Posted by Kristan Crawford on 10/9/07 7:27pm
Msg #215664

Smoking Borrowers

If you hate the smell of smoke blown in your face the way that I do, especially when a borrower insists on smoking at their signing, I always tell them I'm pregnant and they put it right out. I don't think it is my place to tell a borrower what they can and can't do in their own home but the smoke is nauseating! For the male SAs, this little trick wouldn't work so well

What do you do when borrowers insist on smoking at the closing table?

Reply by Linda Spanski on 10/9/07 7:32pm
Msg #215669

I cough and wheeze and suggest going outdoors.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/9/07 7:37pm
Msg #215671

Re: Smoking Borrowers~I let them, I don't smoke but

its their house and frequently they are pretty stressed over the loan as it is. I hate the smoke, I don't like smelling like an ashtray when I leave but I respect their home. Actually I like a really nice cigar every once in a while like maybe a couple of times a year after a particularly good meal, I don't know what it is. I even tried a pipe because I liked the smell of pipe tobacco but I don't like the taste. I suspect that a nice dessert wine tends to reduce the taste of the cigar. I guess for the guys if they lit a stogie while at the signing table, TV tray, lap board, when the others lit up it would probably put a quick stop to it. I don't know of too many smokers who actually tolerate cigars and in my experience it seems to be mostly women. I've never tried it and probably never will but its a consideration.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/9/07 7:52pm
Msg #215675

** I always tell them I'm pregnant and they put it right out.**

Kristan, I don't know you, but by your own words you have said that you are a liar, and one who will lie to control other people. That's a fact.

The rest of this is my opinion.

If you don't like what people do in their homes then you should find a job which doesn't require you to enter people's homes.

No one is forcing you to do this job.

While it may be rude for smokers to smoke around non-smokers, it is their right to be rude in their own homes. All you can do is to remove yourself from that situation if you find it too rude to stand.

We aren't like regular workers when we go into a person's home to perform a service. We have a choice to refuse that work. I would refuse in a heart beat if their behavior offended me. That would be my choice. A person's home is their home.

It's not all about you. It's about the business at hand. If you cannot tolerate the rudeness of smokers who are inconsiderate, then you should consider a different type of work which doesn't take you into another person's home. I am amazed at how signing agents do not get it that this is a courtesy service which we perform only because we offer a courtesy.

Draw the line if you don't like the smokers and do them and yourself a favor by telling your employing agencies and companies that you don't do signings for smokers.

Reply by Della Elswood on 10/9/07 8:12pm
Msg #215682

I agree with Charles ,I don't say anything unless they ask but then I tell them of course its their home.I am a reformed smoker and its terrible to have to breath the smoke but again its their home.
But unlike Charles I did not smoke cigars

Reply by Kristan Crawford on 10/9/07 8:13pm
Msg #215683

Gee Brenda, such harsh words from a fellow Texan, I'm disappointed. Please tell me where I can apply for a job that will pay me $70K a year working 25 hours a week, all the vacation I want, AND allow me to continue my full-time graduate work at William and Mary. I think I'd rather put up with the occasional smoker and keep the benefits this job has to offer. My comment was meant to be funny, not to offend. Another SA said she tells borrowers she has a foot fungus when they ask her to remove her shoes, don't forget to call her out on that too! It would only be fair.

Reply by LisaWI on 10/9/07 8:34pm
Msg #215688

Re: Dont Worry Everyone

In a few years non smokers will live on one side of the earth and smokers on the other. That will solve all the smoking issues that everyone has and it will be a peaceful earth.
Not to worry.
Then we can divide up the people who drink and after that we'll take care of the gamblers.
We'll all be segregated living happily ever after in our little pieces of mother earth.
I forgot to mention only the non smoking, drinking, gambling people will be able to have that little white picket fence around their homes. Cant have those with the people who drink, they might hurt themselves. The people who smoke can only live in brick homes, and the people who gamble cant have a job because they will spend it anyway.
After we take care of all this, it should be a perfect world, right??

Reply by jba/fl on 10/9/07 8:41pm
Msg #215691

too funny Lisa! n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/9/07 8:48pm
Msg #215694

Becca made it clear it was a joke.

I took your post seriously, the only joke being that the guys couldn't use the idea.

If you were kidding, I apologize, but I didn't see it as a joke. The idea that we have the right to put restrictions on the borrowers in their own homes isn't funny.

If they get out of line, I can always remove myself and accept the consequences of my choice.

**Please tell me where I can apply for a job that will pay me $70K a year working 25 hours a week, all the vacation I want, AND allow me to continue my full-time graduate work at William and Mary.**

Exactly. That's my point. If it weren't for the fact of comfort and convenience for the borrowers, there would be no such job.

Reply by CJ/OR on 10/9/07 9:03pm
Msg #215700

Sounds like y'all

Are craving a cig?

