Posted by SLB SIGNING SERVICES, INC. - Sherry on 6/3/08 8:31am
Msg #249815

In response75/15 Msg #249422 posted by Monica regarding fees

I havent read the board in a few days and am actually quite leary of posting but I wanted to clarify something about our fees. First off, we pay $50 on a CASH deal that is under 20 pages. We collect $80 from our clients on these transactions so our profit is $30. Should the package go over 20 pages by even one page, the payment than jumps to $100 for and e-doc loan and $75 for an overnight. In addition, since I am laying it all out on the table, I would like to add that we charge our clients $150 for e-docs and $125 for overnight docs. In addition, we pay full fee for recissions, print/trip and time fees of $75 for just showing up and the borrowers refuse to sign, full fee on cancellations when time was actually spent at the table. I just to be clear on what our policies are. We are NOT one of the SS's that pay $50 full loans and if you ask for most that have worked for us, I am confident that they will also say that we pay in a timely manner (usually between 10-14 days post closing). So there it is in a nutshell. Should you have any additional questions, please feel free to give me a call - 888-362-3656 and I will be happy to discuss any and all fees with you personally.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/3/08 8:51am
Msg #249817

$50 for ANY purchase is TOTALLY unacceptable

You should be ashamed of yourself for pricing yourself at $80 FOR A PURCHASE. Do you not realize the TREMENDOUS amount of responsibility a purchase requires?

Reply by Luana Lonergan on 6/3/08 9:05am
Msg #249818

Re: $50 for ANY purchase is TOTALLY unacceptable

I give SLB a heads-up for laying it on the line. As usual, Sue, criticism, criticism.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/3/08 9:14am
Msg #249820

Re: $50 for ANY purchase is TOTALLY unacceptable

Luana - sue's as entitled to her opinion as you are, or I am.

If I were SLB I wouldn't give a flying flea what the notary board thought I'd run my business and ignore what people like me and sue think.

You can't please all the people all the time. I go to bed each night and sleep like a baby feeling fairly good about myself. If I don't, I FIX IT...I don't keep trying to explain myself to an audience who historically thinks differently. Waste of time.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/3/08 9:21am
Msg #249821

ABSOLUTELY right

criticism over the top on this one. Every day I read posts where people are complaining about fees - something you might note I never fuss about because I am happy with the fees I charge and receive. If you think she's doing anyone a favor by paying $50 for a purchase just because she's 'laying it on the line' then you and I work in entirely different worlds. "Laying it on the line" when 'it' is TOTALLY unacceptable doesn't make it right.

As Brenda says, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and anyone taking a purchase for $50 should , in my opinion, get another job. By the way, unlike many others, I do take some $50 orders but NEVER for a purchase.

by the way, how is that going asking your clients what they pay lawyers? Has it gotten you any productive results? Hummm, wonder if the reason you have an attitude against my post was because you didn't like my reply to one of yours previously?

Reply by MistarellaFL on 6/3/08 9:10am
Msg #249819

Re: $50 for ANY purchase is TOTALLY unacceptable

Or, do you even care?
Cheapest is only a good selling point (IMO) when comparing same/similar products.
Cheapest=not the best selling point for any service business.

Reply by PAW on 6/3/08 10:44am
Msg #249830

Yes ... TOTALLY unacceptable

Just this past week, I did a cash purchase, only 5 documents, but it took over 3 hours! Purchases, whether cash or not, take longer and must be done right the first time. There is no second chance when keys are exchanged. That means if there is anything that can go wrong, something surely does: HUD has incorrect figures, buyer short of funds at the table, Warranty Deed is incorrect, ... ... ... And the list goes on.

$50 for 3 hours work, including the travel expense, is an insult to any closing professional.

(The preceding is my opinion and should not be misconstrued to be the opinion of anyone else, including the management.)

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/3/08 11:11am
Msg #249836

I am working on memorizing "Msg #249467".

Every time there is a discussion on the fairness or unfairness of fees, I am going to post it.

SSs KNOW that a good many of us find their fees to be unfit in my instances yet they still post here in defense...to a proven hostile crown.

