Posted by LC/FL on 10/5/07 8:30am
Msg #214931
Signing Agent w/Disability - From Desperate Thread
I have a 3 lb chihuahua, he goes everywhere with me in a purse made just for him. He is on my shoulder or sat on the floor during the signing and have never had but one incident where I was concerned. That borrower had a rott that would not leave me alone, trying to get into my lab and I was concerned that mine would get squashed in the process. But even then he never made a sound.
He whines when I am going into an asthema or panic attack. Then instead of having to take drugs I take him in my arms and the attack USUALLY goes away. Sometimes it is severe enough that it take a few minutes but most times it passes. He is NEVER more than arms reach from me for this reason. He sleeps with me, showers with me, goes to work with me and to signings with me. He has probably saved my life as I have had times where the asthema attacks have been severe enough I couldnt operate the puffers or machine I have to carry and because of him I have not needed them nearly as often for the last 2 years (length of time I have had him).
Before he came into my life I had been in respiratory arrest 2 different times and one of those times I was about to be trached. So I value him immensly.
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Reply by Philip Johnson on 10/5/07 8:45am
Msg #214936
He goes with you to signings?
I don't mind dogs, but my folks on the other hand would freak if someone they didn't know brought their dog to an appointment. I do hope you ask if he will be allright first? All in all I appreciate what he does for you, but I believe this is a bit much.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 8:48am
Msg #214937
Re: He goes with you to signings?
Federal law prevents discrimination against disabilities and especially those with service animals. NO ONE has ever seen him at a signing as he is in a purse/bag made especially for him.
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Reply by WDMD on 10/5/07 8:51am
Msg #214938
Re: He goes with you to signings?
"Federal law prevents discrimination against disabilities and especially those with service animals"
I've heard of seeing eye dogs, but are you saying service animals include dogs for people with asthma? Interesting.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 9:45am
Msg #214947
Re: He goes with you to signings?
according to the law, physician, lawyer and local office on disabilities - yes
if the animal is a service animal it can be a horse or whatever!!!
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Reply by WDMD on 10/5/07 10:05am
Msg #214952
Re: He goes with you to signings?
I guess I should re-phrase my question. Is asthma considered ( under the disability law) a disability that would require any kind of service animal for the disability? Just curious.
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Reply by Becca_FL on 10/5/07 10:07am
Msg #214954
Re: He goes with you to signings?
The law is not specific...
>>>To be protected by the ADA, one must have a disability or have a relationship or association with an individual with a disability. An individual with a disability is defined by the ADA as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities, a person who has a history or record of such an impairment, or a person who is perceived by others as having such an impairment. The ADA does not specifically name all of the impairments that are covered.<<<
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:22am
Msg #214968
Thank you Becca and it also does allow for service animals
where there is documented evidence of that animals assistance to a person with asthema, as I have had very lenghthy conversations with medical and legal personell in reference to this. I fought this for years until the issues were too great. I cried for weeks when they put the handicapped sticker on me. I fought it tooth and nail, but 2 near death experiences have taught me to listen to those that are trying to help me and to be kinder to those that are unkind to me.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 10:29am
Msg #214976
Re: He goes with you to signings?
Asthma is a disability as defined by the Americans with Disabilities Act, the National Rehabilitation Act, et al.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:17am
Msg #214965
Re: He goes with you to signings?
until I went into respiratory arrest I didnt think so, but 2 occurances of near death have made me listen to the dr alot more.
people die with asthema attacks all the time, case here recently of a child in jax that did.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 10:27am
Msg #214971
They are called
Emotional support animals. They are protected as are "guide dogs". But, the question here is HOW to approach the issue should a borrower object if discovered. I will have to think about this a bit and check the standards.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:29am
Msg #214975
Re: They are called
I have never had a borrower with an issue. 100% have been wonderful.
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Reply by aatatusko on 10/5/07 8:57am
Msg #214939
Re: He goes with you to signings?
Maybe no one sees him but you can bet my Yorkies would know there was another dog in their house. If anyone came to my house with a strange dog I wouldn't let them in, it has nothing to do with discimination, it is a private home not a public place. Good for you finding a solution to a difficult problem.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 10:32am
Msg #214979
Actually it does
She can't be refused. She takes reasonable precautions. I would suggest she have an alternative location to sign in if someone were to object.
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Reply by Philip Johnson on 10/5/07 10:50am
Msg #214997
Can't be refused?
My house, my rules. Federal law does not speak to whom you have to let in your "PRIVATE PROPERTY". Of course that doesn't apply to the law with a warrant of course.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:55am
Msg #215001
Re: Can't be refused?
of course not, and you would not have to allow him in your house, but i would meet you at another location for the signing wherein this would not be an issue.
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Reply by kate_nortca on 10/5/07 4:00pm
Msg #215108
Re: Can't be refused?
I hate to sound mean but if someone called me and said they were coming to my house with a dog, it would not be alright. I have several cats and they are NOT dog fans. Furthermore I would not feel obligated to leave my home to accommodate the signer because of their health issues. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but isn't it our job to be flexible for the client and not vice versa? Why should the client care about my health issues?
Kate
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 5:07pm
Msg #215118
Re: Can't be refused?
Yes, and I've said as much. If the borrower objects and is unwilling to meet at an alternative location (I do know notaries that have offices so they can perform 8-9 signings during the last week) then the notary should pass ... perhaps have an alternative notary (if the SS agrees) to pass it to.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 10:56am
Msg #215003
Re: Can't be refused?
You are right Philip! My house, my rules. And no, I wouldn't go to an alternate location to do the signing, the reason a loan signer is used is for the convenience of the borrower not the signing agent.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 10:57am
Msg #215004
Re: Can't be refused?
Perhaps I mistyped -- I should clarify. The signing services may not discriminate. The borrowers have a right to say that the dog cannot enter for whatever reason. I believe she should be very honest with the borrowers. Should they say no, then she should be prepared to suggest an alternative location. Should the borrowers decline the alternative, I believe she should inform the signing service that she cannot do the signing.
Its a difficult situation that requires a lot of management on her account. She should probably discuss the situation with each signing service that calls her --- they can't deny her an opportunity to make a living --- it would seem to me that most signing services are owned and operated by reasonable people who can be understanding. Will they? Most will, some will not.
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Reply by Becca_FL on 10/5/07 11:06am
Msg #215016
Re: Can't be refused?
"The signing services may not discriminate."
Not so according to Title I. An "average" SS employs only 3 people, many just 1-2.
>>>Title I requires employers with 15 or more employees to provide qualified individuals with disabilities an equal opportunity to benefit from the full range of employment-related opportunities available to others.<<<
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 11:15am
Msg #215025
Re: Can't be refused?
But, that applies to their employees, not independent contractors. Title I covers individuals who are "employed" by the company. It mandates accessibility or "reasonable accommodation" for persons employed by that firm. It requires an accessible environment except where the limitations kick in --- not just the number of employees (now the threshold is five fulltime, I believe --- I really don't keep up with the employment stuff )but, also where expenditures to accommodate the employee are concerned.