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/9/07 9:31pm
Msg #215714

Re: Sounds like y'all are stalking Brenda n/m

Reply by Becca_FL on 10/9/07 9:47pm
Msg #215721

CJ definitely seems obsessed with MKIA n/m

Reply by MichiganAl on 10/9/07 11:49pm
Msg #215742

MKIA, LOL! n/m

Reply by CJ/OR on 10/10/07 1:10am
Msg #215750

Who is MKIA? ... n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/10/07 6:27am
Msg #215760

Re: Who is MKIA? ...

MKIA = Mother Know it All. An anonymous poster tagged me with that name because they didn't agree with me.

Reply by CJ/OR on 10/10/07 7:08am
Msg #215764

Oh, ok. N/m n/m

Reply by MichiganAl on 10/10/07 9:55am
Msg #215798

But of course it's used now in the most affectionate way. n/m

Reply by CJ/OR on 10/9/07 9:00pm
Msg #215698

I thought it was just me

That you fought with. ;-)

Reply by jba/fl on 10/9/07 9:04pm
Msg #215701

Re: I thought it was just me: oh,plz, don't be so full of

yourself. Try some humility

Reply by Monica Valle-Cavero on 10/9/07 8:51pm
Msg #215695

I tell the borrowers I am allergic to smoke, which is true. I realize that I have been INVITED into their home and so as a GUEST I believe it is alright to tell them I cannnot be around smoke.

IE. I recently did a settlement where the borrowers were not smoking, however, there was still plenty of smoke (for the lack of a better term) lingering about. And as there was a ceiling fan going I began to have problems as the smoke was causing my eyes to water terribly. I had to stop for a few minutes while I cleared the tears runnig from my eye.

In my first paragraph, I say I say I was invited, this is also true as the borrowers opted to meet in their home rather than a title company or a restaurant or a coffee shop. If we, as setlements agents, are to do signings in the privacy of someone's home at their choice then it should not be a problem to ask them to stop or refrain from smoking. More power to you, Kristan

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/10/07 12:29am
Msg #215743

"I realize that I have been INVITED into their home and so as a GUEST I believe it is alright to tell them I cannnot be around smoke"

We are not invited guests to their home, we are there for business reasons. To think they should treat you the same way as they would as if they'd invited you for a Sunday barbecue is wrong.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/10/07 6:58am
Msg #215763

Re: Smoking Borrowers - Monica

"If we, as setlements agents"

When did we become Settlement Agents???

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/10/07 8:09am
Msg #215775

Re: Smoking Borrowers - Monica

**"If we, as setlements agents" When did we become Settlement Agents???**

Right on the mark, Sylvia. One of the problems of our industry which is so clear on this board is how far removed the "signing agents" are from the truth about what we do and what our function is.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/10/07 1:52pm
Msg #215826

Smoking Borrowers, nah, hard to light and don't draw well n/m

Reply by Julie/MI on 10/9/07 9:13pm
Msg #215707

It their home and if they smoke they smoke. Just goes with the turf.

I WAS truly pregnant until April, and I didn't expect folks to change their habits, so a few minutes of second hand smoke is NOT going to cause any harm to the baby/fetus.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 10/10/07 2:36am
Msg #215755

Effects of secondhand smoke on baby/fetus

I have to respectfully disagree with your position, Julie. While a few minutes (i.e., hour) of secondhand smoke may not be overly harmful to a fully formed (i.e., born) child, the effects of it on an unborn (still forming) child could be significant. A fetus breathes the exact same air as its mother, and when you think about the fact that tissue, brain cells, etc., are actually in their formative stages, it's easily possible that even a small amount of secondhand smoke could be dangerous.

When I was pregnant, if I drank a glass of orange juice, my daughter would quickly get hyper-active in the womb, presumably from the sugar. Given the potential of danger to the unborn baby, I think one can't be too careful. My opinion.

Reply by Lee/AR on 10/10/07 3:12am
Msg #215756

It's just amazing that...

the people who invented airplanes, TV, jets, computers, cell phones, put men in space, etc...
had any brain cells to do all this because nobody knew about all the dangers around us then.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/10/07 3:42am
Msg #215757

Re: Effects of secondhand smoke on baby/fetus

"it's easily possible that even a small amount of secondhand smoke could be dangerous."

No, it's really not easily possible. My mother smoked throughout all of her pregnancies, as did many many women at that time. And all of us came out perfectly healthy, as did most of the children born to smoking mothers.

No, I'm not advocating women continuing to smoke throughout their pregnancies, but come on, if 2 packs of unfiltered Lucky Strikes a day didn't do me any harm while I was in the womb, then breathing in the occasional secondhand smoke isn't going to harm a fetus. The human body has evolved into quite a sturdy and efficient filtering machine over the years. Unfortunately society has also evolved into a fearmongering, handwringing, overprotective that cares more about political correctness than it does about protecting the freedoms that made this country so great to begin with.

You breathe in a heck of a lot more toxic stuff walking through an enclosed parking structure filled with hundreds of running cars than you do by standing near a person smoking a cigarette, but I have yet to see a single public service announcement about the dangers of that activity. Why? Because there's no money in it. A lot of people have gotten very very rich and powerful by scaring people about smoking.