Why?

They have plenty of people to work for them. Why bring up this controversy?

I just don't get it.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/3/08 12:55pm
Msg #249848

An excellent tactic it erodes confidence...

By constantly hammering the lower rates it raises doubts in the minds of notaries, especially the inexperienced ones and so they take the $50 out of fear that they will no longer be able to have any business even though it is a path to self destruction. The seasoned notary knows what their work is worth but the newer and the faint of heart are afraid. Unfortunately, and I've said it so often I'm sick of it, notaries will never have control of their destiny until they take it by uniting. Unfortunately I dont think that notaries as a whole are capable of unity but those who have formed the networks know it works in their favor. Now the networks need to form larger more far reaching networks so that they can get the attention they deserve on a national level: I can dream can't I?

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/3/08 1:13pm
Msg #249855

I had an interesting conversation with a VP at AmTrust

last week towards the goal of promoting not just the Florida NSA Network, but the other state networks as well.

Only time will tell if my message got through, but I am anticipating an increase in the number of eSignings coming my way. I hope my fellow network members also experience increased business from this company.

Reply by Charles_Ca on 6/3/08 3:03pm
Msg #249870

Having followed the Fl NSA Network from its inception

I think that you guys have an excellent model for any group to follow: I certainly wish you well. It takes courage and hard work to get out and find work for yourselves instead of having to pay someone to find the work for you (SS) and then to try and undercut you at every chance. SS are for those who can not fend for themselves and this business would be far better for the ntoary without the SS. The incompetent survive largely in part becasue they accept the pittances that SS throw out there, if they had to deal with the TC directly they would be gone in short order.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/3/08 3:07pm
Msg #249872

FL has an excellent model. n/m

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/3/08 3:22pm
Msg #249873

It does take work, and sometimes you don't see results for a

while, but the time and effort pay off in the end.

As notaries, we are at the tail end of the transaction and don't always realize how much work others have put into just this one closing.

I am trying to build relationships with others in all the related real estate/mortgage/banking fields and can only hope they appreciate the value of working with a professional notary.

Reply by PAW on 6/3/08 1:46pm
Msg #249858

Re: I am working on memorizing "Msg #249467".

So, working with the numbers provided by SLB, a majority of their work (assuming that it is edocs) is a 66.6/33.3 split.

$TC - SLB ($/%) - NSA ($/%)
----- ------------ ----------
$ 80 - $30/37.5% - $50/62.5% ..... Purchase
$150 - $50/33.3% - $100/66.6% ..... Edoc pkg
$125 - $50/40.0% - $75/60% ..... Overnight pkg

At a minimum, the agency is keeping a third of the total fee. Does the work and risk warrant that percentage of the fee?

Of course, SLB has the right to charge and pay anyway they see fit, just as the NSA has the right to accept any compensation they deem equitable.

Personally, I like the 100/0 split, which is often the case when working directly with title companies that appreciate the expertise and benefit that a professional signing agent brings to the table.

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/3/08 1:50pm
Msg #249859

I agree with you Paul

But that doesn't mean that I don't or won't accept an occasional assignment from a SS if the circumstances are right and they agree to my fee.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/3/08 1:57pm
Msg #249861

Re: I am working on memorizing "Msg #249467".

Thank you, Paul...you say it better than I do.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/3/08 7:18pm
Msg #249904

I'm finding this whole discussion to be amusing, because...

... in NY, an SA can't do a purchase unless they've been trained as a title closer and hired by the TC. Our purchase closings are table-funded - both parties with their attorneys, plus the bank attorney and the title closer all at the table, with funds disbursed then and there. The closer's responsibility is high - the closer has to make sure all exceptions to title are either properly cleared or omitted from the title insurance policy, plus collect all funds for the TC.

For this, the TC pays the closer the princely sum of $50; some pay nothing at all.

The closer traditionally gets a tip (typically, $100) from the buyer, and also collects a pick-up fee from the seller for any liens that have to be paid off (this involves determining the exact amount due, plus daily interest, and making sure the lien holder is paid). Pick-up fees range anywhere from $100 to $250 per lien, depending on how greedy the closer is.

