Posted by John_NorCal on 6/12/08 10:15am
Msg #251001

Everyday my resolve deepens.......

Gas at the corner station $4.61 reg $4.85 premium (up 6 cents from yesterday)
Half gallon ice cream downsized to 1.5 qts - (kept the same price, downsized the product)
Bread now $4.39 a loaf
Cereal $3.39 - $4.99
The list can go on and on. Then these SS or TC call you offering "work" at $50.00. Give me a break! I'm not going to subsidize their operation. People who are taking these jobs are just plain stupid, no other way around that.

Reply by Alice/MD on 6/12/08 10:32am
Msg #251004

Yes John .... feeling the same here. I just got a call asking me to go out to get a deed signed and notarized after someone else screwed up. I remember the call coming to me first and they refused my fee. Now they call back to ask me to fix it. Well I was just too humble and said no. My resolve deepens.............

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/12/08 10:35am
Msg #251006

Yes, gas and food prices are like a run-away freight train...out of control and gaining momentum. I saw the shrunken ice cream carton. The diaper companies did that years ago - backhandedly raised prices by downsizing the pack of diapers. Fortunately, I live close enough to walk to the market, coffee shop, deli, etc.

And regarding SS's and TC's...I got a call from one I had to demand payment from and threaten them with late fees and my attorney. I told the caller to remove me from their database. Someone out there is taking them but they'll wise up when they see they aren't profiting.

Reply by NCLisa on 6/12/08 10:40am
Msg #251009

Hay in spring of 2007 was $5.50 a bale for a 75 pound bale. By fall it was $10 a bale for a 60 pound bale.

Hay in spring of 2008 is $8.00 a bale for a 60 pound bale. With the prices of fuel and drought, I may have to quit eating to feed my horses.

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 6/12/08 12:03pm
Msg #251025

.......John

Its frustrating

clients, (brokers, TC, EC) just don't care what fuel prices are! Most do not budge on what they will pay.
My companys 1 million E&O went up almost double over last year! We had no claims.
The reasons they give you are lame, the truth is somewhere in the sub-prime mess.

Running a business, as a SA, or a SS is costing more money, with a lower profit.
The magic answer here? MARKETING YOURSELF to the right kind of client.
. . fewer loans, and more companies are willing to jump through more hoops for less money.

In the mean time there will always be SA's that will take whats offered.
Sometimes they are not detailed and errors are made, but the majority are good signing agents taking advantage of those who have cant work for under a set amount.
Just like some of us, cut coupons and some don't.
Do you get mad at Walmart because their prices are lower than Macys?

disclaimer
Our company pays more per signing than we did a year ago, we have not lowered our prices, we just make less per file.

Reply by Hugh Nations Signing Agents of Austin on 6/12/08 12:07pm
Msg #251026

So now the half-gallon of Blue Bell Homemade Vanilla that I can't eat has been downsized to a quart and half of Blue Bell Homemade Vanilla that I can't eat? Surely life can't get much crueler than that.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/12/08 12:17pm
Msg #251028

Well John, I'm sure not stupid and I'll take a $50 order any time that $50 will make me money. You have never seen me complain about lack of work (I have a pitiful 9 appts. scheduled this week - another moved until next week and surprisingly I had to turn another away due to timing). You have never seen me complain about the money I make (although there are certain orders I accept that I kick myself about after the fact - including a $350 not too long ago). You take each order and look at it individually and then fit that order into the big picture - if it works, accept it - if not, move on. $50 for the majority of loans isn't worth the fee but for many loans, it's almost pure profit.

Reply by CJ/Alaska on 6/12/08 1:34pm
Msg #251044

$50 pure profit??
I'd LOVE to get me one of those deals.. Seems most calls I get are 120+ pages,
(double that for copies) ~ about 20 miles on the road - 10-20 pages of FaxBacks,
Nooooo Way I will make that sot of effort for $50.
I tell the SA's that call - "No thanks, I think I'd rather go to the Mall..." LOL

Reply by Merry_CA on 6/12/08 1:53pm
Msg #251047

The key here is that it sounds like Sue has been at this for a long time. She no doubt has a business plan that she tweeks regularly and knows exactly where her break-even point is on any job she accepts. Without a solid business plan you are out there "blowin' in the wind" and of course do not know when you can accept and $50 signing and when you cannot.

Reply by CJ/Alaska on 6/12/08 2:07pm
Msg #251051

The problem as I see it is - when NSA's take these assignments for $50, the agencies
perpetuate the Expectation that we should ALL take them for $50 and it devalues the
work we all do..
Its not JUST what we do for THAT client.
We took a course to be certified. I dont know about you but I paid over $200 for it.
Plus annual membership fees. Plus the Bonding fee & Fee for our State Notary. Plus
the EOI.. If these people 'just want a Notary' then they should do what they used to
do - give the borrower $50 and tell them to take their package to their local bank and
ask the new accounts person (or the bank notary) to simply Notarize what they think
they should sign.. and Hopefully, the loan will Close... JMO

Reply by SoCal Signing Co. on 6/12/08 2:26pm
Msg #251056

I dont think Sue was saying her $50.00 was for e-docs.
but is you had a signing within 10 miles overnight docs for $50.00
why not?