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 11:34am
Msg #215045
Re: Can't be refused?
Well, we are independent so there goes that.
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Reply by Kate/CA on 10/5/07 2:58pm
Msg #215086
Re: Can't be refused?
I agree.
My daughter and grandchildren are highly allergic to dogs and cats. Everyone in the family all have asthma which at times is very bad. To have someone bring in a dog to my house, that I am not aware of is a very careless action on that persons part. If it were an dog that had hair and not fur it would not bother my daughter or grandchildren, such as a poodle.
I think you should at least notify the borrower of the situation and get an O K.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 5:08pm
Msg #215119
Please see Msg #215004 ... n/m
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:53am
Msg #215000
Re: Actually it does
and I do!
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 10:58am
Msg #215006
Re: Actually it does
If the borrower has no problem with it, then come on in and sign away. If they do and they choose not to sign at an alternative location, she can come in or they can be sued. Get in your car and go to the courthouse and file suit, I'm not gonna let you in my home if I don't want you there. It has nothing to do with discrimination. If someone is allergic to animals and will become very ill because of that pet and that person would rather them have an allergic reaction and possible hospitalization than to have another notary come, that is wrong,
w r o n g, wrong. (Not saying that anyone here implied that)
Good Lord, I have a handicapped mother and I know what it is like but this is ridiculous. If someone wants to pay part of my property taxes to do my settlement at my home, come on over.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 11:04am
Msg #215013
Please see Msg #215004 ... n/m
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 9:07am
Msg #214943
Re: He goes with you to signings?
I am so sorry that you are ill and I am happy that this little dog helps you but I cannot deal with dogs and for some reason I am scared to death of them and my husband is allergic to them, I am sorry to say that you will have to leave the little pup in your car if you come to my home.
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Reply by Becca_FL on 10/5/07 10:05am
Msg #214953
Re: He goes with you to signings?
>>>Federal law prevents discrimination against disabilities and especially those with service animals.<<<
I think you need to read Disability Rights Laws again. http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/cguide.htm
The government still can't tell me what to do in my own home, thank God. I think you have just succeeded in getting your name removed from many data bases with you announcement this morning.
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Reply by maddieNJ on 10/5/07 10:07am
Msg #214956
LOL Becca - that's for sure n/m
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:09am
Msg #214957
Re: He goes with you to signings?
thank you for your overwhelming kindness
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Reply by maddieNJ on 10/5/07 10:12am
Msg #214961
What kind of reaction did you expect? n/m
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:18am
Msg #214966
Re: What kind of reaction did you expect?
Stupid me..... PROFESSIONALISM I guess.
Since no one has ever had a problem with it and I would NEVER choose to harm someone that did, verbally or otherwise, I just thought this was a professional crowd.
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Reply by Linda Juenger on 10/5/07 10:27am
Msg #214972
Question??
I have a question. My son had asthma as a child. One of the main things that triggered attacks was animals (dogs, cats, any kind of animal). It was the dander that caused it. How does holding an animal close to you help your asthma attack? I did a tremendous amount of research on this when he was little and no where did I ever read, nor did a doctor ever tell me that a dog could stop or help an asthma attack. From what I am reading in your posts (between the lines) is that you are having panic attacks, not asthma attacks. I have no doubt whatsoever that holding your dog helps you tremendously during a panic attack. That is wonderful and I am glad that you have him for that. But, I seriously doubt that he is able to help during a true asthma attack. Only medication can do that. I may be wrong, but going through this for years with my son taking the nebulizer to school at lunch, carrying inhalers everywhere, getting rid of our dog, taking the carpet out of his room, encasing his mattress in plastic etc etc etc, I am pretty aware of what it takes to control asthma. Holding a dog was one of the things that I would have had to probably call an ambulance for. One time we were at a neighbors and they had brand new puppies. I let my son hold one. 5 minutes later we were literally running home. I had to get him in the shower to get the dander off of him. I would be very curious to read documented medical information that substantiates your findings that dogs can help an asthma attack.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:57am
Msg #215005
Re: Question??
Chihuahua's are known for helping people with asthema.
However, the key was the dander. I bathe him daily and he is as clean as any person and cleaner than some I guess.
Alot of dogs are not kept clean, since he sleeps with me he is.
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Reply by Linda Juenger on 10/5/07 11:12am
Msg #215021
Chihuahua's are known for helping people with asthma
Where can I read a medical documentation on this? I am very interested.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 11:19am
Msg #215032
Re: Chihuahua's are known for helping people with asthma
Its not the breed ... its the emotional support they provide. Dogs are much better than cats --- this is documented. In fact many hospitals contract with companies for emotional support therapy --- companies bring dogs to the hospitals to mingle with patients. Its fascinating, really. Its documented that when petting or interacting with a dog, the blood pressure of elderly people actually drops. It has also been documented that children with lengthy illnesses admitted to hospitals actually recover more quickly when they receive regular visits with dogs.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 11:27am
Msg #215038
Re: Chihuahua's are known for helping people with asthma
From the net:
Although there is no known medical evidence to support the idea that they can cure any disease, many Chihuahua Owners who suffer with Asthma or severe Allergies claim the dogs help.
It has not been uncommon for people living in the Southwest to get a Chihuahua for a child or family member with Asthma or Allergy problems. The dogs sometimes lie near that person’s mouth while they are sleeping and later become ill. At the same time, the person involved would wake up feeling better. The idea was that the problem was transferred from the suffering human to the dog. Whether that part of the tale is true or not, it is a fact that Asthma and Allergy sufferers seem to do better with short or long haired Chihuahuas then with any other dog breed
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 11:29am
Msg #215041
Re: Chihuahua's are known for helping people with asthma
That's interesting. I didn't know the breed matters. Makes sense --- personality can be breed-specific.
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Reply by Margaret_FL on 10/5/07 3:09pm
Msg #215089
Re: Chihuahua's are known for helping people with asthma
I have a friend that is disabled. She has epilepsy and has a Service Dog, German Shepard. She had trouble with discrimination. One was in the Condo she owned and had to sell and move. The building did not allow "Pets" She contantly told them he was not a pet. He wore a vest with "Service Animal" on it and he had a badge. She sold her Condo and moved, then she sued and won. The other case was with the State of Florida. She stopped at a rest area while traveling and was told by the "Rent a Cop" that she could not bring her "pet" into the restroom. She stated again, she is not a pet. That case was also resolved and now the signs at the rest areas say "No Pets, except Service Animals allowed. She contantly battles this everyday wherever she goes. I have been with my friend and I have seen the discrimination first hand. And by the way, a Service Animal can be any animal. I also know someone who has a monkey. You are right, it does not apply to private homes. Why do we have to ut up with "pets" peeing in our notary bag, cats walking all over the papers. The borrowers never ask me if I am OK, I know it is their home, but please put the pets up. I have 6 min-pins and I always put them up for repairmen and others who come to my home.