The kicker is - the fees are all voluntary. The buyer doesn't have to tip, and the seller can refuse the pick-up fee (in which case, the closer probably won't handle the lien pay-off). So while you guys are all saying that $50 for a purchase is unacceptable, in NY the closer has no idea what or even if he/she will be paid for a purchase until after the closing is done.

Reply by PAW on 6/3/08 8:02pm
Msg #249908

Bummer!

99% of the purchase closings I do are "title closings", with disbursements, etc. However, the big difference is, is that I'm a "remote" closer with the actual closer in the office, just a phone call away in case something needs to be done, like fix the HUD, rework the vesting on the deed or mortgage. I'm paid by the title company either at settlement (listed on the HUD, paid at the table) or from their operating funds or from their fees from closing (via invoice, paid post closing).

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/3/08 8:56pm
Msg #249910

It's a different world

In NY the HUD-1 is finalized at the table, often with the closer's input. Sometimes one or both attorneys don't specialize in real estate law, which can lead to interesting things like figuring out how to prorate taxes. The TC is a phone call away if there's a real problem, but the closer is expected to know what to do. All that for maybe no money...

I've been trained as a title closer but don't do currently do purchase closings. I'm also a Realtor, so I occasionally get a front-row seat at the circus.

Reply by Susan Fischer on 6/3/08 11:03pm
Msg #249917

"so I occasionally get a front-row seat at the circus."

What a great line, Mike. Kudos.

Reply by CaliNotary on 6/4/08 12:58am
Msg #249923

Re: It's a different world

Dang, the purchases I do here in CA aren't really any different than refi's, just as easy to sign and usually go just as quickly. Glad to see that for once CA isn't the biggest PITA state about something for a change.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/4/08 7:11am
Msg #249927

Re: I'm finding this whole discussion to be amusing, because...

Mike, my question is this - why in the world would anyone have this job? surely they are guaranteed some type pay check from someone. Are you saying someone goes to the table and crosses the t's and dots the i's to be sure everything is finalized and then may never get paid anything except what gets 'tossed' at them willy nilly? I must be missing something here.

My purchases appear to be on the same table as Paul.

Reply by MikeC/NY on 6/6/08 6:03pm
Msg #250320

Re: I'm finding this whole discussion to be amusing, because

"Mike, my question is this - why in the world would anyone have this job? "

Because it can be very lucrative. Pickup fees on liens can be $100 or more for each; if you have a first and second to pay off plus a couple of judgments that have to be cleared, you can have a nice payday. The State was making noise about eliminating the pickup fees, but nothing has been done about that as far as I know. If it DOES happen, no one will want the job.

The payments (tip and pickup fees) are customary, and the attorneys play the game because they know what's expected. There is a chance that the closer will get stiffed (usually only if they're obnoxious), but there's the same chance for an SA on any job they do...

As I said in a later message, this is the way it's usually done in the NYC area; other parts of the state do it differently.

Reply by ME/NJ on 6/3/08 9:22am
Msg #249822

I wanted to stay out of all of this

But everyone of us have a choice. SLB does not hide it's rates - (go to the web site and look it over, if you look notary payment rates are listed)

I've worked with SLB a few times, my rates have been met each time, payment was quick and the loans were easy.

I did a quick purchase loan over the Holiday weekend (the only closing I did) did I do it for the listed price (no) they met my fee (thank you SLB) It was 6 miles from my home 30 pages. Total time with print, travel and sign and dump in the box 1 hour. Now if I worked for XX.XX in an hour or less I call that a win.

When I gave out work to fellow notaries I made 30-40 per closings, I stopped 2 years ago because it was not worth the hassle anymore. SLB is just working hard like the rest of us and if you lump them like Service Link or other low ballers that is your choice.