Reply by LisaWI on 10/10/07 7:25am
Msg #215769

Re: Right On CaliNotary!

"Unfortunately society has also evolved into a fearmongering, handwringing, overprotective that cares more about political correctness than it does about protecting the freedoms that made this country so great to begin with."

That was exactly the point I was trying to convey in my post.

I happen to agree with both sides here, Brenda and the original poster and feel if someone has a problem with this, they could tactfully let the borrowers know without offending anyone or taking away their right to do what they choose in their own home. There could be compromise. A smile with honesty goes a long way with just about everyone.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 10/10/07 11:31am
Msg #215804

Lee and Cali...

I totally understand your point, and could name a few examples, myself. However, there's no way to tell the level of harm, if any, that may have been done in any of those examples. Many of us are old enough to have had significant exposure to DDT (for example), as well, but we don't go on exposing ourselves, or our children, to it.

MY point is that we endeavor to give our children the best start: eating right, etc, during pregnancy, because we are more aware than ever of outside influences on the womb. In my mind, this includes paint fumes, orchard spray (I live in fruit valley, USA), secondhand smoke, and yes, car exhaust. While none of these are completely avoidable, it's worth the attempt, IMO.

Reply by cal2az on 10/11/07 5:04pm
Msg #216075

Re: Effects of secondhand smoke on baby/fetus

"Because there's no money in it. A lot of people have gotten very very rich and powerful by scaring people about smoking."

Did you not see the senate hearings with the tabacco bigwigs in the hot seat? They, the tabacco industry. made lots more billions denying smoke harmed anyone, while holding reports in their hands that it did!

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/10/07 7:11am
Msg #215765

**It their home and if they smoke they smoke. Just goes with the turf.**

Exactly. It's the "turf" we work in.

If they let their kids climb all over me, I'll tolerate it as best I can, if there's dog poo everywhere, I can tolerate it or get up and leave.

If they aren't jerks and ask, "Mind if I smoke?" that's a pretty good indicator they want to smoke...if they don't even ask, then they're just creeps...the signing agent can either deal with it, or leave. JMHO.

If you don't want to deal with plumbing, don't be a plumber, if you don't want to be around horses, don't work on a horse ranch...if you don't want to deal with jerks...being a signing agent probably isn't a good business to be in. The jerks are plentiful.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/9/07 11:15pm
Msg #215739

I have no qualms asking a borrower to delay smoking in my presence until the closing is over. I suffer from COPD, and being around tobacco smoke for me is almost as bad as being around my ex-mother-in-law.

Both host and guest have responsibilities. It is, for example, the responsibility of the host not to slap me, stomp me, pinch me, or otherwise impair my well-being whether it is through a physical attack or the injection of a noxious substance into air that I must breathe. It is my responsibility to see that I don't do anything to invite such behavior. Simply being in someone's residence does not qualify as an invitation to abuse.

The attutude that simply because you are conducting a business transaction in someone's home, any behavior on the part of the occupant thereof within the premises must be accepted is ridiculous. What if the homeowner elects to let his dogs run loose, and the dogs have a propensity to pee on a guest's leg? Or elects to spray for the abundant roaches using DDT? Should you sit quietly by and just say, "Sign right here where it's highlighted. Gee, Rover, you sure have a b-i-g bladder?"

If a homeowner is going to embark upon an activity that is widely recognized as injurious to the health of others, and especially injurious to the health of some people, then of course any person conducting business in that home has the right to speak up. If the homeowner doesn't wish to cease, then the guest has the choice of continuing, or leaving the premises. I would have no reservations whatsoever about terminating a signing under such circumstances. I haven't had to do so, because most people are courteous, and when I have asked them to refrain, all have done so. And have done so without making an issue of it.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/10/07 1:14am
Msg #215752

This entire discussion has been miscast. The fundamental issue is not what responsibilities a guest has toward a host, or parent has to a child, or a manager has to a subordinate. The issue is what one human being owes to another.

It seems to me that, whatever the venue, when a person wants to pursue an activity that can harm another -- and in the case of tobacco smoke, that result is not only well-documented, the knowledge of it is widely disseminated -- common decency requires that he seek the permission of the person who is going to be negatively impacted. Further, since he is the one who is proposing the harmful action, he should be prepared to abide by the request of the other party.

If a homeowner doesn't ask, then anyone -- whether it's the plumber under the sink, the meter reader, the next-door neighbor in for coffee and cake, or a signing agent -- has every right to ask the homeowner to cease. And, as I said earlier, if the homeowner is such a jerk that he refuses, then the SA is quite within his rights to pack up and leave the homeowner to his own devices and vices -- as are the plumber, the meter reader, and the neighbor.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/10/07 3:50am
Msg #215758

"And, as I said earlier, if the homeowner is such a jerk that he refuses, then the SA is quite within his rights to pack up and leave the homeowner to his own devices and vices -- as are the plumber, the meter reader, and the neighbor."

