Posted by Gerry_VT on 6/25/08 10:42am
Msg #252872

Conflicting advise about Vermont certified copies

Two state-wide entities in Vermont seem to give conflicting advice about notaries making certified copies.

The Vermont League of Cities and towns, at http://resources.vlct.org/u/Clerk_Hdbk.pdf says

"Notaries can certify only copies of documents which are in their official custody, such as
deeds and vital records (birth certificates, marriage licenses, etc.). When asked to certify
a copy of a record which is not in the clerk’s custody (e.g. a birth certificate from another
town or state), the clerk/notary can only certify as to the identity of the person requesting
the copy, not to the authenticity of the original document. This is not spelled out in the
Vermont statutes but derives from generally accepted law. Black’s Law Dictionary, 7th
edition defines certified copy as 'a duplicate of an original … document, certified as an
exact reproduction usually by the officer responsible for issuing or keeping the original.'"

(Note that since this is a handbook for municipal clerks, and birth certificates are filed with the town clerk, the usual readers of this handbook usually WILL have official custody of birth certificates. Every town clerk is a notary public.)

The Vermont SOS, at http://vermont-archives.org/notary/guide/pdf/NOTARY%20GUIDE%202006.pdf, says:

"A notary may certify that a copy of an original document is a true copy. 24 V.S.A. §445. This applies to any document of a personal nature. It does not apply to vital records, such as birth, marriage, death or divorce records."

There is no hint that the document must be in the official custody of the notary.

My observations: most notaries do not have any documents in their official custody that anyone would want a copy of, except their journal. Exceptions are notaries who hold another government office too, and university registrars. So if the League of Cities and Towns is right, most of us can only make certified copies of our journals.

Does anyone have any additional sources that support either position?

Does anyone know the statute (if any) that prohibits notaries from making certified copies of vital records? (I know that for those of us who are not town clerks, it's a terrible idea, and that the SOS says not to, I'd just like to know if there is a law that says so.)

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/25/08 12:09pm
Msg #252892

I don't have any specific statute but I would like to offer this thought.........what one gets when they send away for their birth certificate is a certified copy of the original. The original stays forever at the county hall of record (what it's called in CA). So how can a Notary certify a copy of a copy? They can't. They can only certify copies of originals. Therefore, vital records cannot be certified by a Notary because they are not originals. If a person needs 10 copies of a birth/marriage/death certificate, they have to send for and pay for 10 certified copies from their county hall of records. They cannot buy one copy, then photocopy 9 more and ask that the 9 be certified as true to the original as it is NOT the original.

The county hall of records custodian's signature guarantees that a birth/marriage/death certificate is a true copy of the original (probably on microfilm at this point).

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/25/08 12:55pm
Msg #252904

Meant to write...

A vital record cannot be certified by a Notary as a true copy of the original because what the customer presents is not the original. The original is on file with the county hall of records and it never leaves the county hall of records. That is how someone can send for their vital records today, lose it 10 years from now and send away for another one - because they are getting a copy (certified).

Reply by Vince/KS on 6/25/08 1:53pm
Msg #252922

Not an attorney, but my opinion is your two statutes do NOT conflict. The first is instruction as to how documents in the "official custody" (and says vital record and deeds) of a "clerk/notary" (that would mean the government clerk in my opinion) may make a certified copy only if it is an original that has been in the custody of the official. They may not authenticate an official record outside their custody.

The other language from the SOS handbook says a notary may make copies of documents and certify them and also says it is a document of a personal nature (okay so far). And then says, It does not apply to vital records such as birth, marriage, death or divorce records." So, what this means to me is a Notary cannot do this but a clerk/notary (as in your first definition) may.

Without knowing what the specific statute says (24 V.S.A. §445), it would be hard to gauge exactly what it says, but it appears to me, based upon this summary, that unless you are a public official that has permanent custody of a vital record, then you are not to certify a copy of that vital record.

Kansas might be simpler in the handbook as it simply says:"Certified Copy -
A notary public can certify a copy only if the notary personally has custody of the original document and makes the copy from the original."

Reply by Gerry_VT on 6/25/08 4:59pm
Msg #252946

Vince, 24 V.S.A. §445 just says "Every notary public is empowered to take acknowledgements, administer oaths and affirmations, certify that a copy of a document is a true copy of another document, and perform any other act permitted by law." So the word "original" that LKT/CA was discussing does not occur in the law. Town clerks are specifically authorized to make certified copies of records on file in their offices.

The conflict that I see is that if a personal paper is presented to a notary by a client, and the client requests that the notary make a certified copy, the SOS seems to think this is OK but the League of Cities and Towns seem to think the notary shouldn't, since the paper isn't in the notary's custody (except temporarily, while the notary makes the copy).

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/25/08 5:22pm
Msg #252948

I don't believe I misunderstood your original question because in a few places of the law you quoted, it speaks of the originals

<<<<.........to the authenticity of the original document.*****This is not spelled out in the Vermont statutes but derives from generally accepted law. Black’s Law Dictionary, 7th edition ****defines certified copy as 'a duplicate of an original****** … document, certified as an exact reproduction usually by the officer responsible for issuing or keeping ****the original.****"

The Vermont SOS, at http://vermont-archives.org/notary/guide/pdf/NOTARY%20GUIDE%202006.pdf, says:

"A notary may certify that ******a copy of an original document is a true copy.***** 24 V.S.A. §445. This applies to any document of a personal nature. It does not apply to vital records, such as birth, marriage, death or divorce records."

I understood your question at the end of your 1st post to be about vital records....not about documents in someone's custody.

Reply by Vince/KS on 6/25/08 5:31pm
Msg #252950

"A notary may certify that a copy of an original document is a true copy. 24 V.S.A. §445. This applies to any document of a personal nature. It does not apply to vital records, such as birth, marriage, death or divorce records."

I believe that the discrepancy you see here on custody does not exist (except for vital records and deeds) The reason is that you are merely certifying that the copy that you made was of a document of a personal nature (like a letter from the person to another) where you would “write a brief description of the personal document and paper presented to you by ______”. You are not certifying a vital record or deed. They bring the personal document, you copy it and certify it as a copy of the personal document and they take it with them. But you are not to certify a vital record or deed. At least that’s what I read of it (but I’m not an attorney).

The key words in the first definition are “official custody”. To me means that the clerk/notary have continuous control of the official vital record or deed, compared to a notary having temporary control of a personal document that you are copying in the second definition.