Posted by Pierces Notary Services on 10/26/07 6:56pm
Msg #218519

PA Notaries - what would you do?

Borrower is married, ID in her married name, docs in her maiden name... finally finds an old expired PA license with her maiden name but it expired in 1997. Throwing papers at me with her maiden name like old loan papers, life insurance papers, etc. saying see I am so and so. Then proceeds to throw her birth certificate and marriage license from her first marriage. What would you do?

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/26/07 7:00pm
Msg #218520

Re: PA Notaries - what would you do?Excuse myself & leave! n/m

Reply by MikeC/NY on 10/26/07 7:25pm
Msg #218526

The only questions you need to answer is whether she's meeting PA's requirements for ID, and after that, is she meeting the lender's requirements for ID. The other possibility is an AKA/FKA affidavit, but that's the lender's call.

Some states are very strict, while others (like NY) pretty much leave it up to the notary to decide. I might accept the docs in her married name and the ID in her maiden name if I was reasonably certain that the signatures matched, and if she could produce something (a credit card or whatever) showing her married name. If she had nothing to tie the two together, I'd decline.

Reply by Pierces Notary Services on 10/26/07 7:36pm
Msg #218527

This is from the Dept. of State website

Determining the Identity of Person Appearing

The proper method for determining the identity of a person appearing before a notary under the amended Notary Public Law is that the "officer notarizing the instrument shall know through personal knowledge or have satisfactory evidence that the person appearing before the notary is the person described in and who is executing the instrument." "Personal knowledge" as defined in the amended Notary Public Law as having an acquaintance, derived from association with the individual in relation to other people and based upon a chain of circumstances surrounding the individual, which establishes the individual's identity. "Satisfactory evidence" means the reliance on the presentation of a current, government-issued identification card bearing a photograph or signature or physical description and serial or identification number or the oath or affirmation of a credible witness who is personally known to the notary and who personally knows the individual.

Her driver's license with her maiden name expired in 1997 - can't use it - not current - I did not personally know her and she didn't provide me anything else in the way of a current, government-issued identification card

Reply by Teri_PA on 10/26/07 8:24pm
Msg #218536

Mary---
I would continue to look for ID...For example, a social security card is a legally valid form of ID in PA (Would I use it alone, no...but with all the other ID's you have, you can make a case that you satisfactorily identified her). The other item that people sometimes do not change is their Voters Registration card---again a legally accepted form...
Finally, if I am unable to ID her legally, I ask title if I may change the vesting page, signature page, and my notary block to be Jane Doe (as ID'd) FKA Jane Dear (as on title)...Most of the time they are fine...whatever it takes to make it work....and then you are fine, too.

Reply by Pierces Notary Services on 10/27/07 8:43am
Msg #218562

Teri - she couldn't find any ID with her maiden name on it except for an old marriage license from her previous marriage and her birth certificate - that is not a current government issued ID - how can you change the name on the vesting page if the title is in her maiden name? the DOT has to match the title. I emailed my scenario to PAN and will see what they say. I was trying to adhere to the rules. She apparently did a loan for this same company a couple of years ago and had no ID with her maiden name but someone signed her anyway - she has been married 10 years. All she did have was an old expired PA DL from 1997 and I couldn't positively ID her with that because the picture was much younger and honestly didn't resemble what she looked like today. Apparently they redrew the docs with her married name and had someone else go back out there. they are also going to have to do a new deed to put title in her married name.

Reply by Teri_PA on 10/27/07 11:34am
Msg #218571

Mary---
Technically you are correct...but in reality, the vesting page, signature page, and notary block have to match exactly...No exceptions...
How many times do you see docs (I see them in Beneficial Offices all the time) where the AKA is used...and title has not been changed...It is sloppy...but legal...But, you can bet that I make sure there is an AKA affidavit enclosed which ensures that I identified the right person...and they swore it was their maiden name...
Do I offer this often...Nope....Not unless I am a million percent sure that they are who they say they are...
I would much rather see the docs corrected and a QuitClaim Deed prepared to correct the name...
But, in PA, the mortgage for recording purposes does not need to match the title...Although it should....which is why we can use the AKA's (I also see it precompleted on Chase's and a ton of other lenders)....
In your case, without valid ID...and the fact that you weren't a million percent confident that she was who she said she was...you were absolutely correct in your actions!

Reply by Ernest__CT on 10/26/07 9:35pm
Msg #218542

You've answered your own question, you just don't like the .

... answer you are getting.

LEGALLY you cannot accept her ID in PA, at least reading what you Posted and taking you at your word.

Stop trying to _justify_ doing the signing without PROPER identification. You either did it or you didn't. Now move on and live with the decision that you made.

Reply by MichiganAl on 10/27/07 1:14am
Msg #218549

I've got to disagree.

"Satisfactory evidence means the reliance on the presentation of a current, government-issued identification card bearing a photograph or signature or physical description and serial or identification number."

We get this same issue in Michigan. The wording doesn't say the name must match. It says current government issued i.d., bearing photo (does the picture look like her?), signature (does the handwriting look like a match?), physical description (does the description match?). So if she had a current i.d. where photo, handwriting, and description matched, and along with any other corroborating evidence I'm satisfied that it's her, then in my opinion it meets the standard of the wording above. Again, it doesn't say name must match. It says use current i.d. as satisfactory evidence.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/27/07 2:47am
Msg #218553

Ladies and Gentlemen, I think the larger point is being

missed: no one throws crap at me. The original poster mentioned twice that the documents were thrown at them, and I don't operate underthose conditions. The ID question is secondary.

Reply by Pierces Notary Services on 10/27/07 8:46am
Msg #218563

Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, I think the larger point is being

This is true Charles - she was very rude to me as well as the LO - I don't need to be treated like that. I was trying to be very professional. She told me over and over that she didn't care what the rules were...she wanted me to go ahead and do the signing no matter what. I finally did walk out after the LO called and on the answering machine left a message stating that they were drawing new docs with her married name and that I was being put on the do not call list and that they would find another notary to handle this.

Reply by Dorothy_MI on 10/27/07 9:13am
Msg #218564

Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, I think the larger point is being

I would call the LO and speak directly to him regarding the "Do Not Call List". Be polite, but gain the information. If it is true that you are on the DNC list, then I'd probably call the lender and ask for the compliance office and go over the scenario with them. After all you were really just trying to save them grief in the long run and that's the point I would make to them. Sometimes it's amazing the power those people have because daily they get to see first hand the future problems that can arise from NOT being compliant.

Reply by sue_pa on 10/27/07 9:18am
Msg #218565

Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, I think the larger point is being

I wouldn't go that high up the ladder as she has no idea if the LO made idle remarks on the borrower's machine to make himself the 'good guy' or if there is such a list.

Anytime you have a problem, get on the phone to your client - do it in front of the borrower - let them know that she doesn't have id acceptable for PA requirements. In effect, tattle on yourself first.

As for changing the deed - how are they going about that since she'll have to sign her maiden name. Always a pickle when people (borrower) haven't taken care of the details of their own lives.

Reply by WDMD on 10/27/07 9:37am
Msg #218567

Re: Ladies and Gentlemen, I think the larger point is being

"As for changing the deed - how are they going about that since she'll have to sign her maiden name. "

I had a correction deed in a package before that used an FKA in that situation. They had Jane Doe FKA Jane Jones. They had me list Jane Doe, her current name, in my certificate. Don't know if that would be legal or not as far as the deed was concerned. I only had to state that Jane Doe appeared before me.