That's one side of the argument. The other side is that if a person is such a jerk that they're going to walk into somebody's house and tell that homeowner what they should or shouldn't be doing in the privacy of their own home then the homeowner is quite within his rights to tell the SA to pack up and leave.

You make choices in life. Breathing in coal mine dust ain't exactly healthy, but there are still people who make a career out of doing it. When you choose to be in a profession that takes you into people's homes you need to accept all that goes along with it. To expect people to change their behavior in their homes to suit your desires is the height of presumptuousness.

Human decency also involves the understanding that not everybody lives their lives as you do yours and not trying to impose your will on those people. If you don't like it, don't put yourself in the situation to begin with, problem solved.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/10/07 6:46am
Msg #215761

CaliNotary said this exactly as I feel, only better than I

could have said it.

We can walk out of our own free will if they are being jerks. I think I've only had to consider that a couple of times because I have a pretty high tolerance and don't perceive everything I do not like as a personal assault against me or my beliefs...not their housekeeping, not their personal habits, not their differences in culture. Like Bob/Chicago has said, you can leave and go back to a nice life, those people have to live like jerks forever.

When we stop being a courtesy service and start putting demands on borrowers--even jerky ones-- and that's the day that we are no longer a courtesy service there for the borrower's convenience.

I like going into a home and making them feel as if they have gotten a valuable service which didn't create any more stress than necessary. In/out...get 'er done: "who was that masked woman???"

And on the other end of the spectrum there are some people who are self-important windbags who don't know when to shut up and exhaust and offend even the most lonely elderly borrower, some people like to make a big production out of being a traveling notary and staying as long as possible to dominate the appointment time; some like to put constraints on others inside their own homes because they don't have control over other people in their life and they desperately desire it. At that point their appointments have turned into anything but a convenience to the borrowers but a situation which must be endured.

One problem with the entire industry is that many signing agents have a total disconnect from the way a title company conducts business within their own walls as far as customer service is carried forth. Title companies in Texas are the most gracious businesses I know of to the clients (borrowers) of their own clients (lenders). As an extension of that I desire to be equally as gracious and unobtrusive as possible when I am in the home of the borrowers.

Different strokes for different folks.

Reply by Barb/MO on 10/10/07 7:54am
Msg #215773

I agree with CaliNotary and Brenda. n/m

Reply by cal2az on 10/10/07 4:06am
Msg #215759

We are not "guests" we are on assignment

I wholeheartedly agree with HNSA of Austin. CaliNotary, I think, also makes an excellent point.

We are not there as guests. We are on assignment. Performing the work the assignment calls for, and the borrower's home just happens to be the job-site and workplace, for the duration of the assignment.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 10/10/07 8:54am
Msg #215783

I think this can easily be solved

For those that are a bit confused about their role in the signing process OR the rights of the bo's in their own home:

List on your profile YOUR requirements, i.e. available for non-smoking homes ONLY, no pets please, no children and of course the ever popular...no unsanitary homes.

For the record, if you come into my home where I'm going to pay you hard earned money to perform a service AND you decide to tell me what I can and cannot do...be prepared to pack up and leave. I definitely will not pay redraw fees and I'm betting you won't get paid trip fees.

Reply by slknotary on 10/10/07 9:08am
Msg #215787

Re: I think this can easily be solved

Another way it can be easily solved it to put yourself in the borrower's shoes. How would you like it if someone came to your home and dictated your actions? I know I wouldn't like it.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/10/07 10:00am
Msg #215799

Re: I think this can easily be solved

**Another way it can be easily solved it to put yourself in the borrower's shoes. **

You are so right, slknotary, but the problem is that our world is full of people who are lacking in empathy, feel a strong sense of entitlement to have what they want...only understand their own likes and dislikes...they want people to comply with their needs and don't give a rat's patooty about putting themselves in another's skin...just please, me, me, me.

It's narcissism run amok!

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/10/07 11:14am
Msg #215802

I agree with HNSA of Austin

Cannot narcissism apply to both sides? I don't think there is any "turf" that is immune to some expectations on both sides. What if the borrower likes to walk around in the buff or watch hardcore porn or beat their spouse in the privacy of their home? Do you ignore their nudity, the VCR with the porn flick on the counter? Do you ask the plumber in and there's dog or cat feces in front of the sink and expect him to clean it up before he starts? Do you allow your toddlers to play on top of the plumber or walk away with his tools thinking it is cute. If doctors made house calls, would he allow one to blow smoke in his face, kids in his lap or rifling through his medical bag. I think not. It's called respect, which is lacking in our society, not narcissism. Is this an industry that does not require respect just because you are going into one's home? Is the home a sanctuary from respect of others that are paid to come in?

Reply by bigdog on 10/10/07 12:01pm
Msg #215813

As a smoker...

I leave my cigs in the car. If the Bo's smoke, they smoke. I have been invited to smoke at the table with them. I choose not to because I feel that it's not professional of me to do so.

