seldom a right answer that applies in every circumstance, unless we are dealing with a matter of federal law (like RTC questions - which can also be handled in a variety of differents ways while still being legally compliant). When it comes to docs for Patriot Act compliance, I believe the law states what needs to be done, but not how to go about doing it. (That's my non-expert impression only!) Each entity then has to determine their own interpretation and method of compliance. jmho