Posted by asigner on 10/10/07 3:16pm
Msg #215839

lsi closing stream

have any of you ever questioned whether borrowers would have problems with doing online closings through companies like LSI-CLOSINGSTREAM or some other electronic means? Do you think title companies/LO are surveying the loan applicants at some point to see if there is reception of the concept? I know that electronic processing is being accepted at some clerks offices, not in Louisiana though (I think). i am wondering how many loans are being handled this way. What are our options?

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 10/10/07 4:25pm
Msg #215844

I personally think this is a terrible idea....and that is not only because I am in an industry that would suffer if this became the norm. I would NEVER feel comfortable with doing my personal closing online. Then again, I am totally against online banking as well.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 10/10/07 4:32pm
Msg #215846

I have to agree with you Sherry. I don't think it will be a popular as people think, as there are a lot of folks that don't want anything to do with the internet or a computer, and will not want their information "out there".

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/10/07 4:38pm
Msg #215848

Re: lsi closing stream ~ Hi Sherry

So nice to see you about. Interesting comment. I think it is all a mindset. My mother who was a displaced person in postwar Germany saw the Deutschmark totally devalued and would never trust banks until her dying day. My mother never had a checking account because she wanted to know where her money was at all times. I use online banking today and do quite a bit of purchaseing online also. Years ago we used to be able to go to the bank and hand them a dollar bill and they would give you a dollar in silver: I remember that. When I first started to work I used to go to the bank and get a few silver dollars each week just 'cause I liked them. Indian pennies and buffalo nickles were the norm and then we got sandwich coins and went from a hard currency to a floating system. We knew where the national wealth was: Fort Knox! We have all adapted over the years. If you look at the money system in the abstract what we have is really a set of promissory notes and they really have no value except in the exchange of goods. It is a very short jump to go to a completely moneyless system. Look at the ads on TV for "Life at the Speed of Visa". There is a strong push to go to a completly closed system. It would eliminate float which is costing the banks a lot of money. It costs lots of money to print and mint money I suspect that ultimately we will have a token (subcutaneously implanted?) and we'll just go through a radio frequency scanner and all we will have is credits and debits. A brave new world!

Reply by asigner on 10/10/07 5:02pm
Msg #215850

Re: now ~ let me steal your implant

hi charles - does anyone out there have an idea if there areas are being impacted by electronic signature signings? where a poa is brought to a notary to be notarized then sent to the title company. and the rest is history.

THEN CHARLES, what? instead of stealing a wallet, they will harm you, to take your implant! a scary thing to think about.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/10/07 5:16pm
Msg #215854

Re: now ~ let me steal your implant ~ its happening as we

speak. They don't need to steal your implant. You know the new system that Visa is using with the data embedded in a radio frequency readable card? Well theives are cruising malls and other palces where these cards are in use with card readers in purses and pockets helping temselves to the data. They have to be close, the cards are useable only a few inches away and sice they are passive the coupling has to be done inductively but the technology is there. Note that you don't have to input a PIN number with the RF scanners, just wave your card and go. I don't care what the system is there will be someone who corrupts it, hacks it, steals it or otherwise breaks in. There is no such thing as a completely safe system. It is actually a kinder gentler thief who will only scan you instead of physically harming you. Now don't you feel better? Just kidding of course.

Reply by asigner on 10/10/07 5:27pm
Msg #215858

for years i have heard

to merge and grow or die. boy, they weren't kidding were they?
little guy at the bottom always gets squashed.

wow, i think i've depressed myself. and others - sorry u guys

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/10/07 5:38pm
Msg #215859

Re: for years i have heard ~ Don't get depressed, time

marches on. I find it interesting that a lot of people take things as a given in this industry. But if you look at the history of real estate transactions there are some interesting anomalies. Do you know that you don't have to record a deed for it to be binding? Are you aware of things like adverse possession of property and perfecting a deed or removing a cloud on a title. Have you ever perfected a patent. These things are done every day. Do you know that in some countries whoever holds the deed in their hot little hands is the owner. Most of the devices like recording of deeds are only to facilitate the legal process and have little to do with the actual transaction. It's interesting that many people can not see that the process may be variable and the transaction can still stay the same. There actually were real estate transactions before RESPA

Reply by Margaret_FL on 10/10/07 7:22pm
Msg #215874

Re: I just did a signing with POA's for the lender

I just did a signing yesterday for a lender where I had to notarize 6 POA's and they were not for corrections or typos. They were for the LO to sign the loan documents. They borrower was a long haul truck driver. Only loan documents were Promissory note, TIL, Security agreement, only 3 pages. Total package 15 pages

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/10/07 7:32pm
Msg #215875

Re: I just did a signing with POA's for the lender

I may give POA to a close relative to sign loan docs for me, but not the LO.

