Posted by melissa/pa on 10/23/07 10:50pm
Msg #217923

vested owner

I did a signings tonight. The deed was in the wife's name, however they wanted the husband to sign as vested owner on the last page for notarization. I informed him to sign as printed but he signed with Jr. I thought this was o.k. Am I right?

Reply by SReis on 10/23/07 10:57pm
Msg #217925

Depends on the company. Some will say more is better than less, as long as they sign at least what is on the sig line. However, most co.'s want EXACTLY what is on the line & I always tell bo's sign only as you see printed, even if I do have to tell them every time they sign.

Reply by melissa/pa on 10/23/07 11:05pm
Msg #217927

Thanks. I did tell him but he slipped. Would you ever let the person cross out the mistake and initial on the deed. The company I work for would have had to redraw doc's but since he wasn't listed on the front of the deed, they typed Jr behind his name on the sig line.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 10/24/07 12:48am
Msg #217937

A better approach is to pull out the borrowers' copy and have him resign correctly. Just switch the pages.

Reply by Julie/MI on 10/24/07 6:11am
Msg #217943

I don't know about PA recorder's but if they typed Jr at the signature line and you acknowledged him as Jr., the Jr, has to be on the first page in my state, it should be fine.

Sounds link this was a Household because of the vested owner term and they barcode their docs so swapping out a page is not always that easy.

Reply by Ilene C. Seidel on 10/24/07 12:31pm
Msg #218048

you could have used his copy of the signature page.

Reply by LarryTN on 10/24/07 9:01am
Msg #217962

In some cases if the variation in signatures includes the one he signed with, you shouldn't have any problems.

Reply by LarryTN on 10/24/07 9:03am
Msg #217963

I should have stated that if the signature affidavit included the signature he used, you shouldn't have any problems. I too have heard that more is better.

Reply by PA_Notary_II on 10/24/07 9:48am
Msg #217973

If this is an HFC/Beneficial loan, they are explicit in their directions that a borrower MAY over sign but MAY NOT undersign. Therefore, if a bwr signed WITH a middle initial that was not printed...that's OK. If a brw signs WITH a generation indicator that was not typed...that's OK. If the name is typed WITH a middle initial they cannot sign it without...likewise, if their name is typed with a generation indicator, they may NOT sign without it. OK?

Reply by melissa/pa on 10/24/07 10:10am
Msg #217977

Thank you all for your replies. This was a household mortgage. The auditor was there and at first wanted to have doc's redrawn, then she noticed his name was not on the front page. I read also that middle initial or generation was o.k. as long as it was not less then what was on doc. Appreciate all your input.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 10/24/07 10:21am
Msg #217982

So was he a JR.? Or were you talking to his dad?

What was on his DL? There is a difference between Joe Blow and Joe Blow Jr., who were you talking to?

Reply by WDMD on 10/24/07 10:35am
Msg #217989

Re: So was he a JR.? Or were you talking to his dad?

"What was on his DL? There is a difference between Joe Blow and Joe Blow Jr., who were you talking to? "

Then you get the ones whose ID says Jr., but they insist they are no longer a Jr. because their father passed away, and want to sign without the Jr.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 10/24/07 10:36am
Msg #217991

At the risk of displaying my ignorance...

Can anyone tell me why a spouse would sign the signature page if he/she is not showing as vesting on the first page of the deed? What exactly does it signify? TIA

Reply by Julie/MI on 10/24/07 11:13am
Msg #218014

Re: At the risk of displaying my ignorance...

it signifies that the processor did not add the vested owner's name to the first page but did so on the signature line or the software program didn't allow it and the nsa was on the ball and new that they had to sign to perfect the lien. in my state the mtg will be rejected because the signors' names must be on the first page, signature page and ack exactly the same way.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 10/24/07 11:24am
Msg #218021

Re: At the risk of displaying my ignorance...

So do they become vested just by signing? Seems strange. I had one like this, recently, where the wife's name was on the first page and both husband's and wife's names were on the signature page. I pulled the borrower's copy of the signature page, and had them sign both ways: one with just hers, one with both. My guess was the one with just hers would be used, and the inclusion of the husband's name was a title error, but perhaps not.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 10/24/07 11:33am
Msg #218026

Vesting

In Texas it is community property state, the non-borrowering spouse will be vested the same as the borrowering spouse. And it does happen from time to time that the software will not put both names on the first page, but will put them both on signature page.

It just happened to me on one, and when I sent the package in, with a note stuck to the front of the DOT that they need to add the husband, they called and thanked me for catching it.

Reply by Philip Johnson on 10/24/07 12:10pm
Msg #218038

Rachel here in WA

One can own property outside of what you share with a spouse. I would imagine every state has some sort of this as well, I'm not sure of that though. Here in Washington you could have owned property since your youth and then once you got married chose not to include your spouse. That property is vested in your name as the "sole and only owner." To start adding folks names as a precaution, certainly is not our business and should be avoided.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 10/24/07 12:18pm
Msg #218043

Re: Rachel here in WA

Right. This is the same in Oregon, which is where this signing and property were. I often see a married person holding title singly. That is why I pulled the borrower's copy and had her sign by herself (she lined through husband's name and initialed, also). I sent them both, with a note attached. I don't know which one was used. I hope I did it right; I don't have a title background, so I'm constantly learning.

Reply by Phillip/TX on 10/24/07 12:38pm
Msg #218051

In Texas

There are two major categories of property in the State of Texas:
community property and separate property.
Separate property is:

property owned prior to marriage;
property acquired at any time by gift or inheritance;
recoveries for personal injuries sustained by a spouse during marriage (except for loss of earnings); and
property exchanged for above items 1 - 3.

Community property consists of the property, other than separate property, acquired by either spouse during marriage. This is true even if only one spouse has possession of the property. Just because one spouse is named on the title, deed, or account; one person receives the asset as payment for personal services (ie: salary); or the asset will not be paid until a future date (ie: retirement) do not make it separate property. There is a presumption that all property possessed by either spouse is community property. Separate property ownership must be proven by clear and convincing evidence. The most common way of proof is by tracing the asset from the date of acquisition to present date. If the asset is money, and has been deposited into a joint account, or into an account with monies which would be considered community property (ie: salary) has been deposited, the separate property may become commingled to the point that it is not possible or cost-effective to prove its continued existence.

Reply by Rachel/ORWA on 10/24/07 1:02pm
Msg #218054

Re: In Texas

That makes complete sense; thanks for the information. Ultimately, I know my job is to "just notarize," and the onus for the document recordability is on the TC, but it's nice to be informed. I think it's easier for those of us in non-community property states. Thanks for the contrast and comparison.