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/12/08 8:03pm
Msg #251116

It would have to be closer than 10 miles for me to take O/N docs for $50. Gas near me is pretty darn near to $4.60/gal. Add wear and tear on the car and that leaves not much for my time. If it was on the way to another appointment, that's a different story. If it was general notary work, just notarizing 1 or 2 docs with no prep or follow-up, paid on the spot, I'd probably do it. I'm guessing Sue_pa meant something along those lines... or maybe very close by.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/12/08 9:08pm
Msg #251121

...for $50, the agencies perpetuate the Expectation that we should ALL take them for $50 ...

Where did you come up with a blanket statement like that? By the way, I'm not a "NSA" - never have been, never will be - maybe that's the difference that you don't get.

In your example, of course that's not a $50 order - it's a $150 order. That said, I am certainly not going to help you figure out what is and isn't workable. I said most orders aren't worth $50 but some are - and again, if $50 makes me some $$$, I'll take it. I'm guessing I've completed 4 or 5 $50 orders so far this year. I've completed approx. 325 orders this year so it's a very small percentage.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/12/08 2:27pm
Msg #251057

Seems like we're at odds lately on most things Merry but...

truer words were never spoken! I find it amazing at the number of people in this business who haven't a clue and new one's coming on board daily.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 6/12/08 2:30pm
Msg #251059

Re: for many ($50) orders, it's almost pure profit ...

There are very few $50 signings that I see working for me and making pure profit: if the docs were overnighted and I walked next door; if the docs were overnighted and BOs came to me; if I was an employee and used the internet, computer and printer belonging to my boss to download and print the docs, and BOs then came to my work ...

I have owned my secretarial service since 1992 (with signings as an add-on) and people call me anal, but I can tell you exactly how much each piece of paper costs my business with every cost figured in. Last night a SS that I haven't signed for in over a year-and-one-half called. I quoted my rate (which has increased) and she asked "why?" and went on to tell me I was committing suicide -- but that's not true because I've been surviving in the business world of self-employment for 16 years, and if your prices don't keep pace with your costs and expenses, you won't have to commit suicide--because you will have to close the doors as the business will have died all on its own!

Reply by CJ/Alaska on 6/12/08 2:34pm
Msg #251062

Re: for many ($50) orders, it's almost pure profit ...

..and it seems like all anyone ever talks about any more is - How much does One
sheet of paper cost me? How many miles can I drive on a dollar?? I'm sorry but If
you are counting it down that close then you are a Not For Profit organization..
We are supposed to be making some reasonable Profit for what we are doing here
or else why not just go back to working for someone else??

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 6/12/08 2:44pm
Msg #251063

Re: for many ($50) orders, it's almost pure profit ...

CJ, knowing how much each piece of paper costs me allows me to set a price--INCLUDING profit for my business, which I have owned and operated since, as I said, 1992. That price includes biz licenses, insurance, registrations, taxes, equipment, utilities, gasoline, auto expenses/maintenance/insurance, retirement, etc., etc., etc. I can tell you at any given time my accounts payable and receivables and every account outstanding. If I wasn't making a profit, I would no longer own my own company, of which signings are a very small part -- thus the reason I don't have to take $50 signings, and I would go back to working for someone as an employee. IMO, if you want to have the mindset of a business person and not that of an employee you had better know what EACH piece of paper is costing you!

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/12/08 2:47pm
Msg #251064

Yep. "Profit" has to figure into a business. Ask the

oil co's & Mr. Mozilla how that works. They have it figured out. Shame everybody doesn't do it. Heck, I can tell you how much my gas is going to cost on a per signing basis before I accept it.

Reply by Carolyn Bodley on 6/12/08 5:13pm
Msg #251097

Re: CJ - to clarify further

what I'm talking about is not how much one piece of paper costs in reference to the price of a ream, or even how many miles can be driven on a dollar -- it involves ALL of your operating costs and the markup needed to make a profit -- that is what I meant when I referenced knowing the exact cost of a piece of paper.

Reply by CJ/Alaska on 6/12/08 9:06pm
Msg #251120

Re: for many ($50) orders, it's almost pure profit ...

I realize about Cost of doing business, but what I'm saying is, we shouldnt be using that
to JUSTIFY what we as professionals charge for our Professional Services..
We should be able to confidently say - I charge xxx.xx for my professional services, just as
someone at a title company does.. or an Appraiser, or anyone else who makes sure these
deals come together.. do they ask the Appraiser, Im sorry but can't you do this for Less $$?

I'm saying that we shouldnt have to make such a case for all the Minutia - and stand tall and
say that I charge xxx.xx because my service is worth it, and Thats what I charge...

Reply by George Rousseau on 6/13/08 6:02pm
Msg #251232

Re: for many ($50) orders, it's almost pure profit ...

CJ...................being an appraiser I can tell you that that industry is also having many problems. Most of the larger lenders are using appraisal management companies that are subsidiaries of the lender. They might charge the borrower $350 on the HUD-1 and pay the appraiser only $225. Also appraisers seem to be the favorite target of rhetoric from blow hard politicians who don't know their a** from a whole in the ground about the lending industry. If you want some real doom and gloom go check out appraisersforum.com

I work for a lender out here in Virginia. It's bad all over, and there are just too many people in the industry at this time driving prices down. Those that can survive and are still in business will be there to pick up the market share when things turn around. Until then it is what it is.

Reply by PA_NOTARY on 6/12/08 8:01pm
Msg #251114

Sue Pa

" $50 for the majority of loans isn't worth the fee but for many loans, it's almost pure profit."

Please clarify that statement......

thanks