Reply by Margaret_FL on 10/10/07 8:24pm
Msg #215886

Re: I just did a signing with POA's for the lender

The borrower asked me what I thought about the POA. I explained to him my role and it was not my place to voice my opinion. I was hired as a notary to get his ID and witness his signature. He told me he understood.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 10/10/07 9:22pm
Msg #215896

I guess I don't understand the concern, first of all I don't

think that the LO would get the POA but it would go to escrow. Remember Escrow is supposed to be a disinterested thrid party, that is why they are given the funds to disburse and the closing statements to prepare. There are a lot of legal safeguards in place to assure that the escrow company performs as required.

Reply by CF on 10/10/07 9:15pm
Msg #215892

Re: I just did a signing with POA's for the lender

I have started to do a lot of research about this. I have found 1 company that sells the signature pad...and they give you a "free" membership and link you up with lenders that will use your direct to do e-notarizations. From the information that I have gathered the notary is going to be pushed out in any way. We still need to be there to notarize the final signature and verify that that person is who they have "electronically" designated themselves as. I was told that the process would be paperless. The borrowers would apply online, and submit electronic signatures on-line. I come to the borrowers house or work and check the ID and have them sing my signature pad- this is the notarization part. I go home download it and then send it back to the lender or who ever. The notary is still necessary in order to validate the information that has be gien on line. At this time...I would have to bet that about 30% of the US would do a loan this way. So there is still going to be the same busines that is there now....the difference is that if you dont "get on board" with the new trend of e-notarization you will be left behind. This is a good time to be on the cutting edge. How easy would it be to show up and verify ID and have them sign a pad? This company is not XYZ- however I think that XYZ is the only place that you can get your E-Notarization approval. It is $89.00 or somthing. Anyone that wants to PM aobut the signature pad company that I have found. I dont want to get in trouble for advertising. You need to be positive about this...it is happening and is going to be the new deal, soon enough.

Reply by CF on 10/10/07 9:16pm
Msg #215894

Correction!!!!

The notary is NOT going to get pushed out of the way. Sorry!

Reply by NCLisa on 10/10/07 4:58pm
Msg #215849

I've talked to many borrowers that were offered the ability to close online and declined. They liked their LO, but not enough to give them a POA.

Reply by asigner on 10/10/07 5:05pm
Msg #215851

lisa - i dont know about the packages you see.
However, my packages always have a POA in them for corrections to typos and the borrowers are always willingly to sign them.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/10/07 5:17pm
Msg #215855

But on those POA's it is stated that they are limited POA's just to correct typos and not to alter their loan terms.

Reply by asigner on 10/10/07 5:18pm
Msg #215857

yes ---it will be the same for online signing of documents,

Reply by Philip Johnson on 10/10/07 5:52pm
Msg #215860

I have had borrowers refuse to sign them and everything

funded fine. Most banks/lending institutions, etc are not going to let the possibility of 30 years of interest slip by on the lack of this form.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 10/10/07 5:55pm
Msg #215861

Re: I have had borrowers refuse to sign them and everything

If the borrower declines to sign that Limited POA form, all that would happen is if there are any typos the docs in question would have to be corrected and sent back to the borrower for the borrowers OK.

But as for giving a title company or lender POA to sign the loan docs, that is a different kettle of fish.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 10/10/07 6:07pm
Msg #215866

The only POA I have ever signed was to my wife to be used

while I was away on business and it had limits. I don't think I'll ever sign one for some person that I talked to on the phone.

Reply by NCLisa on 10/10/07 6:04pm
Msg #215863

Do you really not know the difference between a limited

POA and correction agreement and a full blown Power of Attorney? Because in the TitleStream situation, the borrower gives POA to the LO to sign the loan documents for them.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 10/10/07 6:10pm
Msg #215868

I do understand the ramifications of both, if you are

talking to me.

