Posted by Mystic on 10/27/07 5:34pm
Msg #218601

What can I do about another notary's refusal to serve ME?

Today I took a doc to a local UPS store that I needed to have notarized. The notary there wrote my name and address and then asked for my phone number. I guess I was being feisty, but I said I didn't want to give my phone number and that it is not required anyway. He said 'yes, it is right here in the journal' and pointed to the id column, but of course there was no notation about a phone number in the column heading. I asked why he needed the numbers and he said it was in case there is a problem down the road he can contact me. I said I don't have to give my phone number and did not wish to give my number, and he then said he didn't feel comfortable notarizing for me and to find another notary. I went outside, very irritated, but came back in right away, because I know it is the DUTY of a notary to notarize when asked, and legally he cannot refuse to do so. When I told him this he said he didn't care and he could do whatever he wanted. My friend, who came in with me, asked him why he needed a number and said it was in case problems come up later. I asked what kind of problems can come up later that require the phone number. He said sometimes people ask for journal entries and if they do, he likes to call the person who signed to ask them if it is ok. I said he doesn't have to notify anybody about a journal entry copy, he just has to provide it when asked. He again invited me out of his store and to find another notary. I am VERY angry and am going to write to the secretary of state and the UPS headquarters (not only is he a NOTARY, but he is the owner of the store, apparently this gives him more rights and priveleges than the average notary) and will copy him on any letters, but I wonder if anyone else has any suggestions of anything else I can do. It is illegal for him to refuse. Is this something that I could report to the police? I don't know what to do besides reporting him to the secretary of state. He is wrong in two cases, requiring a phone number and refusing to notarize when requested, since I DID provide suitable ID.

Reply by CJ on 10/27/07 6:38pm
Msg #218605

He does sound like an irritating idiot, but for me, my cell phone is floating all over the nation and I don't see the problem with one more person having it. I don't think he sits up at night crank-calling people, and if he does, I can always hang up on him.

Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/27/07 6:42pm
Msg #218606

I personally think that you should let it go. Don't worry about it. Why get angry? There are more things in life more important than getting all worked up about it. You were inconvenienced, that's all.

Reply by Julie/MI on 10/27/07 7:14pm
Msg #218613

Little cranky today?

Love my state, I can refuse to notarize for crabby people or any other people if I want to.

I don't think the request for a phone number is an unreasonable one. Maybe not required in your state, but so the notary wants a contact number. Big deal!

Reply by Bob_Chicago on 10/27/07 7:17pm
Msg #218614

Next time it happens , do what I do when asked for a Phone #

for an in store credit card charge.
Sure, it's 555-1212. Have a nice day

Reply by Loretta Reed on 10/27/07 8:09pm
Msg #218617

Re: Next time it happens , do what I do when asked for a Phone #

That's what I thought, Bob. I could give them my ex's phone number.

Reply by BrendaTx on 10/27/07 9:53pm
Msg #218622

Had I been the notary at the UPS store

I would have simply explained it that it was a matter of UPS store policy because that is obviously what it is. The UPS store I use for notary work requires a phone number.

They have every right to require a phone number when they do it at their UPS store, IMHO.

Reply by Joan Bergstrom on 10/28/07 12:07am
Msg #218639

Re: Had I been the notary at the UPS store

This owner in Calif is a "Public Servant" and he cannot refuse a notarization because someone won't provide a phone number.

Whatever UPS policy on providing a telephone number is a non issue in Calif.

He has to notarize the document, if you have the fee to pay plus ID and the document is complete without any blank lines.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/28/07 1:30am
Msg #218641

Re: Had I been the notary at the UPS store

Exactly. This is another state-specific issue and this guy clearly did not comply with state law. I always ask for phone numbers, too, but if someone hesitates, I tell them it's recommended but not required. I add that I keep my journals locked up and don't use that information for any non-related purpose. It's seldom a problem, but I would never insist.

Mystic, I think you've done all that is appropriate, imo, by reporting him to the SOS. Maybe they'll pull his notary commission. But having done that, I suggest you let it go, as others have suggested. It's not worth the indigestion, even though I imagine it was an inconvenience...

Reply by Korey Humphreys on 10/28/07 10:25am
Msg #218653

I highly doubt they'd pull his commission.......

over something like this. Now if he has a history of doing this with many complainants on file with the SOS, then maybe they'll pull his commission.