I've had no issues with them and would continue to keep working with them when available.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/4/08 7:21am
Msg #249929

Re: I wanted to stay out of all of this

Mike, my point was about her offering $50 for purchases and seeming to think that's an acceptable fee. I've never looked at her web site but hiding her rates or not also isn't the issue. $50 for a purchase is the issue. I'd take a purchase from her - if she paid the fair and acceptable fee for the responsibility involved - $200+ depending on what is required. Again, purchases should be a snap for us at the table. Reality is the person sitting at the table 'coordinating' the efforts of everyone else involved in the process had better know the entire process from start to finish and realize what and why everyone else is there - if not, it will be a loooong closing while they are on the phone getting instructions every step of the way - or as in my case one time, while they waited for me to return when they threw the 'point and sign notary' out of the building.

CA and the other escrow states (I believe without looking less than 10 states) handle closings differently than the other title or table funding states.

Reply by desktopfull on 6/4/08 8:01am
Msg #249935

Re: I wanted to stay out of all of this, BUT

None of you seem to understand what SLB is referring to on this $50.00 purchase. This is not a regular purchase closing, this is a cash deal, the buyer signs a handful of docs (I've never had more than 10 pages) you notarize usually only the Warranty Deed, they hand you a check for the full amount of purchase and you walk out the door in less than 10 minutes. This takes less time that getting a Living Will or Health Directives signed and notarized. You actually spend more time filling out the FED EX slip than doing the closing. I haven't worked for SLB for a while now because I went out and got my own clients and I don't work for many SS's anymore.

SLB usually pays more for a purchase closing than a refi when you are handling the buyer and seller and the property is being financed. Because you are making the seller's copy of the docs they are signing also they take more time at the table since it's a final deal. Sherry has always been fair with her signing agents and always pays on time. If you want to take the time and spend the money to get your own clients that's fine, but don't condemn her because she put in the leg work to get clients and then hires someone else to perform the work. She certainly deserves a fee for doing this. Many NSA's just aren't good sales people and prefer to just do the closings, which the SS's provide for them. Each of us has our own little niche in this business. JMO

Reply by PAW on 6/4/08 9:37am
Msg #249952

I want to do your cash deals.

The shortest cash deal I had was 20 minutes. No contested fees, but it took about 10 minutes to review and validate the HUD and approve the survey. Most cash deals with Seller's only is about 15 minutes, but Buyer's can take a very long time. I guess on average, with Buyer's only, it's about 30 minutes, depending on who's there. With Buyers and Sellers, and no problems, it takes about 45 minutes.

I noticed in your statement you said, "... this is a cash deal, the buyer signs a handful of docs ... you notarize usually only the Warranty Deed ..." With a buyer only, the Warranty Deed isn't signed or notarized. That's done on the seller's side.

Reply by desktopfull on 6/5/08 12:15am
Msg #250052

Re: I want to do your cash deals.

Your right, should have had my coffee first this morning before responding. I notarize a signature name/Id affidavit. These cash deals are usually foreclosures that have gone back to the plaintiff's attorney and the buyer (an investor) has made a deal with them to take the property off the lender's hands. The buyer is always there with a cashier's check and can't sign the papers fast enough, fax the papers and copy of check to the lender and the lender's representative hands the buyer the keys. In and out in 10 minutes.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/4/08 1:26pm
Msg #249984

I understand,

absolutely. What you are describing is the way it 'should' happen. It seldom does. The 'elusive' seller's signed HUD ... the no show listing agent because he's not coming until that 'elusive' HUD shows up. Oops, he's also got the deposit check!!! Out of state/town title companies not communicating with the realtors and trouble with the local customs for commissions, clearance certs, transfer taxes, etc. I do plenty of these and do not think I EVER walked out in 10 minutes. Again, the responsibility to 'coordinate' everything at the table for a purchase is not a $50 job.

Reply by SLB SIGNING SERVICES on 2/4/13 4:43pm
Msg #453963

Update on SLB and it's rates

BTW: the original quote of $50 (2006 rate) was for a Cash Purchas, usually less than 30 pages.