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Reply by MichiganAl on 10/5/07 7:05pm
Msg #215140
It's nothing but a ridiculous old wive's tale.
Does anyone in this day and age actually believe that an illness can leave a person and transfer to a dog?
Of course asthma sufferers may do better with short haired dogs than long haired dogs, but it doesn't mean it helps or cures them, it just means if you're going to get a dog, a short hair would cause you the least problem. It doesn't HELP asthma sufferers, it's just the least bad dog to have if you insist on having one. And it certainly doesn't make them service dogs. I said it in another post, I think stuff like this gives people with legitimate disabilities a bad name.
Man, this thread will go down in the all time archives.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 10/5/07 7:21pm
Msg #215148
Re: It's nothing but a ridiculous old wive's tale.
**Man, this thread will go down in the all time archives.**
Be that as it may, Al, and no argument here...there's the personal all time favorite post of mine from back in the Spring of '05..............
Re: Here we go again...
Posted by JUST ME of ? on 4/21/05 2:36pm Msg #33158
JUST A THOUG. wHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. JESUS DIDN'T GIVE NEWBIES A HARD TIME DID HE.
---------------
You know...first you kinda pause and go, Well...no, Jesus probably didn't give ... newbies...a...hard...wait a minute...WHAT NEWBIES??? It makes me laugh out loud every time I think about it.
Hope you all are having a great Friday evening...I know I am.
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 10:10am
Msg #214958
Re: He goes with you to signings? Excuse me..
if I am taking this wrong but you have now just told me that you will bring a dog into my home because you legally can. Take your feet off of my driveway, you are trespassing.
My sister has a dog, my handicapped aunt has a dog (she walks with a walker to the bathroom and has arthritis at 44 that has left her disabled) but when she comes for Christmas, she leaves the dog in the van or at home. Sorry.
I was really pulling for ya and I really believe animals are important for people with disabilities , my mother has glaucoma and had one eye removed when I was 4 years old and is 80% deaf, I know first hand what people with disabilities have a need for but you aren't going to tell me what you are going to do on my property. Sorry.
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 10:11am
Msg #214960
Re: He goes with you to signings? Excuse me..
it's called respect not pushiness.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:15am
Msg #214963
Re: He goes with you to signings? Excuse me..
You know I have NEVER refused to help anyone, regardless, and have had someone come into my home and have accomodated them by removing my animal to another room due to their request. You know kindness goes a long way.
You were pulling for me??? How by slamming me for something else. You know, I have read alot on this site and find this one to be one of the most harsh to each other I have ever found. I have made a few friends here, but some blow my mind. Simply amazing that people have to degrade and be unkind instead of just asking..... NO?
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 10:27am
Msg #214970
Re: He goes with you to signings? Excuse me..
You started the thread and I must have mis-read. I just told you how my own mother has one eye for God sake's and is 80% deaf, that is a whole heck of alot more than you know. You just came across this board saying that (in a roundabout way) that you were going to take the dog where ever you wanted and had a legal right to do so.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:36am
Msg #214983
Re: He goes with you to signings? Excuse me..
no, I said that every disabled person has a right to do so. I apologize to you if there was a misunderstanding, but how many times have YOU had to do a signing with a borrower that was a smoker?
I am so alergic to smoke that the asthema attacks are instant and often result in losing conscienceness, yet NO ONE has addressed our issues when trying to accomodate others. I was not trying to be unkind, and I am most sorry if I can across that way. My point was to say that by the Grace of God, an avenue of treatment that did NOT result in drugs was found for my asthema and panic attacks that has saved my life TWICE.
But a question, you said your mother had a seeing eye dog, I PERSONALLY could not imagine not letting anyone, let alone my own mother have her service animal around me, regardless of my feelings about the dog, fears of same, or allergy to same. I would permit the dog at my own risk/cost just to help someone else. But that is me, perhaps there are additional issues that are associated with your decision. However, I respect you and would not have a problem with your decision as it is your personal choice.
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 10:41am
Msg #214988
Re: He goes with you to signings? Excuse me..
Never said she had a seeing eye dog and if she did, my husband would have to move his little butt outside until she left or I would go to her house. I hate it when people smoke while at a closing and 9 times out of 10, at least the ones I have done for 11 years, they are too stressed to smoke. (how ironic)
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:45am
Msg #214992
Re: He goes with you to signings? Excuse me..
Loretta, that is too funny.
And I am truly sorry if there was a misunderstanding, I would never KNOWINGLY jeapardize anyone.
But just a note, you do know that NO ONE cares much about asthema suffers and I have actually had someone puff and blow right into my face when I have informed them that I was allergic (my first respiratory arrest) and sadly I could do nothing and I ALMOST DIED!!!! That was a deliberate attempt to hurt me. But nothing was done to them at all. Sad.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 10:39am
Msg #214986
If she is removed
then the signing service (not a legal opinion but, I am an ADA consultant) has violated the ADA. If no borrower has complained then there is no problem. But, in instances where a borrower may be allergic --- and you cannot know the potential severity of any reaction --- they could refuse her entry.
She might consider developing a policy where she discloses this to the SS and borrower and should the borrower object (the signing service cannot without violating the ADA) that she have an alternative location for the signing or agree to leave the dog in the car during the signing.
She needs to really give this a lot of thought.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:42am
Msg #214989
Absolutely, borrowers know and no one has objected n/m
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Reply by cassiewi on 10/5/07 10:45am
Msg #214991
They know, but they haven't seen him?
This is what you posted above, is that what you're saying?
"Federal law prevents discrimination against disabilities and especially those with service animals. NO ONE has ever seen him at a signing as he is in a purse/bag made especially for him."
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:45am
Msg #214994
Re: They know, but they haven't seen him?
correct
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 10:42am
Msg #214990
Re: He goes with you to signings?
"Federal law prevents discrimination against disabilities and especially those with service animals"
That is true. But it doesn't cover the borrowers not wanting a dog in their home. Anyone has the right to refuse entrance to someone at their home.
Actually there is a case going on right now (I believe), a deaf boy took his hearing dog to school. However the school banned the dog on the grounds that the dog¹s presence was contrary to school policy and might pose health risks to staff members and students who have severe allergies to dogs.
I have no idea how that case will turn out.
The boy apparently has limited heaing with cochlear implants. He deliberately turned off his hearing aids to prove a point, that he was deaf. He was made to take his dog out, and he returned to school with his hearing aids turned on and was able to complete his day in school.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:52am
Msg #214998
Re: He goes with you to signings?
absolutely agreed!
if there is a case, he should win. laws have been passed to prevent those with fear or allergies from causing service animals to be removed from places. there are a number of cases wherein this has occurred and the service animal will prevail. there are a number of cases here in fl where it has been challenged and the animal prevails. it has been tried in many courts and proved that these animals are far more helpful to those they assist than harmful to those that fear or claim allergy to. i am not allergic to animals but have been around some that say they are and they are not allergic to mine. why, i dont know, perhaps as mine showers with me daily and most alergists will tell you it is the dog dander not the dog they are allergic to.