Here in Massachusetts it is not all that easy to get someone's commission revoked. I know because the Ayer Police Dept. and I were at odds. To make this long story short, my paralegal work brought me to people who were complaining about the conduct of two specific officers and the chief of police for not doing anything about the two bad apples. Well, with the assistance of a few Selectmen, I placed an ad in the local newspaper and invited anyone who had problems with any member of the APD to step forward. I would hear their complaints and if it was a legit complaint (not something like, "oh the officer yelled at me!", I notarized their affidavits and held on to the complainants complaint. After at least 50 complaints [for this small Town], I sent everything to the Attorney General and Department of Justice. For those individuals who felt uncomfortable signing a complaint, they simply signed a petition "To End Ayer Police Misconduct" which was also sent to the aforementioned places.

Well, in turn, the APD turned around and slapped me with (1) 2 cts. of Forgery of a Notarized Document; (2) 2 cts. of Filing a False Report as Public Officer; and (3) being an unlicensed private detective....... they also complained to my commissioning authority.

After a long year of intense investigations which felt like forever to me, the presiding judge, on the day of my trial, agreed to dismiss every count against me. In other words, I was cleared of all charges.

Anyways my point is that although the police chief and a detective tried to get my commission pulled, they failed to do so. My biggest life saver was the fact that I kept good records of everything. I also had a chance to speak with one of the Governor's Council to explain the situation. Thank God everything ended in my favor!!!!

In the mix of all this I was advised that they wouldn't "just pull my commission" without a chance for me to be heard on the matter. They said I would have the right to a hearing before anything got pulled. Now they could suspended a commission pending a hearing, but they won't just pull it. Which is good because what if I ticked a friend off and they decided to get even with me by contacting my commissioning authority? It would be horrible if they would just snatch up my commission.

Reply by Mystic on 10/28/07 11:55am
Msg #218664

Re: Had I been the notary at the UPS store

THANK YOU!!!! Finally! Another notary who actually knows the LAW.
UPS has no right to impose this requirement in opposition to California law and the notary cannot refuse. This is what I understand, too.

Reply by Tony_FL on 10/28/07 6:38am
Msg #218643

What if ..

.. what if the person did not HAVE a phone? I have done many notarizations for people with no telephones. And why would he need to call them for permission to provide copies of the journal? If they provide the necessary information, then ANYONE is entitled by law, to a copy of a journal entry (with or without permission).

Reply by Mystic on 10/28/07 11:59am
Msg #218665

Re: What if ..

Thank you, too! I also told him he did not need to tell anyone that another party had asked for a copy of their journal entry, but he felt he knew more.

I am not trying to get his commission revoked, but I would like him to know the law and stop trying to impose his own policy in opposition to the LAW. Maybe he needs to take a refresher course.

Reply by LKT/CA on 10/28/07 12:02am
Msg #218637

AAA (Auto Club of So. CA) offices have Notaries on Site.....

Do you have a AAA card (auto club)? Go to any AAA office, they have Notaries on site and depending on your membership level, the fee could be from $7 to free. I use them all the time for simple notarizations and I am NEVER asked for a phone number.
OR, just make up a number. What's the UPS Notary to do, call and check to see if it's really yours? Not !

Reply by Ernest__CT on 10/28/07 11:18pm
Msg #218730

There are several issues here.

One, the so-called Notary clearly did not follow the law (at least as I understand it! I'm not in CA.).

Two, the store owner needs a serious wakeup call regarding customer service. As in, he should provide some instead of a bad attitude.

Three, unfortunately, there's nothing that the local constabulary will do. Nor should they.

Fourth, each UPS Store is independantly owned and operated. UPS (the corporation) doesn't care (within [their] reason) what the store owner decides to do. Close early?r Not be open when their store hours (clearly posted) say they will be?r Refuse to give a receipt?r Refuse to accept a package that has a preprinted label (that is, one where you are not paying the store)?r Calling UPS's number will get you nothing.

Fifth, getting anyone to write a note saying that they won't do something is nearly impossible. Try videotaping instead; then they'll refuse to talk on camera and demand that you leave the store.

Sixth, people will treat the situation as if you are having a very, very minor inconvenience (witness some of the other get-over-it Posts) instead of a waste of your time and energy.

PLEASE, _do_ contact your Secretary of State and give all of the details. People behaving the way the store owner did need to be disciplined.