Posted by LarryTN on 6/12/08 3:03pm
Msg #251067

Marital Documents

I have a signing today in TN and need a question answered from someone in TN. I know the spouse must sign all marital documetns, but the lender is telling me the spouse does not sign anything her name doesn't apear on including the DOT.
Need some input ASAP...I have never done a signing where the spouse was left off the DOT unless they were divorced.

Reply by Sylvia_FL on 6/12/08 3:18pm
Msg #251070

Ask the title company
Even if we know it is a requirement for a spouse to sign certain documents it isn't up to us to make the decision for them to sign. There may be circumstances we are unaware of.
Having someone sign a legal document without the Ok could be construed as UPL.

Reply by Negrete on 6/12/08 3:20pm
Msg #251071

Don't know TN law , but some states let the borrower sign there documents WITHOUT the spouse if it is an Investment property.

Again, not up on TN laws.

Anthony J Negrete
Negrete's Notary Service Inc.

www.bofanotary.com

Reply by LarryTN on 6/12/08 3:23pm
Msg #251074

It's not an investment loan. The spouse is quit claiming to her husband ....would that have any bearing on whether or not she signs the DOT? I thought state law required the spouse to sign the DOT regardless!
Thanks

Reply by LarryTN on 6/12/08 3:20pm
Msg #251072

I spoke to the LO and told him I had never had an instance where the spouse did not sign, but that I would do as directed even thought I have never done this before! I am waiting on his call back.
Thanks Sylvia

Reply by LarryTN on 6/12/08 3:26pm
Msg #251075

Just received a call from the LO telling me to NOT have wife sign anything...marital or otherwise!
Thanks

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/12/08 4:22pm
Msg #251093

She is 'Quitting' any 'Claim' she may or may not have in the property...meaning she doesn't own it.... so why would she have to sign a DOT on property she doesn't own?

Reply by dickb/wi on 6/12/08 5:26pm
Msg #251101

in wisconsin even if she quit claimed her interest in the property and it was their homestead she would still have to sign the mortgage....if she didn't they would only be able to foreclose the husbands interest and they woukld have to move in with wife....why?...because we are a "marital property state".....that means that all income [no matter where it comes from] is marital property and when that income is used to make the house payments it reverts to marital property even if she signed a way her interet......

Reply by LarryTN on 6/12/08 7:58pm
Msg #251113

That's exactly what I'm saying here. State law requires the spouse to sign the DOT. I have completed the signing and did exactly as I was told. Now what do you want to bet I will be called to go back out and get all of the documents signed again?
TN is a dower state and that means the spouse must acknowledge anything his/her spouse signs pertaining to a mortgage. It's not my opinion, nor is it my rules, it is the law of this state.
I can't figure what part of this these notaries on here do not understand!
I did what was asked of me, but in the long run it will probably cost the LO more fees to correct what I indicated to them to begin with!
Thanks for the input.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/12/08 8:59pm
Msg #251119

...I can't figure what part of this these notaries on here do not understand!...

We do understand that Larry. We also understand you are not the borrower's lawyer, the lender's lawyer or the title company's lawyer. If it's wrong, it's on them. Your only 'input' on the docs is to do as you did - question something that you knew wasn't the norm. You were given an answer. If it's going to cost them more in the long run so be it - you tried to 'help' but other than that it's totally out of your control.

Reply by dickb/wi on 6/12/08 9:33pm
Msg #251126

make sure they will pay you 2 full fees in writing...... n/m

Reply by LynnNC on 6/13/08 5:14pm
Msg #251230

I often find that the non-borrowing spouse's name is not on the TIL and I have them sign it anyway...so, I guess that is the UPL. Before I began doing so, I had a large well-known title company make me go back out to have a TIL signed when the non-borrowing spouse's name wasn't on it as they said I "should have known" as an experienced NSA". Also, often the non-borrowing spouse's name is not on a RTC.

It is a fine line between UPL and doing what we are expected to do as experienced NSAs.

Reply by sue_pa on 6/12/08 4:20pm
Msg #251092

this is NONE of your business. You saw something you didn't think was correct. You did the right thing and questioned it. The person who owns the docs - the lender, told you what to do. Why are you even thinking about this any further? Do you think as a 'signing agent', you have more authority than the lender and their compliance department (i.e., lawyers)? We NEVER decide what gets signed, even if we've seen it thousands of times previously.

Reply by Lee/AR on 6/12/08 4:25pm
Msg #251094

Sue is 'righter' than I. n/m

Reply by LarryTN on 6/12/08 4:40pm
Msg #251095

All I can say to your response is: Would you knowingly notarize a document that would have flaws in it, or even be illegal without hesitation?
I did question the LO and was told to do as they say. I will do as they say, but I have recorded all of the directions because I have a feeling (and the signing agency does too) that I will be making another trip!
The state of TN requires all spousal documents be signed by the spouse, but as I said, I will do as I'm told.

Reply by BrendaTx on 6/12/08 6:33pm
Msg #251103

**Would you knowingly notarize a document that would have flaws in it, or even be illegal without hesitation?**

Yes. I am there to notarize a person's signature who is either making an acknowledgment or swearing to an affidavit, not there to practice law (decide right/wrong).

I would not notarize a blatantly false statement. Not the same...you are dealing with an acknowledgment...totally different act. The person is acknowledging they signed their name to a document. You notarize the signature.

There are tons of things about loans that we do not know...even lawyers don't know...unless they specialize in finance and real estate there's a lot of stuff out there they never see.

Reply by JanetK_CA on 6/12/08 9:50pm
Msg #251129

Jus making the determination that a document has flaws in it is UPL. It might help to think in terms of there being a boundary around the notary certificate. If it's inside the boundary, it's up to us to make sure the notarization complies with our state laws. Outside of that, it's not our call. Like everyone else says, you took an extra step to inquire and bring the situation to someone's attention. That's where your job ends.

Reply by desktopfull on 6/12/08 10:28pm
Msg #251130

You are notarizing a signature, not a document and are supposed to follow the instructions that come with the docs from the TC and Lender. If you feel there is an error then check with the TC and do what they tell you. You're overstepping your authority as a NSA when you are deciding the legality of a document, that is, unless you are an attorney hired by the lender or TC. If there are mistakes that need fixing later, they will wind up paying you for the extra trips, won't they.

Reply by LKT/CA on 6/12/08 5:13pm
Msg #251098

Sue_pa.....5 Star Post! n/m