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Reply by maddieNJ on 10/5/07 10:58am
Msg #215007
He showers with you, too?
Are you just trying to get a rise out of the forum?
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 11:01am
Msg #215008
Re: He showers with you, too?
NO! it is fact.
But I am personally stunned at the reaction from professionals as to this issue. I would never force the issue with anyone that was against it. I am a reasonable person. I do not condemn nor insult where I do not understand. I take it into personal consideration that others have rights too. I strive very hard to remember that when I speak to anyone.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 11:05am
Msg #215015
Re: He showers with you, too?
Are you just trying to get a rise out of the forum? You comment is insensitive.
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Reply by maddieNJ on 10/5/07 11:08am
Msg #215020
Re: He showers with you, too?
Sorry for being so insensitive - I just don't understand why she brought up this topic in the first place
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 11:23am
Msg #215035
Re: He showers with you, too?
Who knows ... who cares. It is an important consideration because a lot of signing agents have things that complicate their ability to do their job --- disabilities, childcare, caring for ill parents or children, etc. The discussion, I think, helps all of us ... especially as we interact with those with these issues.
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Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/5/07 11:23am
Msg #215036
Message Deleted
This message has been deleted by a forum moderator.
Reason: Generally Inappropriate
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 11:07am
Msg #215018
Re: He goes with you to signings?
He may not win! He has testified that he doesn't have his hearing dog with him when he is out riding his bike or when he is at the local pool as there are no dogs allowed at the pool and he says when he is riding his bke he cannot watch out for the dog.
He has said he has never stayed in the classroom during fire drill for failing to hear the alarm or see the strobe lights.
It looks like he manages perfectly well at school without the dog.
I am allergic to cats, and it is no fun being around one. I believe someone in this thread has also said her son has asthma and a dog will set it off.
Just so you don't get the wrong idea, I love dogs. But I will be the one (or my husband) to decide if we want a strange dog in the house for no matter how brief a time
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:11am
Msg #214959
I have never gotten a call that referenced this site, and I have only met a very slim few that were social. So sit there and judge and make your day.
I am worried NOT!
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 10:19am
Msg #214967
"I have never gotten a call that referenced this site"
Unless you ask a lot of companies forget to tell you where they got their name.
I usually try to remember to tell my signing agents I found them on Notary Rotary so they know their premier membership was worth paying for.
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Reply by Marlene/USNA on 10/5/07 10:31am
Msg #214978
Liza, I think my initial reaction is, why do you feel you have to hide your dog? A service dog is a good advertisement for the value animals can provide to their humans.
A qualified service dog wears a vest and an ID tag. My Bob Dog is in training to be a service dog. He's too big to hide in a handbag. If a customer objects to his presence, I would have to tell the SS that I couldn't accept the assignment or I would refer them to another notary in my network.
I wouldn't assume to threaten the customer with a discrimination lawsuit because they are allergic to, scared of or simply don't want Bob Dog on their property. I would respect their wishes. They are, after all, the customer.
I don't think anyone is judging you for your disability. I think you are being called to account for your inconsideration of the people whose homes you visit.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:40am
Msg #214987
I do not hide him at all. I would never threaten anyone with suit for their option of their choice to not have him in their personal home.
I respect others more than most. I simply carry him this way because everyone trys to pet him and wants to hold him as he is so small and this prevents the issue of having to tell them that he prefers not to be petted by everyone.
I would refer them to another notary as well if they requested he not be there. I have a great relationship with another notary on this site and would recommend her in an instant.
BUT not ALL sevice dogs were the vest or id tag. I have verified this with 2 agencies in FL.
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Reply by Marlene/USNA on 10/5/07 10:56am
Msg #215002
Then you don't have a QUALIFIED service dog. Just a dog that is providing a service for you, which is not the same thing.
If he's not a QUALIFIED service dog, then I'm willing to bet (not a lawyer, don't know) that a good lawyer can shoot down any case you make in court that he's protecting you from severe asthma attacks, papers or not. I can claim that Bob Dog helps me pick out the healthiest food in supermarkets to keep my diabetes under control, and get doctors to sign papers that agree with me, and we still won't get in the supermarket. But if Bob Dog completes his training and passes his exams and wears his vest and card like a good dog, then he gets into supermarkets right along with the guide dogs.
(Maybe this is state-specific?)
You have chosen to work in a field where our needs and desires are subordinate to those of our customers, federal lawsuits notwithstanding.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 11:02am
Msg #215009
You are correct ... its not a "service dog". But, it is an "emotional support animal", prescribed by a physician and, therefore, the same as a prescribed medication. So, it is protected by the law (not my opinion --- it has, I understand (from civil rights lawyers), been determined by the EEOC). That being said, please read my response to Phillip, above.
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Reply by Marlene/USNA on 10/5/07 11:04am
Msg #215012
Then she should stop calling it a service dog.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 11:03am
Msg #215010
First, in FL he is qualified!
Second, I dont push him on anyone
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 10:47am
Msg #214995
Except
she has, apparently, informed the borrowers in advance and they have had no problem with it.
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Reply by Becca_FL on 10/5/07 11:13am
Msg #215022
Well, I just got a call from a SS owner that reads this site and you have been removed from that data base. Now the SS is re-writing their terms and conditions to include another silly disclosure...please do not take your pet(s) to a closing, service animal or otherwise. I think that ranks up there with the "do not use colored paper" disclosure.
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 11:16am
Msg #215028
If it's okay with the borrower, who really cares but since we are talking about this, I don't like it when people take their kids to closings. I guess that's okay too if the borrowers don't mind.
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Reply by maddieNJ on 10/5/07 11:18am
Msg #215030
Bringing your kids to closings? I have a 6 mo old son and I make special arrangements for him when I have appointments.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 11:31am
Msg #215044
I removed one signing agent from my database when Title complained she had taken her grandchild to a signing.
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 11:35am
Msg #215048
I had to take mine once. She sat in the car playing her gameboy, never went inside.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 11:38am
Msg #215050
Re: Signing Agent w/Disability - From - Loretta
As hot as it gets in Florida you cannot leave a child in a car.
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Reply by Becca_FL on 10/5/07 11:42am
Msg #215051
Re: Signing Agent w/Disability - From - Loretta
You can be arrested for leaving unattended children in the car here in Florida. A woman was arrested in Martin County a few weeks ago for leaving her two kids in the car while she ran in to a convenience store to buy a pack of smokes.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 11:49am
Msg #215052
Re: Signing Agent w/Disability - From - Loretta
You can't blame them for arresting her. Look how many children have died in recent months from being left in cars.
A couple from out of state were arrested not too long ago for leaving children in their car while they went shopping.
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 11:51am
Msg #215054
Hey guys....she's 16 years old. n/m
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 11:53am
Msg #215057
Re: Hey guys....she's 16 years old.