That said, this country has bashed smokers relentlessly for several years now. You want the smoking to stop, but you want the tax revenue that it brings in. Hypocrisy at it's finest. Every year that passes I see more and more government regulations that take one more of our rights away and as long as some minority/majority approves, then it's gotta be ok. Until the day that it hits you. "You are no longer allowed to purchase an SUV as it is harmful to the environment." " You can only read this newspaper as everything else is just lies." Or how about " You must accept that which is against your religion because it has been accepted by others."

Where does it end? At what point are people going to stop trying to force their will on every one else? Socialism anyone? Dictatorship? Communism? Anyone?

As has been said before, if you don't want to subject yourself to cigarette smoke, it's your choice. It is also the choice of the BO to smoke a cigarette if he chooses in his own home. IT isn't illegal YET to smoke in your own home. If you ask me politely not to smoke around you, I won't. But by george if you demand it, well let's just say goodbye and be on your way because NO ONE comes into MY house and DEMANDS anything from me.

If this message offends you, my apologies. I have strong opinions about my rights to use a legal product. If you want smokers to go away, just ban cigarettes entirely. Then I will have to quit along with every other smoker.

Reply by Marlene/USNA on 10/10/07 1:29pm
Msg #215822

Your rights vs. my rights

"At what point are people going to stop trying to force their will on every one else?"

I've never understood why smokers use this argument when they are, in effect, forcing their will to smoke on me, a non-smoker.

I don't care if you smoke in your home, your car, in a place of business you own or that solicits smoking, I don't care if you spend way too much money on cigarettes or invite cancer into your life or drive up health insurance premiums (most of us contribute to that in one way or another - overeating, overdrinking, heredity, accidents, etc.).

When I was a smoker, I didn't smoke in public - I didn't assume I had the right to. Most smokers don't understand that.

Marlene, definitely NOT speaking for USNA

Reply by cal2az on 10/11/07 4:51pm
Msg #216073

Re: Your rights vs. my rights

Hear, hear. My husband, who is down to one pack from two a day, is just like you. And that I respect.

My sister on the other hand, love her soul, thinks if, in her words: I f...g wants to smoke" I will smoke. If you don't like it, step outside, even if it is an airplane on flight, when smoking was allowed in planes.

My husband thinks: I can't live without it, but if you can't live with it, I can respect that, since I am the one who has control of "my smoking" I will not force this one you.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/11/07 5:09pm
Msg #216077

Re: Your rights vs. my rights - cal2az between this post

and the PM you sent me, your sister sounds like an inconsiderate a$$.

Reply by cal2az on 10/11/07 3:49pm
Msg #216058

Re: I agree with HNSA of Austin



I got to get some work so I have something to do other than read these very funny posts!

Reply by cal2az on 10/11/07 3:47pm
Msg #216057

Re: I think this can easily be solved

You are so right. I would not like it either if someone came into my home and dictated to me.

My husband who is a heavy smoker, would never dream of imposing his "will" to smoke or "dictating" that his smoke be tolerated, to someone who came to perform a job in our home, and who is doing it with our prearranged agreement and consent.

He is like most smokers - considerate and understanding of the fact that although he can't live without smoke, he is aware some can't live with it.

I think it not is a matter of inflicting one's will or dictating anything to anyone. It's simply sensitivity, courtesy, and consideration.

Reply by cal2az on 10/10/07 6:35pm
Msg #215872

Re: I think this can easily be solved

Hi Sue,

I have never, nor would I ever dictate to anyone, their home or mine.

In over four years, the few smokers I’ve run into have been very considerate about first asking if it would bother me if they smoked. I explain that I have an allergy (a serious one) that my face swells up and my eyes may close up and I will go to the next signing looking like the elephant man. They laugh and don’t light up. I apologize and tell them I’ll try to make it quick.

Only one woman has ever lit up without asking me whether it bothered me. Since, we were about half done with the signing, I told her about my allergy-elephant-metamorphic transformation, but I thought I could manage to finish.

Her teen-aged daughter came in saying she wanted to get something to eat, but first told the borrower: “Mom, the kitchen is full of smoke, put out your cigarette.” The mother yelled back at her that if she didn’t like it, to get the hell out.

Her attitude had nothing to do with smoking; she was just plain rude.

Also, borrower made the agreement with the Broker/Title/SS, to conduct business in her home. Thereby making it a work-place. My contract is not with the borrower, but with the SS, they pay me, or not.

I don’t see the need to make non-smoking an issue with the SS or other borrowers, over just one rude person out of hundreds.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 10/10/07 1:25pm
Msg #215821

When a borrower conducts a business transaction in their home it becomes a public place and no smoking allowed. I ask the borrower to put out the cigarette or tell them we have to go someplace else to close loan. Never had a problem, be firm and strong, I have lung disease from sitting in cigarette smoke, your lungs should be precious to you.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/10/07 1:34pm
Msg #215823

**When a borrower conducts a business transaction in their home it becomes a public place and no smoking allowed.**

ROFL.