2011: Now our base payment for a cash purchase is $70.00
base payment for single loan closing is: $75 + $25 for email docs = $100.00

Reply by ZeeCA on 6/3/08 10:21am
Msg #249827

GEEZ More free advertising for this SS n/m

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/3/08 10:24am
Msg #249829

Z - hadn't thought of it like that. Hmmm. n/m

Reply by NCLisa on 6/3/08 11:05am
Msg #249833

A purchase should always PAY MORE than a refi

no matter how many pages! There are no recission dates and "do overs" with a purchase. There are a ton of things that can go wrong, and since here in NC they need to be recorded afterwards, that means I should be getting about $200 at least to close a purchase.

Reply by SueW/Tn on 6/3/08 1:32pm
Msg #249856

I've worked for SLB many times and

for me they've always offered/paid/agreed on a fee that was acceptable to me. I've never had a problem with the staff and payment has always been rapid. Having said that I would NEVER consider any kind of purchase other than courier service for $50. I can take that a step further, because of all the BS involved with a purchase I've turned down every single one over the past 12 months! Give me $300, a roll of duct tape for the realtors mouths, a bottle of tylenol for my headache, a tank of gas and maybe a picnic basket full of my favorite things and MAYBE I'll take it. Sheesh! I take my hat off to any SA that welcomes these pitas!

Reply by PAW on 6/3/08 1:53pm
Msg #249860

I'll take all the purchases I can get.

As long as they meet my fee! Purchases can be, and often are, long and sometimes utter drudgery. For that, I expect equitable compensation.

When the housing market was at its all-time high, better than half of my signings were purchases. Hopefully, soon it will be again.

Reply by Vince/KS on 6/3/08 2:47pm
Msg #249866

Re: I'll take all the purchases I can get.

Did a purchase yesterday in the new owners office (not nearby) for a home in my area. They bought it at a foreclosure auction. There were only two bidders. Appraised value $295,000. First bid was $215, second was $218 (my bo), then $219 and my borrower got it for $220,000. While it was bought "as-is" the owners on this three year old home were retired with no pets or kids. The house was and is move in ready with a newly refinished basement. The borrower said they were looking in the neighborhood when they saw the auction sign and decided to take a chance.

So we may see more of these...

Reply by Teresa/FL on 6/3/08 2:01pm
Msg #249862

Sue - I have a purchase closing scheduled for tomorrow

and another one scheduled for Friday, both for different TCs who are willing to pay what I consider a fair fee for the services involved. I have worked for both companies before so we all know what to expect. Of course the borrowers are always the wild card in each transaction.

I am very leary of accepting purchase closings from companies I have not dealt with before, but ask a lot of questions to get a handle on the full scope of the transaction before I quote a fee. Then I do a search on NotRot to see if there are any negative posts.

The closing tomorrow is a Provident Funding loan. I understand their requirements and have $500K in Professional Liability/E & O Insurance. I will not be dating the TIL for the borrower, I never do even though I usually have the borrowers use my pens so all the ink is the same.

Reply by jba/fl on 6/3/08 11:13pm
Msg #249920

Re: I've worked for SLB many times and

"a roll of duct tape for the realtors mouths,"

Ah, yes, if this demand were heard! The only time I have had a realtor who didn't talk, talk, talk was when I had her check in my hand. She really facilitated with me on that one. LOL

Reply by MW/VA on 6/3/08 4:09pm
Msg #249881

Thanks for being upfront about your fees. There are many, as obvious from the posts, that bash ss. It's still a choice. We are independent contractors, and, as such, accept work from whomever we can come to terms with. If they feel insulted by your fees, they don't need to take the work--period!! For example, I'd never worked for Nations Direct, who pays $40.
No point arguing about the ss getting a cut. I'd like to be paid based on a percentage of what the broker is making!!!!!

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/3/08 4:47pm
Msg #249886

Exactly MW/VA...

**There are many, as obvious from the posts, that bash ss.**

It's here every day. It will remain here. It is not a secret...but the drama continues.

Reply by MW/VA on 6/4/08 7:41am
Msg #249933

That assumes all ss are bad. I have a few that I work for regularly who pay me fairly and are a significant percentage of my business. Also, be careful, there are a lot of people in the business who bash notaries. There are those among us that deserve it for the sloppy work they do. There is always good & bad in everything.