I guess there are ding dongs that leave little kids in the car but this kid don't count.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 11:56am
Msg #215059
Re: Hey guys....she's 16 years old.
Hmm at 16 you could drop her off at the mall with a credit card or the beach here LOL
She would probably prefer that
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 11:58am
Msg #215061
Re: Hey guys....she's 16 years old.
Are you crazy??? She likes Juicy Couture and Tiffany mercandise. I'm not dropping her off anywhere with my money
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Reply by jba/fl on 10/5/07 2:21pm
Msg #215080
the arrest is a felony in FL n/m
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Reply by aatatusko on 10/5/07 11:50am
Msg #215053
Can't leave a dog in the car here in VA n/m
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 11:37am
Msg #215049
I would have, too.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 11:29am
Msg #215042
I got the same Becca. Was it "E" that called you?
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 10:16am
Msg #214964
Do you carry the authorized "service dog" card with you?
Is it a good idea to be doing signings when there is a distinct possibility you will have an asthma or panic attack?
My Yorkie and dachshund would certainly know if there was another dog in the house and they probably wouldn't like it.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 10:28am
Msg #214974
The card is not issued for all animals, only SEEING EYE DOGS. I do have the proper paperwork on me at all times from both the physician and the lawyer.
I am not trying to be unkind to anyone and if someone chooses NOT to let me do a close because of their phobias or attempt to be unkind to me, I am not the one that has to live with that decision. Although I enjoy helping people with these services, I do not rest my life on it. I have learned that people are vile at times and I just try to be kinder.
I feel 100% confident that if you are/were a closing agency and requested that I do one for you that you would have no complaints whatsoever. What is sad is that because of some of the comments on here, I may never be given a chance. Sader is that these people would tell others that they are not discriminating agaisnt others, and that would be incorrect. Do I have a problem with their issues, not at all, they have to answer for what they do.
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 10:32am
Msg #214980
I absolutley do not discriminate. Helllloooo. I take my mother's eye out every couple of months to clean her eye. I am sorry but blindness is one of the worse things anyone can deal with. You just missed the whole point. I would just ask that you leave the little one outside and away from my husband.
Okay guys, we need to be out networking with new clients, I just posted another company gone and no fowarding number.
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Reply by Marlene/USNA on 10/5/07 10:34am
Msg #214982
Service Dogs
Qualified service dogs DO wear a vest and an ID tag/card indicating that they have completed training and passed exams.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 10:50am
Msg #214996
Re: Service Dogs
Yes, service dogs do but, there is no vest or training for "emotional support animals", as they are called. She does need a letter from a physician prescribing it and should have it with her at all times should she be questioned.
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Reply by Marlene/USNA on 10/5/07 11:03am
Msg #215011
Re: Service Dogs
Then she should stop calling her dog a service dog.
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Reply by CaliNotary on 10/5/07 4:17pm
Msg #215112
Message Deleted
This message has been deleted by a forum moderator.
Reason: Abusive
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Reply by Stamper_WI on 10/5/07 10:32am
Msg #214981
I worked in a real estate office that had an african grey parrot and a calico cat. a sign was posted on the door. Still a woman came in who did not see it. She took one look at the cat and ran screaming from the building. No kidding! Her husband explained that she had always been extremely allergic to cats, and that inadvertant exposures landed her in the hospital frequently. Her reaction is like an allergy attack. The broker finally go the message and moved the cat out and put the parrot next to my desk since I was one of the few people she liked.
Bottom line folks should know if you have a dog with you. Just say you have a small service dog with you that remains out of sight when you confirm your appt. You may have to explain that it is in service for your asthma but I think many people would be understanding. Unfortuneately some will refuse. But that is their perogative. They have as much right to not be around a dog as you do to have it in service. Especially if they have allergies or are afraid of dogs. Size doesn't matter when fear is involved. If nothing else they will take pains to remove their own animals while you are there.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 10:53am
Msg #214999
"Especially if they have allergies or are afraid of dogs. Size doesn't matter when fear is involved."
True - Lil Bit is small. Lately my youngest grandson has become afraid of small dogs and when he is here I put her in another room. He used to play with her and pet her when he was here, now he cries when she gets near him. I am hoping it will pass.
As far as borrowers smoking cigarettes, I have been lucky, they usually asked if I minded if they smoked. If a borrower did smoke I would start coughing, and they would apologize and put the cigarette out until I left.
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Reply by maddieNJ on 10/5/07 11:04am
Msg #215014
Why did you start this thread in the first place? n/m
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Reply by Becca_FL on 10/5/07 11:21am
Msg #215034
Re: Why did you start this thread in the first place?
I think poor Liza just needs some attention and a place to complain about her problems. Personally, I think I would have chosen a professional therapist over a bunch of NSAs with time on their hands, but that's just me.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 11:28am
Msg #215040
Re: Why did you start this thread in the first place?
Thank you Becca for your sensitivity. I will not make the same mistake again. You can be assured of that. I THOUGHT I was dealing with professionals.
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Reply by Becca_FL on 10/5/07 11:35am
Msg #215047
Re: Why did you start this thread in the first place?
>>>I THOUGHT I was dealing with professionals.<<<
You are...Professional NSAs that know it is inappropriate to bring dogs and children to closings. I think you need the RIGHT kind of professional help that can not be found on a notary forum. Here's an idea...why not find a career where your needs will not impose on the people you are hired to serve?
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 11:56am
Msg #215060
I am sorry. The professionals I was hoping for were those
that did not berate others for being different, might offer a kind word to someone in need, or perhaps help someone locate another professional that may be able to assist them with a specific issue they were dealing with.
Instead, here I have been berated, spoken down to with disgust, insulted, and even been told I have been removed from some databases to prevent my being called to do business with someone. That is not professionals. That is mean-spirited and hateful people that hurt others that are different than they are. I hope you never have the opportunity to service someone with a disability since so little compasion is evident here.
I guess I am wrong to believe that as Notary's we are officers of the State of Florida and as such are EXPECTED to be more tolerante of others differences, needs and strive to do what we can to help them. Stupid me! I will be needing notarial services shortly for several reasons, perhaps I will REQUIRE the notary be disabled so that I can be assured BOTH professionalism and compasion. What a concept!
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Reply by PA_Notary_II on 10/5/07 3:44pm
Msg #215104
If you wish to consider me as the first one "out of line"...
You seem to be a very emotionally needy individual, what with your problems at work, your asthmatic condition and your attachment to your furry friend. I hope I'm not out of line when I say that this is a board for discussions of a professional nature, not emotional, medical, personal topics that get out of line as this thread has. This is a NOTARY board....discuss signature requirements, venue issues, SS and TC entities and oh so many other important items that are specific to this business. This entire thread has been about YOU, my dear woman. I think you would be better serviced by having your problems aired on a board of a different nature (personal) than a professional board such as this. I have the utmost sympathy for you and sincerely hope you get the help you so obviously need. I just don't think this is the place for it. While we have had personal problems aired in the past on this board, I have never seen it get this involved or convoluted.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 11:51am
Msg #215055
Re: Why did you start this thread in the first place?