While it oughta be that way, it's not.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 10/10/07 1:41pm
Msg #215824

This entire thread is unreal

I am shocked at the amount of BS going on in this thread. I'm with BigDog, I too am a smoker but I am what I like to call a respectful smoker. That being said I wouldn't let any of you dictate to me in my home due to any BS that has been blown up your skirt. Fat people are more prone to heart attack, diabetes and a number of other ailments that cost me, the taxpayer to support. Should you stop eating huge plates of food at the cafe (along with your diet coke) because I don't want to watch you kill yourself and my pocketbook? Catholics have this real issue with birth control, should we ban you from sleeping together because you're contributing to over population of this earth? See how completely stupid this thread is??? This is about YOU coming into MY home and telling ME how to act. If you're on oxygen more power to you for earning a living BUT pick and chose what you do. If you've got an ailment and can't be around smoke, GET INTO ANOTHER VOCATION. Pointing your finger at a homeowner who smokes inside his own 4 walls and calling him disrespectful leads me to wonder just who in the heck are you? Sheesh...

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/10/07 1:52pm
Msg #215825

Re: This entire thread is unreal

LOL, Sue...I wonder where some of these ideas come up from too. Lotta funny ideas about how things oughta go in a person's home.

IMHO part of the trouble is an employee mentality. "I am entitled to a safe workplace."

Nope. You are an independent contractor. Like it, lump it, and/or leave if you don't like the conditions.

People oughta be respectful, but they aren't a good deal of the time.

Reply by MistarellaFL on 10/10/07 1:55pm
Msg #215828

Re: This entire thread is unreal

You've got that right, Sue et. al.
No one will dictate to me what to do in my home, however, if someone shows up and kindly asks me not to smoke (or whatever) I will kindly oblige.
Methinks the ones who think they are in a position to tell homeowners what they can or cannot do in the privacy of their own home should get somewhere far, fast.
It is all about respect in my eyes. And when I am in the home or business of another, I will respect their wishes, and when I fee I cannot....well, I am out the door.
If you cannot respect me when you are in mine, don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

Reply by WDMD on 10/10/07 2:03pm
Msg #215830

Re: This entire thread is unreal

You could tie this thread to the one with the "service animal". Same concept ( homeowners rights). This one has a long way to go as far as number of messages though. LOL

Reply by SueW/Tn on 10/10/07 2:21pm
Msg #215832

Ackkkk WDMD I wish you hadn't gone there BECAUSE

Years ago I worked for a houseboat marina in Indiana and they had a strict no pet clause in their rental contract. Some folks came and rented a houseboat and of course they beached the boat in a quiet cove and took their lab aboard. No problem right? Well, the next renters of that boat has serious allergies with respect to dogs and believe it or not it turned into a 911 call because the lady's throat closed and she couldn't breath. A lawsuit later made the owners of the marina responsible and they had huge medical bills to pay not to mention punitive damages. Nearly bankrupt my boss SO sneaking an animal anywhere could be one heck of a liability.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/10/07 2:24pm
Msg #215834

Re: This entire thread is unreal

Exactly, WDMD. The best part about this thread is if a title company reads it there'll be another few removed from their contractor list permanently for having a skewed view of reality where the borrowers' homes are concerned.

Reply by snoopdogMs on 10/11/07 7:22am
Msg #215917

The reality of success

Interesting comment here. If the title companies are selecting their notaries based on the content of some of the ideas and responses (professional and unprofessional) at some point all would probably be culled. My success is gauged by title companies using my services and calling me back for repeat business because of well executed closings and pleased borrowers. They are looking for confident, competent and people friendly notaries that they don't have to clean up after. Records speak for themselves be it mine or anyone else on this forum.

Reply by Dawn/PA on 10/10/07 2:27pm
Msg #215835

Re: This entire thread is unreal

WOW.....this certainly has sparked some discussion. In all honesty, I believe (naively perhaps) that most people are courteous of others in their home. I personally would never demand someone to not smoke, however if there was porn playing on the kitchen counter or someone was physically abusing someone, then that would be a different story. Yes, there are people with health concerns that shouldn’t/don’t want to be around smokers, but I feel that is the risk they are taking by performing a service in someone’s home. Personally speaking, I am more offended by stinky cat boxes – had one house they must have had 15 cats and the ammonia smell got to me – so bad that hours later I could still “taste” it in the back of my throat and to top it off, there was a 6 month old in the room! Talk about offensive. In this line of work, at some time or another, we will be in a house that we find “objectionable” for whatever reason and as Independent Contractors we must choose whether or not to continue with the commitment that we made. JMHO.

Reply by christiSocal on 10/10/07 4:37pm
Msg #215847

don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

LOL, never heard that one before Misty. I love it!
As far as the smoking issue goes, even if they're not smoking at that moment, the smell permeates thruout the house. So you're breathing it one way or the other! Personally, I grin and bare it, and get'er done as quickly as poss. Then go on with my life...