Reply by NCLisa on 10/10/07 8:18pm
Msg #215885

Re: I do understand the ramifications of both, if you are

not you

Reply by asigner on 10/10/07 6:11pm
Msg #215870

are u kidding

sure there is a difference - the world i live in and the world you live in must be completely different as well.
If you think that it cant be handled as smoothly as a LIMITED think again.
We will send you out this POA to be signed in front of a notary of your choosing, when we receive in the mail from you. a representative will call you on the phone and walk you through the process of signing the loan documents online, is that gonna work for you.
BO: well uh i dont know.
Dont worry - you receive the entire package prior to the signing via fedex
and we will walk thru each doc together on the phone - it happens to be 30 pages or less
real easy.

Reply by NCLisa on 10/10/07 8:15pm
Msg #215883

Re: are u kidding

I've been in this business for 20 years. I would not trust 75% of the LO's out there to send me copies of the same docs they are signing. I've NEVER prepared a specific POA that specified the exact loan amount, the interest rate, the term of the loan etc. Usually it said "a loan in the approximate amount of $" because most of the time the exact terms of the loan aren't known until the very last minute.

I've got family members that I wouldn't give a POA to, so why would you give it to a stranger? A lot of damage can be done in the few days someone has your POA.

Reply by asigner on 10/10/07 11:21pm
Msg #215909

Re: CLOSINGSTREAM

The following says to me - maybe we are not so irreplaceable! BTW - doesnt look like the POA is an ALL-EMCOMPASSING POA afterall - looks to be pretty specific. However, I understood it to have more generic information like (signing authority for loan # on such and such a date) and if it did include more specific terms (ie, rate) there would be no surprises at the closing. but I havent heard that the rate, loan amount and term would be disclosed on this document. Lisa where did you hear that? If you dont mind me asking.

"The ClosingStream process entails the borrower granting a loan specific and event specific Power-of-Attorney to LSI. Through ClosingStream's live interactive session, the borrower reviews and approves all related closing documentation online with an LSI Closing Representative.

Lenders and Borrowers benefit from ClosingStream...

Convenient closings — borrowers close their loan at any location with an internet connection eliminating timing and geographic limitations and reducing cancellations
Higher quality closing — with the elimination of third-party notaries, lenders have immediate access to LSI's highly trained experts at any point during the closing process
Expedited closings — no shipping documents to or from borrowers or notaries eliminating days from the closing and funding process
Reduced costs & cycle time — decreased document execution errors with ability to make real-time changes/edits at the closing table
Secure online closing — conducted in LSI's 'Cybertrust Secured Site' certified hosting environment
Minimize fraud risk — LSI's borrower identity authentication process meets Graham-Leach-Bliley and FFIEC requirements and uncovers any potentially fraudulent activity prior to closing
Documented compliance — entire sessions, including screen presentations, annotations, questions, answers and audio, are recorded and archived "

Reply by NCLisa on 10/11/07 9:46am
Msg #215935

Re: CLOSINGSTREAM

As an EO and RE Paralegal for 17 years, I have prepared hundreds of what they are calling loan specific POA's. They are not all that loan specific. The last law firm I worked at in NC did all the Deed and POA's for LSI for closings in the state of NC. While the POA says that it is specific to a refinance, and gives a list of things that can be done, it does not have a loan number, or any of the terms of the loan. Borrowers and LO's change the loan amounts and terms of the loans up until the very last minute.

While LSI may be recording the entire closing, you know there are companies out there that aren't. LSI has some very nice and very honest employees, but I would not give any stranger that I did not know a POA to refinance my property. Especially since the last ones we prepared for them did not have a expiration date. This type of program while right now has all kinds of bells and whistles, but in the future will bring out all the crooked LO's/MB's out of the woodwork, and borrowers will again be getting loans they didn't want and don't understand.

Reply by asigner on 10/11/07 10:50am
Msg #215971

Re: CLOSINGSTREAM

Lisa you said that
"While the POA says that it is specific to a refinance, and gives a list of things that can be done, it does not have a loan number,"
To my knowledge a POA can say just about anything and one sure way to tell which loan they have signing authority over is by a combination of information including, but not limited to, the LOAN #
I'm sure LSI and others are smart enough to know the future legal ramifications for POA's containing signing authority over loans and refis that are not specific about which loan it is.

Reply by CaliNotary on 10/10/07 6:03pm
Msg #215862

"What are our options?"

Why do you think we have options? Our options begin and end at our decision whether or not to accept a signing. You adapt with the times if you want to stay in business.