Liza
Don't take this the wrong way. But why would you be a signing agent with all the stress that can come with it (docs being late, irate borrowers etc) if you are prone to panic attacks.
There are so many things in this business more than others that could trigger a panic attack.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 12:11pm
Msg #215062
Re: Why did you start this thread in the first place?
I enjoy helping others. I have had only one signing that I left from and that was because the signer was a screamer that said her boyfriend was supposed to be there and the agency set the appointment at a time he had to work and she was frazzled. I explained that if she had any questions that we could get him or the loan officer that helped her on the phone and she said she didnt want to feel presured and would reschedule it when she was sure she had no more questions and could make sure her boyfriend was present with her. I called the agency and explained and left. No stress, no mess.
I am a professional and try to remember that people deal with things differently and that if I can help them it will help me in the long run. I try to be compassionate and hope that if I ever really need someone to be compassionate to me that God will give me that right person. If you are an agency I would love the opportunity of being of service to you. I am 100% confident that you will have no issues with my service. I am happy to help those I can and feel that is all I can do.
Just for the record, I have never had an irrate borrower, but I have had agencies get the paperwork to me more than an hour after I was to be there. I just rescheduled the appointment and got it done. Had a borrower whose power went out and they wanted to do it the next day. Not a problem. I try to accomodate however I can.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 12:51pm
Msg #215066
Re: Why did you start this thread in the first place?
"If you are an agency I would love the opportunity of being of service to you."
Yes, I have a signing agency. There are over 200 signing agents listed in your zip code and I already have a list of those I use. I am not adding any more in your area.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 10/5/07 1:00pm
Msg #215067
**I THOUGHT I was dealing with professionals.**
Be realistic, LC.
If you do not understand why this thread is not altogether kind and caring then you might want to consider sensitivity training so that you can broaden your understanding of how others may have different opinions than yours regarding having a dog at signing appointments.
I am 100% a dog person. I don't know how people live without one! I live with two dogs who are my constant companions. One sleeps with me...the little one, and I have also been known to grab him and give him a good bath while I am in the shower...while I find that completely efficient and normal, I can only imagine that a host of others just might think that is quite icky and gross. I will not be dismayed or discouraged simply because someone else doesn't think like I do. And, since I posted that little tidbit on this forum, I'd expect anyone to be able to give their opinion on it without getting my feelings hurt or being all indignant over it.
Some people have an inexplicable fear of dogs, large and small. Some have allergies, others just don't like animals in the house, period, just because they are animals...and I know this. I would say some on this board probably fit those categories and that doesn't make them less professional, simply because they do not have your frame of reference on dogs, or mine. Dogs are near human to me. Yet, I am well aware that other people think otherwise, and strongly so.
If someone calls you a name....let's say, ahem...uh..."dimwit" for instance, that could be considered unprofessional and childish, but just because people don't see things your way doesn't make them less than a professional.
Posting on this forum gives people the right to agree and disagree...it's a fact of life, not unkind or kind...it's just part of being a poster in an online community. If you aren't comfortable enough in your own skin to receive disagreeing counter-opinions without saying that people are unprofessional for having differing opinions than yours, then it's probably not a good idea to post because people are not always going to see things your way.
JMHO.
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Reply by LC/FL on 10/5/07 1:57pm
Msg #215075
Re: **I THOUGHT I was dealing with professionals.**
I dont expect people to see things my way, I do however expect civility and professionalism from that that claim to be.
Seriously I couldnt care less what anyone thinks of me or says about me, I just dont see the reason for the nastyness that I have seen on this board in the last few days. It has not only been directed at me!
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Reply by BrendaTx on 10/5/07 2:11pm
Msg #215078
Re: **I THOUGHT I was dealing with professionals.**
**I do however expect civility and professionalism from that that claim to be.**
Seriously...and I am not trying to be a smarty pants...Who has been uncivil or unprofessional in this thread?
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Reply by aatatusko on 10/5/07 2:00pm
Msg #215076
Brenda & Paw ~ where were you at 8:30am?
this thread obviously needed your 'cut to the chase' approach this morning, thanks as always for the ***professional *** posts!
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Reply by BrendaTx on 10/5/07 6:11pm
Msg #215132
My vote for best posters in the LC/FL drama thread...
RUNNER UP:
MaddieNJ for the basic question: What did you expect reactions to be??? (Sorry, don't have the exact words.)
FIRST PLACE:
PA Notary II for everything their post said...and,
Finally, an honorable mention for CaliNotary who can always sum up things in a way that make most people cringe but which always bears the kernel of truth whether we like to hear it or not.
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Reply by sue_pa on 10/5/07 2:19pm
Msg #215079
Re: Why did you start this thread in the first place?
I believe she started it because I asked this the other day.
I do thank her for coming forward and the subsequent lumps she has taken. This entire thread has been what I believe this board should be about - different situations and of course the different opinions (in this case probably some legalities also involved) on how to handle a situation - not like I saw last week some DIMWIT who didn't even know what the venue was. Good ideas and thoughts were presented on both sides.
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Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/5/07 2:23pm
Msg #215081
Re: Why did you start this thread in the first place?
I always thought I was pretty open-minded and professional. Boy, just when you think you know it all, someone pushes you off the totem pole.
I like everyone (just about), even if they don't agree with me. Even though I "eat my young" (quote from someone I don't want to name) , I learn alot on this board.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 11:08am
Msg #215019
Thank you. Its what I've been trying to say.
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Reply by MichiganAl on 10/5/07 12:39pm
Msg #215065
Liza, I think you're stretching the law beyond its limits
Unless your dog knows how to administer your asthma medicine, I can't see any reasonable scenario where someone with asthma requires a service animal. Even if your borrowers SAY they don't have a problem with it, they shouldn't be put in that position in the first place. When someone asks me if they can smoke, I say it's ok, but it doesn't mean I'm not furious. It's just being polite. Do your companies know you're doing this? I'd bet they don't, because if they did they would call someone else. Let's be honest, from this thread and others you seem to have a lot of drama in your life and several emotional concerns (I'm trying to say this in a nice way, not in a belittling way). The companies that hire us don't need all these issues. They've got a hundred notaries they can call. You're going to find it very hard to get steady work in this industry. But that's probably the least of your issues.
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Reply by PAW on 10/5/07 1:04pm
Msg #215068
First I will admit that I have not read through each and every post in this thread. However, from what I've read, I'm somewhat disgusted that a signing agent would even think of taking an animal with him/her without asking the borrowers permission. The American with Disabilities Act does NOT pertain to entering private homes. Only PUBLIC areas. Specifically, "Under the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA), privately owned businesses that serve the public, such as restaurants, hotels, retail stores, taxicabs, theaters, concert halls, and sports facilities, are prohibited from discriminating against individuals with disabilities. The ADA requires these businesses to allow people with disabilities to bring their service animals onto business premises in whatever areas customers are generally allowed."