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/10/07 3:39pm
Msg #215840

Interesting

Don't know how the are going to enforce this - and I am of the belief that a man's home (whether house, apartment or condo) is his castle.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300658,00.html

Reply by kate_nortca on 10/10/07 4:05pm
Msg #215841

I think there is really only one thing you can do here and that is be as gracious and polite as possible. Instead of being really conversational and friendly as I normally would I assume a more efficient demeanor and try to get through the signing quickly without rushing. I try my very hardest not to be impatient at all even if I cannot breathe. After all if it were not for that borrower I might be home channel surfing.

Kate

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/10/07 10:18pm
Msg #215905

It belies commonsense that any activity is permissible in a person's home, regardless of who else is occupying the space at the same time.

What if the borrower prefers nudity at all times, including during a real estate transaction? His home, his castle?

What if children frequent the premises? His home, his nudist colony?

What if he chooses to scream obscenities at the signing agent? His home, his choice of language?

What if a borrower begins whispering suggestive proposals for activities after the signing? His home, his choice of behavior?

What if he likes to use the bathroom, and doesn't want to be confined by any closed doors? His home, his choice of privacy options?

Signing agents are a courtesy service to homeowners. To transmogrify that principle into the bizarre requirement that a signing agent must find another occupation if the agent is unwilling to accept deliberate discourtesies from a signer takes common business ethics down a remarkably weird path.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/11/07 12:46am
Msg #215913

Most people, including smokers, behave in a civil, socially acceptable manner when they have people in their house.

But as for the examples you gave, yes, it's his home, he can run around naked, he can use the restroom with the door open, he can use whatever language he wants. We have no right to tell them how to behave, we only have the right to decide whether we are or aren't willing to endure it.

If you don't like it you leave, you don't try to dictate their behavior. Then they have to choice as to whether they'll put on pants, tone down the language, shut the bathroom door, or whether they'll not get their documents signed that evening.

It's not like this type of thing is unique to the signing industry. There are a lot of jobs that require you to put up with deliberate discourtesies if you want to stay in business or keep your job. Try being a concierge at a 5 star hotel, or a personal assistant to a Hollywood power player, or running a wedding planning business with that attitude and see how long until you're unemployed.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/11/07 6:32am
Msg #215916

Not that it matters, but this entire discussion reminds me of teaching a five year old boy how to behave in Kindergarten many years ago. This beautiful child with the big blue eyes was getting in trouble for hitting classmates for seemingly no good reason.

Being new at being his step-mom and being of the belief that if you could understand why the child was misbehaving you could reason with him (sometimes effective, sometimes not LOL) I simply asked my step-son why he was hitting his friends, he replied very genuinely, "Because they were bothering me."

And, being the baby of the family and his neighborhood that was how he had been navigating life. (You irritate me and I'll hit you and holler for Mom who will make you stop.)

He had an immature sense of entitlement to defend himself against bothersome habits of others because he was so cute and no one paid much attention to his little fits at home. However, in the real world our little boy wasn't so cute or special or important; he had to learn where his personal boundaries ended and others began.

As he integrated into Kindergarten life without baby-of-the-family rights and entitlements it was a tough lesson to comprehend that he couldn't control the rest of the world by demanding they acquiesce to his person comfort and wishes...he had to learn that sometimes you just have to shrug it off, remove yourself and walk away....that, or spend a lot of time frustrated and alone in time out.

Misinterpreting personal boundaries is an issue with many people. Sometimes they do not understand that another person's space is where the five-year-old's personal boundaries end and another's begin. You go inside those boundaries and that's where that other person calls the shots...if the shots are called so that they offend, then you protect your own personal boundaries by leaving, not by imposing your requirements on others.

Sometimes kids who aren't raised in the best of circumstances have trouble understanding why they can't take by force whatever they want, why they can't demand what they desire, why they can't demand certain behaviors from others, and why others are so frustrating in general. If they haven't seen adults respecting others (like a jerky smoker-borrower would demonstrate) then they have problems understanding the difference between what they personally want and what the world is required to provide for them (which is nothing).

That guy who wrote about learning everything you need to know in Kindergarten wasn't that far off.

Reply by cal2az on 10/11/07 12:34pm
Msg #216004

When this borrowers agreed with the broker/title/lender to conduct the signing in their come - they extended those bounderies you speak of. If so important to them - then they could say to he broker/lender/title at that point that they want the signing somewhere other then their home. Because it is their castle and they want to smoke there. Silly isn't it.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 10/11/07 8:58am
Msg #215925

This discussion now has morphed into one in which some posters claim others are purportedly of the mindset that they should be able to force a homeowner to do their bidding. That has never been the issue. The issue has been whether a signing agent is expected to sit quietly by, without comment, when a homeowner lights up.

I don't think that is expected of an agent, or of anyone else. I think the agent has the right, and in cases where it is injurious to his health, the personal responsibility, to ask that the homeowner not smoke -- just as the agent has the right to ask the homeowner to curb other uncivil behaviors if they impact him.