So, even though you consider your pet as a "service animal" or not, you do not have the right to bring it with you to your closing. If your "disability" is that severe, then I suggest that you should not be doing loan signings, at least not in the borrowers homes.
Further, I even question that your pet is a service animal at all. The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal individually trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government. Legally speaking, therapy dogs are NOT "service dogs" and NOT entitled to the same benefits that service dogs are (entrance to any public building or transportation). Therapeutic services do not fall under the definition of a "service animal", according the ADA.
"Service animals perform some of the functions and tasks that the individual with a disability cannot perform for him or herself. "Seeing eye dogs" are one type of service animal, used by some individuals who are blind. This is the type of service animal with which most people are familiar. But there are service animals that assist persons with other kinds of disabilities in their day-to-day activities. Some examples include:
_____Alerting persons with hearing impairments to sounds.
_____ Pulling wheelchairs or carrying and picking up things for persons with mobility impairments.
_____Assisting persons with mobility impairments with balance."
You may want to contact a national organization that dispenses information about therapy dogs for more information, such as the Delta Society, 289 Perimeter Rd. East, Renton WA 98055-1329
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Reply by CF on 10/5/07 1:54pm
Msg #215074
Everybody needs to do what works for them. I would have no problem letting a disabled person into my home with a "service animal". I think that many people have been "out of line" on this topic. Borrowers are people too, and most would be understanding of a person with needs. This person is just trying to make a living, like the rest of us!
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Reply by BrendaTx on 10/5/07 2:23pm
Msg #215082
Everybody needs to do what works for them. ~~I agree!~~
I would have no problem letting a disabled person into my home with a "service animal".
~~Agree! Disabled or non-disabled...service or non-service animal!~~
I think that many people have been "out of line" on this topic.
~~WHO has been out of line? WHAT was said that was out of line?~~
Borrowers are people too, and most would be understanding of a person with needs. This person is just trying to make a living, like the rest of us! ~~IMHO, no one has been ugly to her...just honest about their own thoughts and opinions.~~
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Reply by Margaret_FL on 10/5/07 3:24pm
Msg #215096
Re: Bravo - Brenda
I am amazed at how much time people on this board have on their hands. I have been working all day and just got home. I usually get on the board once a day, now I will not waste my time. I can't afford to be sitting at the computer all day.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 5:22pm
Msg #215123
Brenda
One person told her to pull her head out of her a$$. I think that qualifies as out of line.
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Reply by BrendaTx on 10/5/07 5:57pm
Msg #215131
cj/or
**One person told her to pull her head out of her a$$. I think that qualifies as out of line.**
That was CaliNotary and, as you *know* and fail to acknowledge, he logged on a good bit after my post asking that question.
Prior to that there was nothing like that. However, given enough time in a thread you can always depend on CaliNotary to call it like he sees it in a thread.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 7:25pm
Msg #215150
Re: cj/or
No, I'm not saying that there was a lot of that. But, that could be considered a bit extreme. I think she's very sensitive. I think she's been through a lot of insensitivity (at the job), in society, etc. I do think the thread raised some interesting questions that many may not have thought about. There were some knee-jerk comments that were probably not thought out all that well. Some were flip and a few were intended to be light-hearted.
Hey. Can we call a truce?
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Reply by BrendaTx on 10/5/07 8:24pm
Msg #215156
Re: cj/or
**Hey. Can we call a truce?**
I will have to confer with my partner in the cabal, Sylvia, before I can make a decision like that. LOL, CJ, there's no truce needed. But, thank you for your gesture. I appreciate it...and truth is that I can't even remember much that you've said negative to me, except that one thing. And, believe it or not, that didn't even bother me.
I take very, very little from this forum personally. Now, if it were my son, or my sister, or my mother who said I was something undesirable, I'd feel that was pretty personal...but on this forum it's just about opinions and batting around things. You post and people will respond, bad, good, or indifferent. And, it's not like therapy around here. People are pretty direct.
Now, for those who want a polite board where no one can be snarky, then there's always EtiquetteHell.com....where you can only post about politeness, or the lack thereof! I don't post there...I've only heard about it from a friend.
So, anyhow, truce is accepted and I concede you have been most polite and gracious in that offer.
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Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/5/07 2:30pm
Msg #215084
Re: Signing Agent w/Disability - From Desperate Thread - CF
I doubt I would have a problem allowing a disabled person in my home with a service animal.
But it is up the homeowner to decide if they want to allow an animal, whether a service, therapeutic or whatever into their home. I won't be told that I have to allow someone in my home. If they enter my home, it is at my invitation.
I don't think anyone has been out of line, just voicing various opinions.
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Reply by Stoli on 10/5/07 3:00pm
Msg #215087
Poor dog!
Hiding the dog in a dark purse for the length of a signing is very unkind to the poor little dog. Hidden in a purse so the borrower(s) don’t see it? What if the borrower(s)’ dog, or cat acts aggressively toward the hidden dog? Isn’t this practice putting the poor little dog in harms way unnecessarily? I suspect some people react to the dander, even if the animal is clean. This feels like self indulgence, not a service.
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Reply by PAW on 10/5/07 3:00pm
Msg #215088
Personally, I wouldn't have any problem letting a person with a service or therapy dog in our house either. But to do so without permission, is what I find terribly wrong.
Please show me (and the others) where I, or anyone, has been "out of line".
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Reply by BetsyMI on 10/5/07 3:20pm
Msg #215093
Whew..longest thread ever? 112 replies in less than 8 hrs n/m
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 5:20pm
Msg #215122
Yes
You need to read the complete publication regarding Title II contained in the Federal Register AND the 1000 or so legal case reports ... it is a service animal covered by the ADA. It does not apply to private homes even though it is the normal place of business for NSA's. SS's cannot discriminate against her in hiring her but, if a borrower has a problem with it she should arrange for another notary.
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Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/5/07 4:18pm
Msg #215113
I'm curious, LC. What agency has designated your Chihuahua as a service animal? Did you get any documentation that you can display? Or did you just designate the dog yourself?
I have Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disorder -- COPD -- which is a combination of some of the worst aspects of emphysema, asthma, and bronchitis. I also have Lucy the Chihuahua. I'd love to be able to take her to grocery store and to movies with me, even to Taco Bell.
Who can I get to designate Lucy as a service dog?
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 5:25pm
Msg #215124
A physician ... n/m
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Reply by janCA on 10/5/07 5:51pm
Msg #215130
Signing with service dog
Last summer I had a signing where a service dog was present. It was a rotweiller (sp) 200 lbs, an absolutely huge dog. I cannot remember the medical condition of the borrower but what would happen was her legs would just give out on her. Never a warning but the dog would sense this and he was always there to break her fall. I found this fascinating. She also stated that there was much discrimination for service dogs as the general public is not educated on them. She was very surprised about his demeanor around me. He actually sat under the table on my feet. She said he usually will not come around strangers, especially in her home.