If the homeowner is unwilling to forego smoking in the agent's presence, then obvously the agent is confronted with two choices: Accept the boorish behavior, or leave. That hardly constitutes forcing anyone to do anything.

In the five years I've been doing this, I've had only a handful of signers who were so inattentive (I don't think any of them were being deliberately discourteous) that they lit up without asking first. And I've never had any of them refuse to stub it out or take it elsewhere.

That approach hasn't seemed to hurt. My closings have grown at a steady 20 percent or thereabouts each year (quite a bit more now than I actually wanted in retirement) and revenues have increased each year from 20 percent to 65 percent.

Reply by BetsyMI on 10/11/07 10:02am
Msg #215939

I've never had a bwr even ask if I minded them smoking

and although I do, I've never said a word. I just 'keep on trucking' and get through the signing as quickly as possible. I find it strange that in almost four years not one smoking borrower has ever said "do you mind if I smoke?".

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/11/07 10:28am
Msg #215953

Re: I've never had a bwr even ask-----------???

**I've never said a word. I just 'keep on trucking'
and get through the signing as quickly as possible.**

What's that Betsy????

You don't tell them you're pregnant so they'll
feel guilty and put it out to accommodate you???
(Referring to the beginning post that started
this thread. You, like me, would probably have
trouble convincing them we were pregnant, lol.)

I have had both kinds of borrowers...the jerky
smokers who light up with indifference and the
smokers who ask. I don't care either way.

It's a hazard of this type of work to encounter
smokers in their homes where people can and do
smoke...only about 4% of the time it's even
a factor.

Reply by Blueink_CA on 10/11/07 10:38am
Msg #215960

Re: I've never had a bwr even ask-----------???

I had a guy that kept disappearing during the signing. I realized he was going to the garage to smoke. Since I wanted to get the job done (sometime that night), I remarked that smoking didn't bother me if he wanted to smoke at the table. Luckly, I don't run into this problem much. Most people in CA don't smoke, or hide it pretty well.

BTW, my husband was a heavy smoker for many years. He quit 5 months ago using Chantix. I couldn't believe it - something actually works!

Reply by bigdog on 10/11/07 10:40am
Msg #215961

Exactly Hugh. That's all any of us are saying. But some of you have this mentality that you can force your will on a BO in their home. As I stated above, if you ask nicely, I'll be nice back. Do unto others if you will. I have a sister in law who is allergic to cigarette smoke, when she comes over, I smoke outside. If I'm at her house, I go outside. Smokers as a rule are not the uncuth barbarians some would like to make us out to be.

Bottom line, if you find yourself in a situation in a BO home, that is unbearable, simply remove yourself from the situation. But DO NOT think you have some right to go into their home and dictate what they can and cannot do. Just as you have a right to choose not to be around smoking, the BO has a right to show you the door. You are not entitled to do business with that person. You are not entitled to anything other than your right to choose what your reaction will be when faced with situations that are to your dislike. What is your breaking point? What can you tolerate?

I had a signing many months ago, where two domestic partners were splitting and one wanted his portion of the equity in the home they shared. The one keeping the property was taking out a new loan to accommodate. Upon arrival at their home, the first BO was in his underpants barely covering, well you can guess the rest of that, he was rude as heck, started cussing when he was told he had to give me a copy of his drivers license. Called me a liar when I told him he had a message on his answering machine to the effect. Cussed me a blue streak and told me to get out of his house which I was already on my way putting the documents away to do just that. I told him I didn't have to take that kind of abuse and wasn't going to. His former partner settled him down and before I got out the door, he said let's get this done. Never appologized for his behavior, never put pants on, never showed any common courtesy. I decided to do the signing. I finished the signing and sent in the papers and still haven't received payment for that signing 5 months later even though I know that it closed. The thing is, I made a choice, it was my decision, I didn't dictate to the BO what he could and couldn't do. Should I have left? Hind sight says yes. But at the time I did what I thought was best. The SS told me from the get go that this guy was a bear so I knew going in it wasn't going to be an easy job, but I had no idea just how bad it would be. Bottom line, I took the job and decided to finish the job that I was hired to do. As in any business, you have the right to turn business away if it's not what you want. But you don't have the right to tell the BO what he can and cannot do in his own home.

Reply by cal2az on 10/11/07 1:22pm
Msg #216025

OK. Too much time on my hands

In my experience, of the few who ask to smoke, 99% of them, ask if it's ok to light up. I then say I have a serious allergy (which I do), but will try to make it quick if they can wait. Always they wait.

This is not "telling someone what to do in their home" they chose to wait.

In the minute% who do not ask. I state I have an allergy, but if they CAN NOT put cigarette out, I'll try to finish. This is not going into someone's home and inflicting "your will" on them.

When they agreed with the broker/title/lender to conduct business in their home, they greed to make it a workplace. It was their decision to make it a work place.

Reply by Dawn/PA on 10/11/07 4:04pm
Msg #216060

Well said, bigdog.... n/m