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 7:31pm
Msg #215152
Re: Signing with service dog
You know, I remember a news story about 6 months ago that researchers documented that dogs were able to "smell" cancer tumors. Now, I'm sure a bunch more testing will need to be conducted before anything is said that is definitive (kinda-sorta-possibly-maybe) but, apparently there are several cases where unrelated dogs continued to sniff (over several months) areas of their owners bodies where later there were discovered cancerous tumors.
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Reply by PAW on 10/5/07 6:17pm
Msg #215133
Technically, anyone can designate any dog as a service dog depending on local and state statutes. The ADA currently does not require formal designation. However, there are many organizations (some highly regarded) that will certify service animals. The following is an excerpt from "Service Dogs America" that lists the necessary qualifications for a service dog:
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Public Access Test for Qualification
Purpose: The purpose of this Public Access Test is to ensure that dogs that have public access are stable, well-behaved and unobtrusive to the public; that you have control over the dog; and that, as a team, you do not pose a public hazard.
Dismissal: Any dog that displays aggressive behavior (growling, biting, raising hackles, showing teeth, etc.) or exhibits uncontrollable behavior will not qualify as a Service Dog.
Bottom Line: Your dog demonstrates that he/she is safe to be in public, and you demonstrate that you have control of your dog at all times.
Commands: Commands may be given to the dog verbally, via hand signals, or a combination of the two.
1. Controlled unload out of vehicle: The dog must wait until released before coming out of the vehicle. Once outside, it must wait quietly unless otherwise instructed. The dog may not run around, be off lead or ignore commands. In short, the dog must be unloaded in the safest and most unobtrusive manner possible.
2. Approaching the building: The dog must stay in a relative heel position and may not forge ahead or lag behind. The dog must display relaxed attitude and exhibit no fear of cars or traffic noises. When you stop for any reason, the dog must also stop.
3. CONTROLLED ENTRY THROUGH A DOORWAY: Upon entering the building, the dog may not wander off or solicit public attention. The dog should wait quietly until both of you are fully inside, then should walk calmly beside you. The dog must not pull or strain against the lead or try to push its way past you, but must wait patiently while entry is completed.
4. HEELING THROUGH A BUILDING: Once inside the building, you and your dog must walk through the area in a controlled manner. The dog should always be within touching distance where applicable, or no greater than a foot away from you. The dog should not solicit public attention or strain against the lead. The dog must readily adjust to speed changes, turn corners promptly, and travel through crowded areas without interacting with the public. In tight quarters, the dog must be able to avoid obstacles and not knock over or play with merchandise.
5. SIX-FOOT RECALL ON LEAD: You will sit the dog, leave it, travel six feet, then turn and call the dog to you. The dog should respond promptly to the command and not stop to solicit public attention. The dog should come close enough to you to be easily touched. The command should be obeyed smoothly and deliberately, without trudging or taking detours.
6. SITS ON COMMAND: You should be able to have the dog sit. The dog must respond promptly each time, with no more than two commands, and no extraordinary gestures.
7. DOWNS ON COMMAND: The first down will be at a table where food will be dropped on the floor. Your dog should not break the down to go for the food or sniff at it. You may give verbal and/or physical corrections to maintain the down, but no extraordinary gestures. The second down will involve an adult and child approaching your dog. The dog should maintain the down and not solicit attention. If the child pets the dog, the dog must behave appropriately and not break the down. If the dog begins to break the down, you may give verbal and/or physical corrections.
8. NOISE DISTRACTION: Your dog may acknowledge the noise, but may not in any way show aggression or fear. A normal startle reaction is acceptable. The dog may jump or turn, but should quickly recover and continue along on the heel. The should not become aggressive, begin shaking, etc.
9. RESTAURANT: While you are seated at a table in a restaurant, your dog should go under the table or, if size prevents this, stay close by. The dog must sit or lie down and may move a bit for comfort from time to time, but should not be up and down frequently or require frequent correction or reminding.
10. OFF LEAD: If you drop the leash while moving so that it is apparent to the dog, you must show the ability to maintain control of the dog while retrieving the leash.
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Obviously, this is recommendation of the **dog's criteria** to be considered a service dog. The ADA defines a service animal as any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal _individually trained_ to _provide assistance_ to an individual with a disability. If they meet this definition, animals are considered service animals under the ADA regardless of whether they have been licensed or certified by a state or local government.
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Reply by MichiganAl on 10/5/07 6:51pm
Msg #215137
I have bunyons. Can I bring a dog with me to lick my toes?
I mean, how absurd can it get? A chihuahua for asthma? This is a 50 year old wive's tale that asthma can be transfered from a person to the chiuahua. No more legit than drilling a hole in someone's head to let out the demons. It's stuff like this that gives legitimately disabled people a bad rap.
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Reply by PA_NOTARY on 10/5/07 7:29pm
Msg #215151
Re: I have bunyons. Can I bring a dog with me to lick my toes?
you cracked me up on that comment. Personal experience would suggest taking herbs, watching your diet and a little research on co- dependance issues. This is not meant to be mean but the herb thing and accupressure worked for my 1 1/2 year old grand daughter within two weeks. If you need information pm me and I will give you information that; a standard doctor would not know this but an herbalist would..
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Reply by Pat/IL on 10/5/07 7:49pm
Msg #215154
Re: I have bunyons. Can I bring a dog with me to lick my toes?
Thank you all for a fascinating discussion! I have read every post on this thread and boy are my eyeballs tired! Some of you folks could be a little bit more pithy. From the point of view of a casual observer, by the way, I don't believe that LC/FL has suffered nearly the amount of vitriol that others have incurred on theis board. It certianly is not for the faint of heart, at times (not to mean offense to those with heart conditions).
While I really enjoyed most of the posts, I think Brenda's post about Jesus and the newbies was the best! Hey, I have just lengthened the longest post ever! Come to think of it, I could be a bit more pithy too. I have go go now to find the drill and drain the deamons from my brain, ha ha! Thanks again! What a way to spend a Friday evening!
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Reply by BrendaTx on 10/5/07 8:35pm
Msg #215158
Re: I have bunyons. Can I bring a dog with me to lick my toes?
**While I really enjoyed most of the posts, I think Brenda's post about Jesus and the newbies was the best!**
I can't take credit for that one...it's in the archives! And, it's just unforgettable in NR history.
This post of Al's might have made it to the top of my imaginary contest list, it just arrived too late for the imaginary judging...but it does give one pause to think.
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Reply by Linda_H/FL on 10/5/07 9:30pm
Msg #215177
Re: What I can't believe in this whole thread is that
everyone is still going on about it - except LC!!!...She's been gone for a while - or silent..
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Reply by CJ/OR on 10/5/07 10:16pm
Msg #215186
I can't believe you read the whole thing ... n/m
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Reply by BetsyMI on 10/6/07 8:38am
Msg #215214
139 replies..has there ever been a longer thread? n/m
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